What's new

General/Other - Kotal Kahn Kotal Kahn General Discussion

What is your favorite Variation?

  • War God

    Votes: 170 42.0%
  • Sun God

    Votes: 139 34.3%
  • Blood God

    Votes: 61 15.1%
  • All Equally

    Votes: 35 8.6%

  • Total voters
    405

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
I'm currently using blood god most of the time, I think the variation is great for pacing the tempo of the fight. You can drop crystal totem when you got the enemy on the defensive and you want to deal extra damage. And if you are pressured just drop obsidian totem. Blood god's damage is massive compared to the other variations.

The only problem I have currently with it is blood totem is broken on PC (and maybe consoles, I can't check because I don't own one). Blood totem only depletes the enemies meter with hits from 1 and 3. 2 and 4 do not work and causes the enemy to gain meter like normal.

Edit:

Testing further, the only hits that seem to really work with blood totem are d1 and d3. All other normals will delete the enemy's meter on the first attack and then cease to work after that.
Same. I think blood god is highly underrated. A couple of pc players posted about the blood totem glitch earlier. I haven't had a chance to test the ps4 version of blood totem yet, and if it is broken on ps4, I have never noticed because I have not yet incorporated blood totem into my game. I'm going to check it out later tonight or tomorrow morning.
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
It is -5 in the current PC version of the game, I tested it against Kung Lao spin and Kano UpBall, with only the EX spin punishing it.

I don't know if that has changed in the patches console have released.

EDIT: I want footage of people successfully using sun ray to counter zoning.. I've tried it and it just doesn't work for me. It is too slow and heals back too little to be worth trading with the projectile coming at you and possible being punished with full combo by some characters because it is just that reactable/slow.

I don't completely doubt it could be effective but obviously I am using it wrong and need to be shown how to use it properly.
The best two ways to use sun ray/god ray are:

1) to pressure an opponent after a hard knockdown (for example: b122, sun ray)
2) to self heal after a hard knockdown (for example, b122, close sun ray)

I don't believe it is practical or wise to try and counter zone with sun ray/god ray. The frame data just doesn't seem to make that strategy viable. I tend to use it for self-healing the vast majority of the time.
 

regulas

Your Emporer
I love spamming the fuck out of the command grab and making my opponents be on their knees, its so fucking satisfying online.
It is awesome but unfortunately this works partly just because there's enough delay for it's speed not to matter. Against a lot of aggressive characters they can often just hit you before it lands otherwise.
 

VenomX-90

"On your Knees!"
It is awesome but unfortunately this works partly just because there's enough delay for it's speed not to matter. Against a lot of aggressive characters they can often just hit you before it lands otherwise.
Yeah, I wish they would have turned that move into a fatality where he does the same animation but drains the person soul and they explode after.
 

regulas

Your Emporer
Same. I think blood god is highly underrated. A couple of pc players posted about the blood totem glitch earlier. I haven't had a chance to test the ps4 version of blood totem yet, and if it is broken on ps4, I have never noticed because I have not yet incorporated blood totem into my game. I'm going to check it out later tonight or tomorrow morning.
Blood god has the problem that you have no tools or options. I've toyed around with it to try and make it work and it gets some hilarious results sometimes but at the end of the day you keep encountering the same problem that you have so few options you can really do at a given moment, since your attack options are basically just a few regular normals. At bare minimum it would need it's f1b2 and b122 strings to be completely safe on block (-5 or better) for me to see Blood god as being viable, because without these better normals it's just too limiting. War god in contrast is safe for everything that can be cancelled.

It is a great way to boost your fundamentals though since you basically lack any special options to attack with much of the time.
 
The best two ways to use sun ray/god ray are:

1) to pressure an opponent after a hard knockdown (for example: b122, sun ray)
2) to self heal after a hard knockdown (for example, b122, close sun ray)

I don't believe it is practical or wise to try and counter zone with sun ray/god ray. The frame data just doesn't seem to make that strategy viable. I tend to use it for self-healing the vast majority of the time.
Even on offense, I never feel like healing or throwing it on my opponent is worth sacrificing the damage from War God df2 AND the oki pressure.... it honestly seems like a useless move. I want it to be useful though, I find it an interesting concept, I need to see some of its use in high level play to really get it I think.
 

