General/Other - Kotal Kahn Kotal Kahn General Discussion

[Hassun]

@Tomo009 In my experience god ray is best when you throw or hit your opponent away from you and you don't intend to chase. Mostly to build metre (which Kotal has a lot of problems doing it seems) and to annoy your opponent or pressure them into coming at you (if they are not zoners).
I'd never throw it out when being pressured in the corner if I were you.

As for Kotal in general, my current feeling is that he's basically a worse version of Ferra/Torr.

 

[Pnut]

Is there any safe way to throw an EX god ray down in the corner at all? I can't find one, at least against Lao.

I was finding my offense to be a bit predictable and hoping to find some different looks for my combos through resets, but I'm really coming up with basically nothing for this character outside throw MB unfortunately.

Would have also been nice to find a use for god ray...

Ending a combo in throw/sunray or b122 cancel into sunray SHOULD work. But I'm scared to ever do it because Sun Ray recovery is so high. Throw/sunray is the only reliable setup I've ever found.

 

[Crayraven]

@Tomo009 In my experience god ray is best when you throw or hit your opponent away from you and you don't intend to chase. Mostly to build metre (which Kotal has a lot of problems doing it seems) and to annoy your opponent or pressure them into coming at you (if they are not zoners).
I'd never throw it out when being pressured in the corner if I were you.

As for Kotal in general, my current feeling is that he's basically a worse version of Ferra/Torr.

Yeah Kotal has difficulty building meter, because all of his moves are so slow compared to the rest of the characters. The result is most of your meter comes from taking damage instead of doing specials. Since most of the time is spent defending. One thing I noticed is when Kotal gets zoned out, he has the most difficult time building meter.

I think war god has it a bit better than the other two variations, but not much better. I haven't tried Ferra/Torr so I can't agree or disagree with your comparison!

 

[Crayraven]

Anyone got a strategy against Kano knife spam? Its hard to get close, you either eat the knife or eat the kano ball.

 

[Pnut]

Anyone got a strategy against Kano knife spam? Its hard to get close, you either eat the knife or eat the kano ball.

Walk block walk block walk block. EX Overhead in range.

 

[Crayraven]

Walk block walk block walk block. EX Overhead in range.

Hmmmm I had a difficult time building meter vs Kano knife spamming .

 

[Pnut]

Hmmmm I had a difficult time building meter vs Kano knife spamming .

It sucks but you have to do it. Worst comes to worst just punish the ball. You take a lot of chip and he builds meter, but once your in you can make up that damage pretty easily. You can also read a non mb knife throw and j1 (long punch ... it's pretty good).

 

[Crayraven]

It sucks but you have to do it. Worst comes to worst just punish the ball. You take a lot of chip and he builds meter, but once your in you can make up that damage pretty easily. You can also read a non mb knife throw and j1 (long punch ... it's pretty good).

I think the strategy is sound, its just the meter that could be a problem. I'll definitely try to apply this strategy vs my next kano fight.

 

[Tomo009]

In my experience god ray is best when you throw or hit your opponent away from you and you don't intend to chase. Mostly to build metre (which Kotal has a lot of problems doing it seems) and to annoy your opponent or pressure them into coming at you (if they are not zoners).
I'd never throw it out when being pressured in the corner if I were you.

Except df3 I find as a better option there in like... 100% of situations, unless the timer is about to run out and I need about 2-3% of healing to timer scam them. Even then it would be easier to throw the sword and chip them them down.

Does seem it is 100% useless in the corner which was the only hope I had for the move so eh.

As for Kotal in general, my current feeling is that he's basically a worse version of Ferra/Torr.

An unfortunately apt statement I feel, I might even try out Vicious F/T a bit. They have all the same (actually, significantly BETTER) mixups with all their strings and specials as well as a command throw on top and are just way more safe. They don't get sword toss though, that's pretty much the only thing. Also a way slower run.

Ending a combo in throw/sunray or b122 cancel into sunray SHOULD work. But I'm scared to ever do it because Sun Ray recovery is so high. Throw/sunray is the only reliable setup I've ever found.

Nope and nope.

Throw isn't even close, it is only 37 frames of advantage, so unless you throw them OUT of the corner completely defeating the point.

I've gone through every string, it seems impossible to cancel into a god ray safely, sucks.

 

[Pnut]

Nope and nope.

Throw isn't even close, it is only 37 frames of advantage, so unless you throw them OUT of the corner completely defeating the point.

I've gone through every string, it seems impossible to cancel into a god ray safely, sucks.

Yeah throw only works midscreen then ... sunray stinks

 

[Beach]

I commented way back when about Sun God and man it's a hard life, I do however really like Kotal! So it seems my option is to pick up War God, so now my question is: how should I be pressuring with this variation and what are some basic BnB's and pressure things that I should start off with to get into it?

Edit: Also any links to videos on some higher level players playing? That always seems to help me better understand a character.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Ending a combo in throw/sunray or b122 cancel into sunray SHOULD work. But I'm scared to ever do it because Sun Ray recovery is so high. Throw/sunray is the only reliable setup I've ever found.

B122 into Sun Ray DOES work. I use B122, Sun Ray/God Ray fairly often.

