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Enexemander

Enexemander

A Hitbox Pirate - YARRR -
I've been grinding practice mode and I found the light at the end of the tunnel for me for the F213--FBRC--F213 string. I was having immense trouble getting it to jail. I'm going to go over my method for getting it down in case someone else comes along having trouble with it. Hopefully this will help.

This is how I broke it down in my mind-
There are only two ways to mess this up, if your inputs are correct.

Window 1 - Canceling the Fireball at the earliest possible frame
Window 2 - Inputting the string after the cancel so that it comes out at the earliest possible frame.

First, I grabbed a video of it successfully being done after the patch. Thanks to @GreatKungLao for providing the video.

From that, I first checked to see if I was delaying my second string after the cancel. I did this by only looking at my stamina and comparing my Stamina lost to GKL's when he was successfully canceling. It turns out that I wasn't losing more stamina consistently. From this, I could say with reasonable certainty that I was performing Window 2 adequately.

So, the only reasonable thing was to try working on Window 1.
l didn't start this immediately, because with the "Now you have to hold it for X frames" shenanigans, I assumed I was doing it right. I was canceling at the first start up of the fireball I could see.

THIS WAS WRONG.

After spending some time just grinding in the lab while watching Red Hot Sundays, I found that for me the optimal time to cancel the fireball was as Liu's foot from the kick in the F213 string was coming down, right after the block sound. But not directly on the block sound (that's too fast). After discovering that timing, I could get Window 1 and Window 2 fast enough to get F213--FBRC--F213 to jail fairly consistently.

I still have some work to do, but at this point it's refining muscle memory.

Thanks for your help everyone, and hopefully this post helps someone out there.
 
Blewdew

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3

I'm new to lui kang coming from dvorah and with this way it's pretty fun to practise the f213 jail. What do you guys cancel into when your opponent is taking the hits from f213? I don't really know how to maximize damage with it.
 
cR Xarakamaka

cR Xarakamaka

Noob
Blewdew said:

I'm new to lui kang coming from dvorah and with this way it's pretty fun to practise the f213 jail. What do you guys cancel into when your opponent is taking the hits from f213? I don't really know how to maximize damage with it.
Click to expand...
Mid screen meter less f213 bk run uppercut = 25%
Corner
F213 fb rc, f213 bk, f213 low fb = 31%
 
xXxNasHxXx

xXxNasHxXx

Mighty Champion of EarthRealm
Guys we all know LK has some wierd hitbox issues and now this one...
When i try to hit Kotal Kahn's d1 after d1 while Liu Kang is in the air, Neutral Jump Kick hits but when i block immediately after the d1 or block at the very last frame NJK whiffs. This thing needs to be fixed as soon as possible...
 
EntropicByDesign

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
So, I am a Kotal main who's finally 'learning' this damn game. I have kinda decided to pick up aa pocket LK..Not because I'm trying to cover bad MUs or anything but just because I'm the kind of guy that, no matter how much I enjoy a specific character, can't play one character all the time. I have to switch it up and after a LOT of roster hopping, I've found LK to be about as fun as it gets and a very nice counter-point the walking tank that is Kotal. LK feels nimble and light and effortless and I like that a lot.

Now, I originally picked up FF and have been looking it.over some. I've found the execution , for the basic stuff, very easy and his over-all game plan seems pretty straight forward. IAFBs are inconsistent for me but after, I dunno, 20minutes of.practice I'm getting them 3/10, so..guessing I'll lock them down after a couple weeks.

However. I have been told, that DF does everything that FF does, only better, and they both have somewhat similar gameplans.

How true is this?

Ultimately, I will always play what I find more fun, but if DF has a similar gameplan and overall feel, I'd rather just put in the work and learn it. I figured if ask here and see what you all have to say. Is DF just all-around better?
 
cR Xarakamaka

cR Xarakamaka

Noob
EntropicByDesign said:
So, I am a Kotal main who's finally 'learning' this damn game. I have kinda decided to pick up aa pocket LK..Not because I'm trying to cover bad MUs or anything but just because I'm the kind of guy that, no matter how much I enjoy a specific character, can't play one character all the time. I have to switch it up and after a LOT of roster hopping, I've found LK to be about as fun as it gets and a very nice counter-point the walking tank that is Kotal. LK feels nimble and light and effortless and I like that a lot.

Now, I originally picked up FF and have been looking it.over some. I've found the execution , for the basic stuff, very easy and his over-all game plan seems pretty straight forward. IAFBs are inconsistent for me but after, I dunno, 20minutes of.practice I'm getting them 3/10, so..guessing I'll lock them down after a couple weeks.

However. I have been told, that DF does everything that FF does, only better, and they both have somewhat similar gameplans.

How true is this?

Ultimately, I will always play what I find more fun, but if DF has a similar gameplan and overall feel, I'd rather just put in the work and learn it. I figured if ask here and see what you all have to say. Is DF just all-around better?
Click to expand...
Learn both , they cover all the mus better than dualist, I use flame fist for multiple match ups too
 
Genei Jin

Genei Jin

Noob
EntropicByDesign said:
So, I am a Kotal main who's finally 'learning' this damn game. I have kinda decided to pick up aa pocket LK..Not because I'm trying to cover bad MUs or anything but just because I'm the kind of guy that, no matter how much I enjoy a specific character, can't play one character all the time. I have to switch it up and after a LOT of roster hopping, I've found LK to be about as fun as it gets and a very nice counter-point the walking tank that is Kotal. LK feels nimble and light and effortless and I like that a lot.

