Kombat Tomb Podcast - Ep. 29 with WoundCowboy

[187x]

Took words out of my mouth

I've played against a lot of ZOD players too, they're free honestly

Trust me I would LOVE to find a much better ZOD than me or Dave so we could learn from someone

Our only hope is shipping SimSim illegally through customs and forcing him to live in USA
Cause he'd probably body all of us

c88 shockwave's zod is not free. thats the zod that i play and get all the exp from.

Foxy nobody is talking about Zod mu's just a laser trait mixup your probably not familiar with. But i guess since its not pig or dave the mixups are being done wrong or the char is being played wrong.... ----__

 

[SimSim]

yes you can.

Assuming we are talking about the full screen mix up between ground blast charge (until explosion or MB) and backdash/forward dash canceled to trait grab, your time to react with either high or low block should be between 13-17 frames. If done perfectly the dash can be canceled on the first frame in to trait grab. I am not sure, but that seems to be too small of a gap to reliably react to.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Assuming we are talking about the full screen mix up between ground blast charge (until explosion or MB) and backdash/forward dash canceled to trait grab, your time to react with either high or low block should be between 13-17 frames. If done perfectly the dash can be canceled on the first frame in to trait grab. I am not sure, but that seems to be too small of a gap to reliably react to.

Boom

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

c88 shockwave's zod is not free. thats the zod that i play and get all the exp from.

Foxy nobody is talking about Zod mu's just a laser trait mixup your probably not familiar with. But i guess since its not pig or dave the mixups are being done wrong or the char is being played wrong.... ----__

What's his tag

And simsim just summed it up w facts

 

[Sajam]

Oh jeez, I didn't even know this was out.

Alright, time for me to sit here and giggle for the next few hours. I wish I had my own podcast where I could blow people up

Edit: I was about to pop off about Aladdin not being the best until they started talking about The Lion King. I need to school some people about a Disney movie tier list.

Oh, and Slips hates Boston .

"I could be Adonis if I wanted to" OMG

 

[DarthArma]

OMG i lost it at glory hole!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahahahahahahaha

 

[Rampage254]

So much racism

 

[Sajam]

The thing about NW's overhead/low made me laugh.

Stand 1 into ground pound is super easy to spot, and stand 2 is 22 frames. If you can't block that, you don't have a lot of NW experience, cause everybody can react to that.

 

[16 Bit]

One of my overheads is slower than 22 and I've yet to play anyone that can react to it.

 

[M2Dave]

Being top 5 pre-patch means the character was too simple to win with. Nobody enjoyed playing the against characers like Frost doing 40% resets/trait cancel 50/50's; Aquaman unpunishable scoops/corner block infinites; Superman f+2,3~breath pressure/eye lasers; BA runaway/zoning.

The same was with DS and his guns.

The difference is that all those characters are still top ten characters. Their core gameplay is 100% in tact. Deathstroke's is not. Deathstroke's zoning was ruined. The remaining good tools of today used to be the character's complementary tools (i.e., average 50/50 mix up, average footsies, average damage output, etc.). The character was obviously meant to be a "zoning first" character just like Raven and Sinestro.

If a top 5 character got nerfed and they are still solid, I don't consider that 'ruined'. I would consider that mission accomplished. I think everyone would rather lose to a DS player who knows how to play the game instead of a DS player who just sits back and can get W's by cheesey gun shots that do massive chip.

Nobody argued for low gunshots that do 3% of chip on block. Not even I did.

How about some actual, reasonable balance? 0.50% on each bullet, which would be less chip damage than now, but with decreased recovery frames? See, this change keeps the character's core gameplay in tact (as with all the other characters) yet forces him to explore his other tools.

You and 16 Bit seem to share the same flawed mentality as far as character balance goes. "Hey, let's normalize this top tier character and make him/her mid tier". This philosphy does not create a more balanced fighting game at a high level. In fact, it only means that more players will be quitting their main character and end up using the new top tier characters of the game. That is why nobody uses Deathstroke now. Average character all around with no special tools that make him stand out.

 

[Sajam]

One of my overheads is slower than 22 and I've yet to play anyone that can react to it.

But to be fair, the animation is an important part of it.

People still get hit by it sometimes, but mostly it's because they fell asleep or they are trying to jump out of the corner. Stand 2 is very good for catching people out of the air/jump backs.

 

[Bildslash]

The thing about NW's overhead/low made me laugh.

Stand 1 into ground pound is super easy to spot, and stand 2 is 22 frames. If you can't block that, you don't have a lot of NW experience, cause everybody can react to that.

What about 1 f2? Can you react to 1 xx Ground Pound/1 f2?

 

[Sajam]

What about 1 f2? Can you react to 1 xx Ground Pound/1 f2?