 

[Tomo009]

B122 into Sun Ray DOES work. I use B122, Sun Ray/God Ray fairly often.

If you read my post, I was looking for combos into god ray in the corner, ending a combo with b122 xx god ray ends up in spin to the face for you.

 

[KeyserSoze]

If you read my post, I was looking for combos into god ray in the corner, ending a combo with b122 xx god ray ends up in spin to the face for you.

Yeah, I realized afterwards that you were exclusively focusing on the corner. Sun Ray needs to be faster.

 

[RYX]

personal opinion is that we need to find ways to set up blood offerings for high damage in blood/sun god. Totems are good too for the former.

blood offerings + parry buffs give him crazy damage, rolling up in high 50-60%s without a bar of meter.

War God IMO benefits the least from Blood Offering, he doesn't get the same damage and he has no way to regain health like how Sun God/Blood Totem offer. The highest I can get is 45% meterless but I think you're better off going for the DF2/DB1 endings instead of blood offering. He pays for his lack of extreme damage with better versatility, with Sun God being somewhere in between.

To whoever said he's got bad meter build: I'd only say that's true in Sun God. War God's cancels are actually pretty decent and Blood Totem gives him health and Meter when it times out. It's nothing too special but a Blood Offering combo with it active can give you over or about half a bar; a 54% 1-bar combo will give you roughly that much back in meter and a meterless combo can still you give a big chunk for only using Totem and Air Grab, and you can still usually wedge another hit in there for a bigger chunk if the combo's short enough.

 

[Hellbringer]

How do you put blood totems with wargod? Teach me

 

[regulas]

How do you put blood totems with wargod? Teach me

You don't it's Blood only. It's also bugged so it doesnt work right, and its unlikely you will get the full duration so blood totem is mostly for draining their meter moreso then healing.

 

[Hellbringer]

You don't it's Blood only. It's also bugged so it doesnt work right, and its unlikely you will get the full duration so blood totem is mostly for draining their meter moreso then healing.

I was joking, a reply to ryx his post. I tought that was obvious

 

[regulas]

I was joking, a reply to ryx his post. I tought that was obvious

Maybe it's a side effect of my job, but I often just assume people don't know then the otherway around, sicne even here in the forums it happens often enough.

 

[Hassun]

Except df3 I find as a better option there in like... 100% of situations, unless the timer is about to run out and I need about 2-3% of healing to timer scam them. Even then it would be easier to throw the sword and chip them them down.

Does seem it is 100% useless in the corner which was the only hope I had for the move so eh.

Sunstone (41) is quite a bit slower on startup than god ray (18) though. Sadly both of them will get blown up by a slippery slide from reptile on wakeup from very long range.

An unfortunately apt statement I feel, I might even try out Vicious F/T a bit. They have all the same (actually, significantly BETTER) mixups with all their strings and specials as well as a command throw on top and are just way more safe. They don't get sword toss though, that's pretty much the only thing. Also a way slower run.

Both are weak to hard zoning but I feel F/T have better combos, very good normals and a better mixup game. I'm still sticking with Kotal though.

 

[regulas]

With 18 frame start-up it's really too bad God Ray doesn't cause block/hit-stun cause then it could be usable. Imagine if it did say 4% hit followed by 4-6% of ticks with double damage for EX. It's not like it's spammable with it's duration.

 

[RYX]

Sunstone (41) is quite a bit slower on startup than god ray (18) though. Sadly both of them will get blown up by a slippery slide from reptile on wakeup from very long range.



Both are weak to hard zoning but I feel F/T have better combos, very good normals and a better mixup game. I'm still sticking with Kotal though.

F/T does peanut damage compared to Kotal

 

[Crimzon-ET]

@Tomo009
As for Kotal in general, my current feeling is that he's basically a worse version of Ferra/Torr.

An unfortunately apt statement I feel, I might even try out Vicious F/T a bit. They have all the same (actually, significantly BETTER) mixups with all their strings and specials as well as a command throw on top and are just way more safe. They don't get sword toss though, that's pretty much the only thing. Also a way slower run..

Actually I do like to play Vicious Ferra Torr to but only because I really like the character a lot and I find Vicious to be their most fun and useful variation mainly because of Boss Toss. However I am sticking with Kotal Kahn because Kotal Kahn is my favorite character in MKX and I feel that Kotal Kahn's overall play style is based on patience and punishes which I am more comfortable with right now in MKX.

I have been mainly focusing on Sun God but I am starting to learn War God more and already I am finding it much easier to get in and start and offense in that variation. Eventually I want to become competent with all of Kotal Kahn's variations on a tournament level so that I and use them for countering my opponent's play style.

 

[Shufflez]

About sun gun and wargod, are there any matchups so far where sun god would clearly be a better choice than war god? I'd consider taking a more serious look into sun god if that turned out to be the case and besides the sub zero matchup I've heard mentioned are there any other matchups were Kotal seems to struggle a bit?

 

[Tomo009]

Cybernetic Kano is trouble for me.

Kung Lao too but that might just be me.

Probably some other matchups where the opponent has mid/low projectiles would be tricky.