General/Other - Boneshaper Kenshi+Reptile need a new Friend. Shinnok it is.

[Dankster Morgan]

I have resisted learning Shinnok for a while now, but this thread makes me want to learn him.

Is he good vs rush-down? I still love my Kotal and recently have been learning Takeda, but I have room in my heart for three characters.

Me too. Watching WoundCowboy pull off a perfectly spaced ex scoop looks so satisfying.

 

[juicepouch]

Everyone is overrated if you listen to the "experts". Tanya, Shinnok, Quan Chi, Kung Lao, Liu Kang, D'vorah, Kotal, Jax, Johnny, Predator, Erron and so forth. Someone is just straight up lying because they can about that big group of characters (I wager most are). Sorry that someone has to be at the top lol.

to expand further, sorry someone has to be the bottom
People use excuses about their character as a crutch to mask their deficiencies as players. If a character is so bad just pick a top tier and stop crying about it already

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

to expand further, sorry someone has to be the bottom
People use excuses about their character as a crutch to mask their deficiencies as players. If a character is so bad just pick a top tier and stop crying about it already

Id argue my success w kenshi shows proficiencies as a player

 

[juicepouch]

Id argue my success w kenshi shows proficiencies as a player

I'm speaking generally

 

[RunwayMafia]

Id argue my success w kenshi shows proficiencies as a player

Exactly.

Terrible frame data can't be worked around. Remember Kitana the first month or so after launch? Damn near every string, normal, and special was -12 or more. Lol, it was bizarre as fuck.

I don't know shit about Kenshi but I know poorly designed frame data is cancer in a FG.

So yassssss Pig, slay with OP Shinnok. He is still broke and waaaaaaayyyyy better than Kobu!

 

[SaltShaker]

Paulo trolls and feels he's fine and my problem is I dont AA Shoulder


Yep.....thats it. AA Shoulder, answer to all
smh

If this is true that is some Hall of Fame levels of incompetence for someone in charge of balancing...

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

If this is true that is some Hall of Fame levels of incompetence for someone in charge of balancing...

I swear

 

[Diego de Souza Costa]

If this is true that is some Hall of Fame levels of incompetence for someone in charge of balancing...

Pig u scrublord, why are you not "anti airing" with shoulder charge ?!..... LOL

this is the dude in charge of the "balance" of the game ??????

 

[BillStickers]

that is some Hall of Fame levels of incompetence for someone in charge of balancing

haha

 

[Nuovo_Cabjoy]

Check the threads like the rest of us!

 

[IQuan The Chi]

Hey Guys

I really would like all Shinnok mains to list for me the most important 3-5 things to do with Broke........Bone Shaper. Im done counting on Just kenshi, I really like Reptile and he has covered 4-5 of Kenshi many bad MUs pretty well w success but see theres these other characters called the top tier that cannot be covered by these two characters and I need some S+ reinforcement because im tired of F ing around w low tier kenshi and Upper Mid Reptile (he's very good but i want MKX top 5 good)

I dont think Shinnok has any Bad MUs, I feel he is still broke and top 5.

If Kenshi EX RK was +12 on block id probably still use him too or maybe if Shinnok Fireball was -44 on crouch whiff people wouldnt have as much success w Shinnok, idk who knows. I do know one thing, I've had success w low tier kenshi but thirst dominance now leading up till evo 2016 and i think Shinnok is just the Broken Ronald McDonald I'm looking for.

So I'm accepting all advice - BNBs, Strats, etc.

Ill start using him at tourney around KIT, he'll be ready by then

Thx

why shinnok pig ? why not Warlock Quan ? he has a good wakeup now

 

[I GOT HANDS]

He's talking to I GOT HANDS

He knows, he can see my name in all the peoples posts who quoted me. Also he doesn't have me blocked anyway, as he liked one of my posts a week or so back without realising, round about the time I changed my avatar. He's just feigning ignorance to get asked about it so that he make the statement that he has me blocked.

Everyone is overrated if you listen to the "experts". Tanya, Shinnok, Quan Chi, Kung Lao, Liu Kang, D'vorah, Kotal, Jax, Johnny, Predator, Erron and so forth. Someone is just straight up lying because they can about that big group of characters (I wager most are). Sorry that someone has to be at the top lol.

Agree fully

It's like people only see the weakness when playing them and judge them solely on that weakness while their strengths become s blind spot

^^ You guys said it. There is maybe a couple of outliers at most but I think for the most part the game is very balanced and there isn't really a disconnect between these characters and the majority of the cast. In fact I think as time goes on we may start to see that some of these aren't even that high on the list!