regulas

Your Emporer
Even on offense, I never feel like healing or throwing it on my opponent is worth sacrificing the damage from War God df2 AND the oki pressure.... it honestly seems like a useless move. I want it to be useful though, I find it an interesting concept, I need to see some of its use in high level play to really get it I think.
I've seen Rico use both moves very occasionally. Regular sun isnt so good but EX is somewhat usable since it can heal like up to 20% or so. In both cases though it doesn't really change much. They would need to be around 40 frames total time to be usable.
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
Even on offense, I never feel like healing or throwing it on my opponent is worth sacrificing the damage from War God df2 AND the oki pressure.... it honestly seems like a useless move. I want it to be useful though, I find it an interesting concept, I need to see some of its use in high level play to really get it I think.
Well, I use it a lot less when I play War God as opposed to when I play Blood God (which I have played a bunch) or Sun God (which I have barely played). But, there is no way that it is useless. Having a guaranteed heel move is definitely worth something. I highly recommend healing yourself on knockdown every once in a while. It has saved me numerous times in close matches.
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
Blood god has the problem that you have no tools or options. I've toyed around with it to try and make it work and it gets some hilarious results sometimes but at the end of the day you keep encountering the same problem that you have so few options you can really do at a given moment, since your attack options are basically just a few regular normals. At bare minimum it would need it's f1b2 and b122 strings to be completely safe on block (-5 or better) for me to see Blood god as being viable, because without these better normals it's just too limiting. War god in contrast is safe for everything that can be cancelled.

It is a great way to boost your fundamentals though since you basically lack any special options to attack with much of the time.
War God is definitely his strongest overall variation, but I also definitely think Blood God is viable. Essentially, Blood God is all about putting a totem on the screen after every hard knockdown and after every blocked, safe attack, and of course, using parry to stuff wake-ups and interrupt strings.

And you are right, in order to play Blood God effectively, you have to be fundamentally sound. I think the two reasons I enjoy it so much are: 1) It showcases fundamentals, and 2) It is easily his most technical variation, utilizing a unique combination of totem setups and fundamentals.

edit: And I still honestly feel that it has more overall potential than Sun God.
 

ahg1992

Noob
So with all this crying about grandmaster subzero, I thought I'd ask:

In sun/blood god, what tools does kotal have to break out of ice clone pressure?
I know war god has a few moves he can use to punish it, but I'm drawing a complete blank as far as sun/blood go. As far as I can tell, once sub has you in a corner, you might as well put down the pad if you're using sun or blood.
 

BigD

Noob
How does the "Mace parry" work? What are it's limitations? Does it give frame advantage Or is just the damage buff?
 
Last edited:

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
Bloodgod seems to be the only variation that doesnt seem to have a good answer when knocked down., especially in the corner where backdashing is not an options.
Parry seems really hard when your opponent is using muktiple hit strings or special.
Any tips?
 

LeeVanDam

Sun God Advocate
So with all this crying about grandmaster subzero, I thought I'd ask:

In sun/blood god, what tools does kotal have to break out of ice clone pressure?
I know war god has a few moves he can use to punish it, but I'm drawing a complete blank as far as sun/blood go. As far as I can tell, once sub has you in a corner, you might as well put down the pad if you're using sun or blood.
For Sun God, the first thing I'll try in order to escape ice clone pressure will be the EN Sun God Choke. Since it has armor, I'm hoping it will armor through the ice in between block strings. I'll work on that this weekend and see if I can come up with something.
 

regulas

Your Emporer
.
Parry seems really hard when your opponent is using muktiple hit strings or special.
Any tips?
Parry multiple times! Technically you can do this thouhg you may or may not need meter burn versions for some of these. And the dmg bonus then stacks so you caa follow up with a 40%+ uppercut.
 

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
Parry multiple times! Technically you can do this thouhg you may or may not need meter burn versions for some of these. And the dmg bonus then stacks so you caa follow up with a 40%+ uppercut.
Im trying that but even in practise mode i have a hard time parrying more then 2 hits. I think i need to hit the lab abit more for getting a better excecution. :p
 

Beach

La mejor playa
Hey Kotal players! I'm struggling to find a character that feels right after several characters. I watched Mr.Aquaman tear it up as Kotal (Him also being the reason I picked up Ares in Injustice) I have some interest in Kotal. As a former grundy main and a big fan of command throws, I was wondering how Sun God is, does the command grab connect after block strings and such? Is their good pressure he can put out?
 

regulas

Your Emporer
Hey Kotal players! I'm struggling to find a character that feels right after several characters. I watched Mr.Aquaman tear it up as Kotal (Him also being the reason I picked up Ares in Injustice) I have some interest in Kotal. As a former grundy main and a big fan of command throws, I was wondering how Sun God is, does the command grab connect after block strings and such? Is their good pressure he can put out?
Sun god is usable, but sub par to War significantly.

