Match-up Discussion Lolish Zatanna MU Chart

[DarkFire*]

I guess I thought it was finally my turn to do this lol. I originally made detailed explanations with each character, but now that I think about it posting all that right off the bat would take the fun out of discussing this awesomesauceness.

Although, yes, it is also very lolish.

vs Aquaman 2-8
vs Ares 6-4
vs Bane 7-3
vs Batgirl 4-6
vs Batman 5-5
vs Black Adam 4-6
vs Catwoman 5-5
vs Cyborg 6-4
vs Deathstroke 5-5
vs Doomsday 4-6
vs Flash 5-5
vs Green Arrow 6-4 (possibly 5-5)
vs Green Lantern 7-3
vs Harley Quinn 6-4
vs Hawkgirl 5-5 (possibly 6-4)
vs Joker 7-3
vs Killer Frost 5-5
vs Lex Luthor 5-5
vs Lobo 5-5
vs Martian Manhunter 3-7
vs Nightwing 6-4
vs Raven 4-6
vs Scorpion 6-4
vs Shazam 6-4
vs Sinestro 5-5
vs Solomon Grundy 6-4
vs Superman 5-5
vs Wonder Woman 4-6
vs Zatanna 10-0 (If you pick the default black costume, cuz she's hotter. If you choose the blue one then it's 0-10. Both are hot, but the black one is just hotter)
vs Zod 5-5

Winning: 11 (no I'm not counting Zatanna lol)
Losing: 7
Even: 12

IMO, Zatanna is a very good, solid upper-mid tier character in this game. If I were to give her a spot on the tier list, she'd fit here:

Martian Manhunter
Aquaman
Batgirl
Zod
Flash
Sinestro
Bane
Wonder Woman
Superman
Doomsday
Deathstroke
Batman/Zatanna

This puts her at the 12-13 range. The reason I put her with Batman is because, in terms of matchups, I think she is about equal with him, or possibly a little better. This is because she, like Batman, only has one 3-7, however, she also has a couple 7-3's while Batman doesn't, and these 7-3's are "tournament characters" like Bane and Green Lantern.Though, that 2-8 she has that Batman lacks really does put a strain. So I think they are about equal and are right next to each other on the tier list; either Batman is 12 and Zatanna is 13 or Zatanna is 13 and Batman is 12.

Discuss

 

[SaltShaker]

Can only speak on Raven, which I agree with.

 

[Awkward Sloth]

The Hawkgirl MU is at least 4-6 in Hawkgirl's Favor.

@Espio
@Vak Phoenix

Can yall explain why it's so bad for Zee for me please?

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I disagree with Deathstroke and Hawkgirl, I think both are 4-6. Hawkgirl's mobility is amazing and we can't stop her from moving all over the screen all day, trait is whatever for Hawkgirl, she can WE through rings and get in/evade fullscreen frametraps at the same time.
Deatstroke is just really fast for her, he outfootsies her, he can oki her, he can jump for free, he can punish pullet master at certain ranges and can interrupt her zoning easily.

 

[Magnum Magpie]

Could someone explain the Wonderwoman zatanna mu more to me?

 

[DarksydeDash]

Whats Zatanna's best way to deal with air dash jump ins? From what I've experienced she gets blown up all the time.

 

[Eldriken]

Why does Doomsday beat Zatanna instead of it being even? I used to believe it was in Doomsday's favor, but I feel it's 5-5. Is it because we can get around her zoning easier than most due to MB Venom? That's all I can really think of. Our oki doesn't work the best on her due to her stupid ass teleport and she can nullify our trait by teleporting away as well.

It's like it's 4-6 if Doomsday has meter and 5-5 if he doesn't.

Maybe I'm just not knowledgeable enough at the MU. So, feel free to enlighten me.

 

[Shaazzyam]

vs Batman *4-6

 

[Espio]

The Hawkgirl MU is at least 4-6 in Hawkgirl's Favor.

@Espio
@Vak Phoenix

Can yall explain why it's so bad for Zee for me please?

Zatanna has a huge problem with mobility heavy characters, who don't have to put up with her zoning and outfootsie her (not a coincidence Doomsday, Martian Manhunter and Wonder Woman are losing match ups for her).

Hawkgirl fits all three of those criteria rather well. She is one of the most mobile characters in the game and Zatanna cannot really stop that. Hawkgirl's trait negates, rings, puppet master, fireball etc nearly everywhere on the screen except full screen and teleporting backwards can be kept up with due to Hawkgirl's trait, mace charge and mobility with MB mace toss and so forth. So Hawkgirl has an easier time zoning her than Zatanna does zoning Hawkgirl.

Up close Hawkgirl's down 1 and down 2 alone outfootsie Zatanna's stubby down 1,normals and are faster than her standing 3 as well so she can pester her to death. Hawkgirl is the Queen of disrespecting frame traps with wing evade and mace charge as well.

She can wing evade rings to get in, negate chip and build meter all at the same time.