Nope, but 1f2 is fine to take. You can tech roll after to create space or wake up, so NW has to respect it.

 

[Bildslash]

"Gonzalez, Gonzalez, Gonzalez..."
"Black, black, black..."
"Wop, wop, wop, wop..."

Jesus Christ you had me in hysterics. Lets not forget about glory holes shenanigans.

P.S.: Lol at everyone "ignoring" K7 for like 20 mins straight.

 

[LEGEND]

What about 1 f2? Can you react to 1 xx Ground Pound/1 f2?

not consistently in my experience, but it does low damage and doesn't lead to anything

just hold down vs NW

 

[Slips]

The difference is that all those characters are still top ten characters. Their core gameplay is 100% in tact. Deathstroke's is not. Deathstroke's zoning was ruined. The remaining good tools of today used to be the character's complementary tools (i.e., average 50/50 mix up, average footsies, average damage output, etc.). The character was obviously meant to be a "zoning first" character just like Raven and Sinestro.



Nobody argued for low gunshots that do 3% of chip on block. Not even I did.

How about some actual, reasonable balance? 0.50% on each bullet, which would be less chip damage than now, but with decreased recovery frames? See, this change keeps the character's core gameplay in tact (as with all the other characters) yet forces him to explore his other tools.

You and 16 Bit seem to share the same flawed mentality as far as character balance goes. "Hey, let's normalize this top tier character and make him/her mid tier". This philosphy does not create a more balanced fighting game at a high level. In fact, it only means that more players will be quitting their main character and end up using the new top tier characters of the game. That is why nobody uses Deathstroke now. Average character all around with no special tools that make him stand out.

Everyone knows your the 'zoning master' who just wants to zone doesn't want to learn how to play the game. So when your super good zoning character who also had extremely good footsies got reduced to just average zoning and still has the extremely good footsies you throw a tantrum. Deathroke's design wasn't "obviously" zoning first. It was just zoning first in YOUR eyes. It's not Deathstroke's faults you didn't want to learn how to fight up close with him. You didn't even know about f+3 until UFGT.

You act like Deathstroke was the only one who got his 'core' changed;

Superman f+2 got shortened, breath lost it's frame advantage, and his laser recovery reduced (literally every aspect of his core)

Frost lost her trait cancel 50/50's.

Scorpion's core footsie tools were his jump 1 and jump 3 which the hitboxes were heavily reduced.

Speaking of Scorp, he was a top 5 character that even AFTER he got patched you said it wasn't enough and they needed to go futher when he very well could be bottom 5 now. But since it was an anti-zoner that got nerfed and not a zoner we hear nothing from you about that. So please don't talk to me about the 'philosophy' of nerfing a top 5 character to mid tier when you got a top 5 character reduced to low tier.

Maybe your right and I know nothing about balance. But you are the last person anyone should depher to when it comes to that matter. You where your agenda on your sleeve.

 

[Rude]

Slips vs. M2Dave money match???

Duh, duh, duh, duuuuuuuhh!!

 

[M2Dave]

Everyone knows your the 'zoning master' who just wants to zone doesn't want to learn how to play the game. So when your super good zoning character who also had extremely good footsies got reduced to just average zoning and still has the extremely good footsies you throw a tantrum. Deathroke's design wasn't "obviously" zoning first. It was just zoning first in YOUR eyes. It's not Deathstroke's faults you didn't want to learn how to fight up close with him. You didn't even know about f+3 until UFGT.

You act like Deathstroke was the only one who got his 'core' changed;

Superman f+2 got shortened, breath lost it's frame advantage, and his laser recovery reduced (literally every aspect of his core)

Frost lost her trait cancel 50/50's.

Scorpion's core footsie tools were his jump 1 and jump 3 which the hitboxes were heavily reduced.

Speaking of Scorp, he was a top 5 character that even AFTER he got patched you said it wasn't enough and they needed to go futher when he very well could be bottom 5 now. But since it was an anti-zoner that got nerfed and not a zoner we hear nothing from you about that. So please don't talk to me about the 'philosophy' of nerfing a top 5 character to mid tier when you got a top 5 character reduced to low tier.

Maybe your right and I know nothing about balance. But you are the last person anyone should depher to when it comes to that matter. You where your agenda on your sleeve.

First of all, Superman's f+2's hitbox was reduced and super breath lost its frame advantage because he had a pseudo block infinite combo on many characters. Besides, in many respected players' opinions, Superman is still a top 5 character. Theo and Wound Cowboy seem to agree.

Frost's core gameplay is the safe slide, the safe 50/50 mix up, and the reset. All still perfectly in tact. She is still considered to be a top 10 character in many respected players' opinions.

But who honestly believes that Deathstroke is still top 5 aside from Vagrant, whom you and 16 Bit must have brainwashed, and a couple of ignorant fools in the Deathstroke forum?