You can tick-throw with the grab but thats about it. The dmg is only good on the level 3 version and still not spectacular, and it's range and 13 frame speed mean it's not outright the best. You otherwise have a good parry move and some ok normal strings but for some reason only War God get's a giant slew of numerous options, while the other two are limited.

They may buff it but in the meantime I would say probably someone like Goro (who has the fastest 7 frame grab) would be a more top grappler.
 

Beach

La mejor playa
Sun god is usable, but sub par to War significantly.

You can tick-throw with the grab but thats about it. The dmg is only good on the level 3 version and still not spectacular, and it's range and 13 frame speed mean it's not outright the best. You otherwise have a good parry move and some ok normal strings but for some reason only War God get's a giant slew of numerous options, while the other two are limited.

They may buff it but in the meantime I would say probably someone like Goro (who has the fastest 7 frame grab) would be a more top grappler.
Does he atleast have a good punish into command grab to build sun stacks?
 

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
Does he atleast have a good punish into command grab to build sun stacks?
Ofcourse sungods command grab is not high damage for lvl 1 but you can get to lvl 3 really fast, and most of your combos give u atleast 40% dmg with 1 bar abd lvl 3. His f2b1 is descent to whiff punish, its a forward moving string wich launches. 114 is good for upclose punish wich can be comboed in commandgrab.
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
Does he atleast have a good punish into command grab to build sun stacks?
He has some VERY good punishes. Kotal is, generally speaking, an awesome punisher. He has high damaging punishes starting with 114 (his fastest and most damaging punisher starter), F1B2, and F2 that can ALL be ended with command grab to level up your grab each time you punish your opponent. So, punishes and building sun stacks is not Sun God's problem.

The problem with both Sun God and Blood God is basically what regulas just wrote: Both variations have very limited options to open people up and are severely lacking in mix-ups . Blood God is designed to compensate for this by using his totems to inflict a ridiculous amount of damage and to take less damage than anyone else on the roster. Sun God is designed to compensate for this by punishing people for blocking his limited mix-ups with his command grab. The problem I see for Sun God, however, is that the command grab just isn't that good. It's a 13 frame startup (not terrible, but not great), its range is decent (but again, not great) and its damage is meh. Maybe I am spoiled from maining Bane, but I just don't think Sun God's command grab is quite as good as it should be. Having made my reservations about Sun God abundantly clear, I think he is hella fun to play and you should definitely check him out if you like command grabs.
 
Last edited:

regulas

Your Emporer
Does he atleast have a good punish into command grab to build sun stacks?
Well you have decent punished in general, and on juggle you can link into the grab.

Ofcourse sungods command grab is not high damage for lvl 1 but you can get to lvl 3 really fast, and most of your combos give u atleast 40% dmg with 1 bar abd lvl 3. His f2b1 is descent to whiff punish, its a forward moving string wich launches. 114 is good for upclose punish wich can be comboed in commandgrab.
the issue is that these combos just come from his base abilities with the throw just being a finisher, which is nothing War doesnt do already. The issue as always with SUn and blood is the limited options to actually use and apply those combo's as the best safe strings aren't cancel-able starters.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
I'd like to see Sun God get a seriously buffed version of Sun/God Ray myself. Frame buff to make it usable in the first place, but have it tied to the stacks as well and decrease the time it's up for each stack, while keeping the same overall damage/healing. You would think Sun God would be able to make more use of the sun light move.

But these are just pipe dreams that will likely never happen.
 
I think Kotal is cool. I play characters based on who i think is cool. But if they're bad i won't
waste my time on them. I wasted enough time with Zwei on SCV lol. I like War God the best cause of the sword, but does War God have tools? Low/overhead mixups, 50/50's, zoning, safe strings, strong punishes?
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
I think Kotal is cool. I play characters based on who i think is cool. But if they're bad i won't
waste my time on them. I wasted enough time with Zwei on SCV lol. I like War God the best cause of the sword, but does War God have tools? Low/overhead mixups, 50/50's, zoning, safe strings, strong punishes?
War God is the strongest variation with good mixups, can make all his strings safe, and can punish for +35% for one bar. He can't zone because his projectile is ridiculously slow, and he loses most of his specials for a few seconds after he uses it. It is however extremely plus on block, making it somewhat useful for setups.