In order for it to be 5-5, Zatanna would have to have something to create an equalizing check on Hawkgirl. Zatanna doesn't truly win anywhere on the screen. I think it's at best 6-4 Hawkgirl, could be worse, but it's one of those match ups people barely play, but I've had the opportunity to play a lot of Zatannas: Sunfire, Mr. Mileena, Birdsongs, Guamokun, you etc.

 

[Drizzle]

Could someone explain the Wonderwoman zatanna mu more to me?

Basically, rings get parried, IADG is free and Zatanna's post-IADG game is terrible. Zat obviously loses in footsies so all she has going for her is trait and teleporting away. Unfortunately that doesn't win games so it's a struggle.

 

[ATP2014]

Sinestro gets two spots in top 10, confirmed top tier.

I personally think GL loses 2-8, but agreed that it is a terrible MU. My only question is why Black Adam is considered a losing MU. Because of Divekick?

 

[Magnum Magpie]

Basically, rings get parried, IADG is free and Zatanna's post-IADG game is terrible. Zat obviously loses in footsies so all she has going for her is trait and teleporting away. Unfortunately that doesn't win games so it's a struggle.

Even tiara beats trait because its two hits and what is IADG???

 

[Awkward Sloth]

Even tiara beats trait because its two hits and what is IADG???

Instant air Demi-goddess

 

[DarkFire*]

I have some more things to say buuut I'm on the Wii U gamepad right now so it'll take forever to write it all out lol but for now let me just say this. Zatanna, IMO, can handle aerial characters fine. Her D2 I've found blows up air dashes a lot but I seldom see it being used (tho to be fair I rarely see Zatanna being used period lol). Also, as I mentioned in another thread, she really is not that bad up close. If she gets you in the corner chances are she'll be able to go to town.

I have more things to say regarding DD HG and DS but since this took like 10 minutes to write I'll def reply to everyone when I get my computer so I can explain further

 

[dagga]

I think your chart is spot-on. Superman has a slight edge maybe 6-4 at worst.

Also Blue Zatanna is hottest.

 

[Phosferrax]

Imo she has a disadvantage against superman, she has a big disadvantage against raven, she goes even with DD, possibly has an advantage over lobo, goes even with grundy, has a disadvantage against DS and I'm unsure of beating shazam.

 

[Magnum Magpie]

Imo she has a disadvantage against superman, she has a big disadvantage against raven, she goes even with DD, possibly has an advantage over lobo, goes even with grundy, has a disadvantage against DS and I'm unsure of beating shazam.

Shazam wins when up is zats face, zat win with trait zoning

 

[Magnum Magpie]

Sinestro gets two spots in top 10, confirmed top tier.

I personally think GL loses 2-8, but agreed that it is a terrible MU. My only question is why Black Adam is considered a losing MU. Because of Divekick?

I categorise black adam and raven in the same group, because unlike aquaman and Mmh where you don't really need to change the way you play them against zatanna, black adam and raven have to change how they play against Zatanna or else you will lose... In other words, with aquaman and Mmh you don't exactly need to know the match up to win, but if you don't know how to play the match up with raven and black adam you will lose to a winning match up

 

[EMPR_MURK]

I agree with the NW number

 

[Laos_boy]

Zatanna main problem is her ass mobility. Yes teleport is good but more people need to read teleport away with fwd advancing moves or projectiles. Its like baiting zods back dash. And on wake up y'all respect teleport way too much. If you have a good neutral jump, take advantage.

She also loses to footsies. See deg vs Ducky.

Anyways
She loses to hawkgirl, wowo, raven, doomsday, and the obvious footsie monsters Aquaman and Martian.
Night wing is the exceptions since he's gets trumped by zoning. Sinestro is a weird one aswell his footsies are strong but o feel like zatanna can win easily. Bane is weird but obvious why she wins same with GL. They great footsie tools but she breaks there main game. Knock down. Also zatanna has better mobility than GL. I'll maybe go in depth later

 

[bdizzle2700]

Why does she spank bane but loses to DD? I'm a DD main so I'm just a curious George.

 

[Shaazzyam]

Zatanna main problem is her ass mobility. Yes teleport is good but more people need to read teleport away with fwd advancing moves or projectiles. Its like baiting zods back dash. And on wake up y'all respect teleport way too much. If you have a good neutral jump, take advantage.

She also loses to footsies. See deg vs Ducky.

Anyways
She loses to hawkgirl, wowo, raven, doomsday, and the obvious footsie monsters Aquaman and Martian.
Night wing is the exceptions since he's gets trumped by zoning. Sinestro is a weird one aswell his footsies are strong but o feel like zatanna can win easily. Bane is weird but obvious why she wins same with GL. They great footsie tools but she breaks there main game. Knock down. Also zatanna has better mobility than GL. I'll maybe go in depth later

 

[BunLantern]

Idk man, I think she might actually beat GL 8-2. She just has so many tools that are great against him and his mix up game is almost non existent in this MU (if he can even manage a knockdown, and then at that point you probably want to go for full damage) due to teleport and full screen control from hats, puppet master, trait, and MB fireball.

Sinestro is probably 5-5 though

 

[DarkFire*]

The Hawkgirl MU is at least 4-6 in Hawkgirl's Favor.