Everybody admitted on the podcast that Scorpion was over-normalized, which is something you still have to admit about Deathstroke but refuse to do so because you are the one who argued for the normalizations.

Also, I was shocked when I heard you compare Scorpion to ST Claw, a character that the Japanese attempted to soft-ban for the same reasons that Tom, Pig, and I attempted to ban Scorpion. If I had compared Deathstroke to O.Sagat, this community would have castrated me.

 

[Slips]

First of all, Superman's f+2's hitbox was reduced and super breath lost its frame advantage because he had a pseudo block infinite combo on many characters. Besides, in many respected players' opinions, Superman is still a top 5 character. Theo and Wound Cowboy seem to agree.

Frost's core gameplay is the safe slide, the safe 50/50 mix up, and the reset. All still perfectly in tact. She is still considered to be a top 10 character in many respected players' opinions.

But who honestly believes that Deathstroke is still top 5 aside from Vagrant, whom you and 16 Bit must have brainwashed, and a couple of ignorant fools in the Deathstroke forum?

Everybody admitted on the podcast that Scorpion was over-normalized, which is something you still have to admit about Deathstroke but refuse to do so because you are the one who argued for the normalizations.

Also, I was shocked when I heard you compare Scorpion to ST Claw, a character that the Japanese attempted to soft-ban for the same reasons that Tom, Pig, and I attempted to ban Scorpion. If I had compared Deathstroke to O.Sagat, this community would have castrated me.

Deathstroke core zoning and counter zoning is still intact as well. You act like his zoning is non-existant now. Sure maybe he got hit harder than Superman or Frost, its not a perfect world, but that doesn't mean he sucks now.

I refuse to admit DS was over~normlized because I still feel he is good. We will just have to agree to disagree on that. Even though both me and Aris proved you otherwise.

I've never heard of ST Claw being soft-banned. Even if they did try, its a good thing they didn't because he's not even the best in the game. They learned the matchup. Something you should've tried to do instead of coming to a conclusion just after 1 week.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Ok just FTR I'm embarrassed by my actions during the scorp removal initiation so just leave my name out of it when using me as an example
General M2Dave
GGA Slips

Where as "DS runs injustice" was funny , "Ban scorp" is forever embarrassing

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

c88 shockwave's zod is not free. thats the zod that i play and get all the exp from.

Foxy nobody is talking about Zod mu's just a laser trait mixup your probably not familiar with. But i guess since its not pig or dave the mixups are being done wrong or the char is being played wrong.... ----__

I know about the laser trait mixup.
I know that at least as WoWo the low laser misses fullscreen, so he has to use meter to make it a legit 5050 against her.

Its not about 'doing mixups' its about how they play out a match, and I've seen not one other Zod that wouldn't get destroyed by my WoWo. All I'm saying.

 

[M2Dave]

Deathstroke core zoning and counter zoning is still intact as well. You act like his zoning is non-existant now. Sure maybe he got hit harder than Superman or Frost, its not a perfect world, but that doesn't mean he sucks now.

He does not suck, but he is not very good either.

Actually, the zoning is non-existent in many match ups like vs. Ares, Batgirl, Martian Manhunter, Raven, The Flash, Zatanna, Zod, etc. A couple of these characters punish any fired gun more than half a screen away, yet when they get in your face they abuse you with safe 50/50 mix ups that reset. What a balance!

I refuse to admit DS was over~normlized because I still feel he is good. We will just have to agree to disagree on that. Even though both me and Aris proved you otherwise.

Neither one of you has done anything recently. I think both of you are great players, but the character is not good. Besides, Aris quit and you use Scorpion now.

 

[Slips]

He does not suck, but he is not very good either.

Actually, the zoning is non-existent in many match ups like vs. Ares, Batgirl, Martian Manhunter, Raven, The Flash, Zatanna, Zod, etc. A couple of these characters punish any fired gun more than half a screen away, yet when they get in your face they abuse you with safe 50/50 mix ups that reset. What a balance!



Neither one of you has done anything recently. I think both of you are great players, but the character is not good. Besides, Aris quit and you use Scorpion now.

Uh yea. Save for maybe Raven and Flash, he couldn't zone these characters whether he had his old gunshots or not. That nerfed surely screwed up the balance.

Appreciate the sentiments, but we didn't stop using DS because we felt he wasn't good. Again, if you think he sucks, we'll just have to disagree.

 

[Immortal]

 

[NightwingDayZero]

Neither one of you has done anything recently.

So we're pretending EVO wasn't 3 months ago. Cool.

Also, why is it that so few people bring up knockdown capitalization as a factor in their matchup discussion? Deathstroke has two of the best wakeups in the game and yet no one really mentions that it's asking to get sword flipped going for cross ups when you knock him down.