Ah I see. I'm new here but iv had a positive experience with him pretty much.

And you will continue to, just like everyone else who is friendly and polite. Pig is notorious for his atrocious attitude and attacking people who disagree with him. I could give you examples, but it will explain itself just as quickly, and I don't have such an agenda here, I'm just talking about why Kenshi hasn't been given the buffs he needs seeing as it's being discussed, and I'm simply not going to skirt around the fact that Pigs actions are likely a big contributor to this unfortunately, emphasised by Paulo now trolling Pig about it.

 

[THTB]

Imo
Kung Lao 5-5
Tanya 4-6
Shinnok slight 4-6
Predator 6-4
Quan 5-5
Not bad at all

I don't see an advantage on Predator. Even is kinda pushing it as it is. The only character on that list I think is definitely a solid even matchup is Quan. I think Reptile does fine enough in neutral to actually contend with Quan there, especially with a bar. Lao is pretty much just better at too many parts of the screen for him to actually go even with him. Shinnok is a solid enough neutral monster to make it hard for Reptile in general.

And this is just those 5. Cassie gives Reptile fits by outclassing him at midrange so well, on top of being capable of punishing a few of Reptile's important options that are otherwise basically safe on the rest of the cast due to flip kick. Liu Kang is probably among Reptile's worst matchups altogether. Low fireball gives Reptile so many problems in neutral, and DF's tools basically compensate for the one thing Reptile actually does better in the matchup (outranging him at f21 range safely). GM Sub demolishes Reptile. Like. Nuff said. Been a bad matchup for countless reasons since the game's release.

The character isn't terrible, by any means. He's bullshit, obviously. I'll maintain that even when I say all this lol. Can't overlook +8ish blockstrings that advance like 3/4s of the screen, literally unseeable 50/50s, forces you to have no idea how to space him, and has a general toolset that is just really solid. But that's all in a game with some pretty severe bullshit...some of which makes this a little tame in comparison.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I don't see an advantage on Predator. Even is kinda pushing it as it is. The only character on that list I think is definitely a solid even matchup is Quan. I think Reptile does fine enough in neutral to actually contend with Quan there, especially with a bar. Lao is pretty much just better at too many parts of the screen for him to actually go even with him. Shinnok is a solid enough neutral monster to make it hard for Reptile in general.

And this is just those 5. Cassie gives Reptile fits by outclassing him at midrange so well, on top of being capable of punishing a few of Reptile's important options that are otherwise basically safe on the rest of the cast due to flip kick. Liu Kang is probably among Reptile's worst matchups altogether. Low fireball gives Reptile so many problems in neutral, and DF's tools basically compensate for the one thing Reptile actually does better in the matchup (outranging him at f21 range safely). GM Sub demolishes Reptile. Like. Nuff said. Been a bad matchup for countless reasons since the game's release.

The character isn't terrible, by any means. He's bullshit, obviously. I'll maintain that even when I say all this lol. Can't overlook +8ish blockstrings that advance like 3/4s of the screen, literally unseeable 50/50s, forces you to have no idea how to space him, and has a general toolset that is just really solid. But that's all in a game with some pretty severe bullshit...some of which makes this a little tame in comparison.

How does Cassie best him mid range? He has a tool to match her B1, and she can't really iAG at all safely vs Reptile right... I would have thought they'd be fairly even at midrange.
I feel like Reptile goes even with almost all of the top tiers. Not GM Sub but he's not top tier. But I don't play the character that much so you'd probably know better than me, maybe you can explain some of this to me. What specifically makes some of those match ups losing ones for Reptile?

 

[dribirut]

Yea you also said Kano top 5


Next....

Lol you have to be blind to not see how he could have easily been top 5 when the game came out. His b1 stagger was ridiculous and tanya/ predator were still not out. Shinnok was still bad. Just because youre reptile gets bodied, doesnt mean the mu is horrendous.

Shinnok is losing but nothing too bad.
Kung Lao is fine and is a 5-5. If i lose to a kung lao its not because its a bad mu, the player is probably just better than me

 

[B. Shazzy]

Everyone is overrated if you listen to the "experts". Tanya, Shinnok, Quan Chi, Kung Lao, Liu Kang, D'vorah, Kotal, Jax, Johnny, Predator, Erron and so forth. Someone is just straight up lying because they can about that big group of characters (I wager most are). Sorry that someone has to be at the top lol.