@Espio
@Vak Phoenix

Can yall explain why it's so bad for Zee for me please?

I disagree with Deathstroke and Hawkgirl, I think both are 4-6. Hawkgirl's mobility is amazing and we can't stop her from moving all over the screen all day, trait is whatever for Hawkgirl, she can WE through rings and get in/evade fullscreen frametraps at the same time.
Deatstroke is just really fast for her, he outfootsies her, he can oki her, he can jump for free, he can punish pullet master at certain ranges and can interrupt her zoning easily.

Zatanna has a huge problem with mobility heavy characters, who don't have to put up with her zoning and outfootsie her (not a coincidence Doomsday, Martian Manhunter and Wonder Woman are losing match ups for her).

Hawkgirl fits all three of those criteria rather well. She is one of the most mobile characters in the game and Zatanna cannot really stop that. Hawkgirl's trait negates, rings, puppet master, fireball etc nearly everywhere on the screen except full screen and teleporting backwards can be kept up with due to Hawkgirl's trait, mace charge and mobility with MB mace toss and so forth. So Hawkgirl has an easier time zoning her than Zatanna does zoning Hawkgirl.

Up close Hawkgirl's down 1 and down 2 alone outfootsie Zatanna's stubby down 1,normals and are faster than her standing 3 as well so she can pester her to death. Hawkgirl is the Queen of disrespecting frame traps with wing evade and mace charge as well.

She can wing evade rings to get in, negate chip and build meter all at the same time.

In order for it to be 5-5, Zatanna would have to have something to create an equalizing check on Hawkgirl. Zatanna doesn't truly win anywhere on the screen. I think it's at best 6-4 Hawkgirl, could be worse, but it's one of those match ups people barely play, but I've had the opportunity to play a lot of Zatannas: Sunfire, Mr. Mileena, Birdsongs, Guamokun, you etc.

I respect you guys' opinion, but here is my reasoning for Hawkgirl. I admit that I don't play this MU very often, but when I do I feel that while it's true that Hawkgirl has great mobility and a lot of plus things that Zatanna has to respect, Zatanna still has answers, and Hawkgirl does have to put up with her zoning. For one thing, Hawkgirl's trait is essentially off limits in this match, or else she's eating a ring into puppet master or trait shots. I think this matchup is similar to the Black Adam MU, the main (and very important) difference being that you can't zone Black Adam because of divekick nor can you use trait due to his attack that comes out from under your feet, but you can do both against Hawkgirl because she doesn't have either attack. Not only that, but you can bait a mace charge from Hawkgirl and punish with a J3; if the Hawkgirl player does mace charge to try and capture your teleport, then you can do a neutral J3 to counter it (also similar to Black Adam's divekick). I think this MU is 5-5, but if anyone does win it probably would be Zatanna in my honest opinion.

Also, I believe DS is a 5-5 primarily due to the following:

- He can't really oki her unless he is in the corner, and even then she can MB Teleport to (for the most part) get away safely
- Neither character can zone the other
- Standing 3 punishes his sword flip into a full combo
- He can't jump in at her for free; her D2 is very good for keeping him out of the air; even his J3 which is very good must have spot on timing to beat her D2

Could someone explain the Wonderwoman zatanna mu more to me?

@Drizzle essentially hit the nail on the head. Thanks bro. But yeah this MU is pretty tough for her, in addition to what Drizzle said, WW will pretty much always have more meter than Zatanna, so she's winning any clashes. She also outdamages, outfootsies, and zoning is essentially shut down due to parry (though to counter this Zatanna can throw a ring over her head to bait a parry and punish it with puppet master, though this is difficult to pull off).

 

[DarkFire*]

Whats Zatanna's best way to deal with air dash jump ins? From what I've experienced she gets blown up all the time.

D2. It comes out fast, and has a deceptively rather large hitbox. Even people like MMH who is regarded as being an excellent air dasher usually eats my D2's fairly consistently when I see him air dashing at me.

Why does Doomsday beat Zatanna instead of it being even? I used to believe it was in Doomsday's favor, but I feel it's 5-5. Is it because we can get around her zoning easier than most due to MB Venom? That's all I can really think of. Our oki doesn't work the best on her due to her stupid ass teleport and she can nullify our trait by teleporting away as well.

It's like it's 4-6 if Doomsday has meter and 5-5 if he doesn't.

Maybe I'm just not knowledgeable enough at the MU. So, feel free to enlighten me.

The MU is not even because Doomsday will pretty much always have meter. He can essentially get in for free and there's not much I can do to stop you. It's not just the fact that you can get around her zoning far easier than most characters, but also adding to that, take into account that the only thing keep this being a 3-7 is the fact my d1 does good work against your trait, and my trait is good for keeping you at bay. But the problem with that is because, like you mentioned, MB venom stops her from getting trait out. You'll either hit me out of it before I can pull out trait, or you'll force me to block, which still knocks me out of trait anyway. Also, it doesn't really matter if you can't oki her, you'll still force her to block MB Venom for days and she won't be able to get away from you to try and zone.