Now, I originally picked up FF and have been looking it.over some. I've found the execution , for the basic stuff, very easy and his over-all game plan seems pretty straight forward. IAFBs are inconsistent for me but after, I dunno, 20minutes of.practice I'm getting them 3/10, so..guessing I'll lock them down after a couple weeks.

However. I have been told, that DF does everything that FF does, only better, and they both have somewhat similar gameplans.

How true is this?

Ultimately, I will always play what I find more fun, but if DF has a similar gameplan and overall feel, I'd rather just put in the work and learn it. I figured if ask here and see what you all have to say. Is DF just all-around better?
Click to expand...
Sounds like me. My main is Kotal Kahn (war god) but I also picked up a pocket Liu Kang just because he is so fun to use.

DF can do everything FF can do but his execution is much harder. However, his pressure game is wayy better and imo way more fun.
 
EntropicByDesign

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Genei Jin said:
Sounds like me. My main is Kotal Kahn (war god) but I also picked up a pocket Liu Kang just because he is so fun to use.

DF can do everything FF can do but his execution is much harder. However, his pressure game is wayy better and imo way more fun.
Click to expand...
Yeah I spent ~15m in the lab earlier with DF and the FBRC stuff is pretty fun. Now, with 15m of practice I'm not landing combos and such, I was just tinkering with random starters into FBRC into random link strings just to mess with the timing and execution of the cancel buts its very fun and not very hard at all from what I can tell. I'm hitting it 40-50% of the time fast enough that I successfully combo in to the next string. I think I'll dedicate some time each day to practicing with DF until I'm 100%, then take him for a spin in some actual matches.

That's one thing that's so nice about Kotal, his execution is *easy*, at least in SG and the rewards are insane. Almost anything in the corner leads to 50% if I have choke charges and a bar and midscreen with a bar is higher 30s at the absolute worst and lower 40s on average with high 40's to low 50's possible depending on conditions, with bar, lol. All that with unoptimized combos, I lose a % here and there for the sake of reliability.

At the same time though, that easy execution is great, but sometimes it's nice to have those characters that are technically demanding - when that demand opens up the opportunities that DF seems to, cancelling strings for + , various links, etc. The variation feels very open to interpretation, and seems like, once you really master the FBRCs it becomes very creative, putting together varying offense on the fly.
 
Enexemander

Enexemander

A Hitbox Pirate - YARRR -
That's the right idea, Entropic. One thing I will say is that you need to master making F213 FRBRC F213 a true blockstring (or F213 FBRC F12 while you work on execution). Otherwise someone that knows the match up will armor through your FBRC's for free and start blowing you up.

That's what I do, anyway. I never respect a DF Liu's cancels until they can prove they can make them true blockstrings. When you can is where the true games begin. *evil smile*
 
GreatKungLao

GreatKungLao

LiuTana
Enexemander said:
That's the right idea, Entropic. One thing I will say is that you need to master making F213 FRBRC F213 a true blockstring (or F213 FBRC F12 while you work on execution). Otherwise someone that knows the match up will armor through your FBRC's for free and start blowing you up.

That's what I do, anyway. I never respect a DF Liu's cancels until they can prove they can make them true blockstrings. When you can is where the true games begin. *evil smile*
Click to expand...
Actually the gap in FBRC when you try to F213 can be used in Liu Kang's advantage. I've learned that against Kung Lao. When the player I was fighting against showed me that he mashes EX spin during my F213 FBRC all the time, I started canceling to block, which led me to catching his EX spin and punish very much. After seeing that you can do that, the opponent will start respect your pressure even with gap and become scared of hitting you on block with unsafe armor.
 
cR Xarakamaka

cR Xarakamaka

Noob
GreatKungLao said:
Actually the gap in FBRC when you try to F213 can be used in Liu Kang's advantage. I've learned that against Kung Lao. When the player I was fighting against showed me that he mashes EX spin during my F213 FBRC all the time, I started canceling to block, which led me to catching his EX spin and punish very much. After seeing that you can do that, the opponent will start respect your pressure even with gap and become scared of hitting you on block with unsafe armor.
Click to expand...
If your doing that though, I hope Liu kang mains can master f213 fbrc by now , but may aswell do b12 and get the extra chip and hit confirm into combo rather than the opponent having an option to escape if he knows ur pausing to punish ex spin
 
Matador Fiend

Matador Fiend

Noob
I figure this is the best place to ask, but what is the best way to approach this mu as a cassie player? I play a guy whose got a really solid flame fist kang and im not sure how to handle him up close. He can armor through my strings with windmill punch for free since even if its baited, its safe on block due to cancelling it. Full screen is bad news since he can harass with low fireball iaf all day. i found there is a hole where i can flipkick between windmill to backfist cancel, but it seems you cant interrupt windmill to low fireball. He also will occassionally do enhanced windmill to enhanced windmill which is safe and breaks armor but i feel like thats a gimmick that i havent deciphered yet. Sorry for the format, my phone is being dumb. Any advice?
 
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