It's in the word "expert". Understanding a character thoruoughly vs someone who doesn't know anything, or in tym's case, gets bodied online and holds some delusion... of course admitting educated opinions would seem like downplaying to ignorant people.

 

[THTB]

How does Cassie best him mid range? He has a tool to match her B1, and she can't really iAG at all safely vs Reptile right... I would have thought they'd be fairly even at midrange.
I feel like Reptile goes even with almost all of the top tiers. Not GM Sub but he's not top tier. But I don't play the character that much so you'd probably know better than me, maybe you can explain some of this to me. What specifically makes some of those match ups losing ones for Reptile?

b1 is faster than f21, and unlike Cassie, f21's offense only really gets started with a bar. It makes her better in the long run because she's not as meter-dependent at that range, and will oftentimes beat him to the punch. Doesn't help that her run is really fast, too.

Pretty much the characters that beat Reptile either disable or restrict Reptile notably in the neutral game. Mostly by good air games or by being better on the ground. All the characters I listed also don't give a rat's ass about forceballs for the most part. That's generally what happens with Reptile, and he doesn't really have a variation that makes those matchups any better.

@dribirut I thought Lao was even until I started playing King's Lao. Reptile's not built to play as lame vs Lao as you have to.

 

[SaltShaker]

It's in the word "expert". Understanding a character thoruoughly vs someone who doesn't know anything, or in tym's case, gets bodied online and holds some delusion... of course admitting educated opinions would seem like downplaying to ignorant people.

This logic is incredibly flawed.

If "Tanya, Shinnok, Quan Chi, Kung Lao, Liu Kang, D'Vorah, Kotal, Jax, Johnny, Predator, Erron" are all either overrated, not Top 5 or both as has been stated by main's of the characters, then who is the real Top 5? Is the real Top 5 Sonya, Kung Jin, Kitana, Sub-zero, and Takeda?

What seems more likely? Massive downplaying, or that people don't know the real Top 5? Or is it one of those things where whoever is speaking about a Top Tier main being not Top 5 is correct, but then they list the same Top Tiers everyone else does when it isn't their main?

 

[Crimson Panther]

Yea you also said Kano top 5


Next....

Didn't you say that after his buffs Kenshi was now top 5?

 

[B. Shazzy]

This logic is incredibly flawed.

If "Tanya, Shinnok, Quan Chi, Kung Lao, Liu Kang, D'Vorah, Kotal, Jax, Johnny, Predator, Erron" are all either overrated, not Top 5 or both as has been stated by main's of the characters, then who is the real Top 5? Is the real Top 5 Sonya, Kung Jin, Kitana, Sub-zero, and Takeda?

What seems more likely? Massive downplaying, or that people don't know the real Top 5? Or is it one of those things where whoever is speaking about a Top Tier main being not Top 5 is correct, but then they list the same Top Tiers everyone else does when it isn't their main?

It's possible for different people to have different opinions on top 5 based on diffrrent levels of information. How is that "flawed"? I didn't say "every 'expert' "downplaying" their character has accurate information on tier lists."

I keep hearing Tanya's top 5 from people who believe her delayed rekkas are +15, yet somehow I'm a "downplayer" while coincidentally one of the only people with accurate information, who is an "expert" on the character.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

It's possible for different people to have different opinions on top 5 based on diffrrent levels of information. How is that "flawed"? I didn't say "every "expert" "downplaying" their character has accurate information on tier lists."

I keep hearing Tanya's top 5 from people who believe her delayed rekkas are +15, yet somehow I'm a "downplayer" while coincidentally one of the only people who is an "expert" on the character.

I gotta agree with this. @SaltShaker I think you are making the mistake of assuming there is a concrete top 5 at this point. I think there is a concrete top 2 lol, but aside from the outliers the following top 10 is extremely closely balanced.

I don't think people are downplaying by having differing opinions here. I think you have to rcognise downplaying on its own merits and lack of substance - don't worry, they usually make it pretty easy for us lol

 

[stamatis]

Same character

They don't especialy if he gets more buffs

No,my reply's purpose was to show you that you do not know what you want,drama queen!

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Didn't you say that after his buffs Kenshi was now top 5?

yea and he got 11 buffs and still look how bad he is

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

No,my reply's purpose was to show you that you do not know what you want,drama queen!

Ive stated desired changes he needs - be happy im one of few who actually still posts on tym

 

[Laos_boy]

Kitana for lao tanya and shinnok. Because fuck shinnok.