Kano Changes 6/7/11

[Gthunda866]

God damit we have to wait untill after CEO for this god damn patch, The thing is people who bought the game want the patch now and most don't care about one tournament to wait for it (if that is the reason they are delaying it) I just want the god damn patch

 

[GUNZaBLAZE]

Hopefully this will stop all the Kano hate....or spice it up more cus they will still be getting their butt kicked by him despite the patch. Kano has always been good IMO I'm gonna just leave it at that. What I'm curious about is if it will revert back to the old kano up ball or will it be a new one, with more recovery or a recovery point in between the new and old ball.

 

[-YMK-]

its gonna be like this:
Old (bad) recovery on block
new (good) recovery on whiff.

 

[GUNZaBLAZE]

its gonna be like this:
Old (bad) recovery on block
new (good) recovery on whiff.

Sweet it will still be useful for escape.

 

[funkdoc]

Yeah, I don't mind this for Kano at all. Hell, his matchups vs. Lao & Raiden should get better thanks to their nerfs...hopefully we can get b+112 after blocked spin now.

 

[G4S KT]

hopefully we can get b+112 after blocked spin now.

Mmm, I'm getting all tingly just thinking about it.

 

[Sequel]

Yeah, I don't mind this for Kano at all. Hell, his matchups vs. Lao & Raiden should get better thanks to their nerfs...hopefully we can get b+112 after blocked spin now.

Actually with Kano as he is now, I dominate all Raiden matchups. Kano can out zone Raiden, and beat his Teleport with Up Ball safely. Kung Lao is trickier to beat but I usually just bait dive kicks and punish spins on block and whiff. Oh and against Low Hat... jump over it and punish with air ball. Stop sitting there blocking it and jump over and punish it. This game isn't complicated folks.

I don't know why Kano players INSIST on downplaying their character - I actually went in the lab with him and he's quite good. Sure he doesn't have ALL the options, but what he has is GOOD ENOUGH to pull in wins.

 

[Gthunda866]

Yo bad we have to wait most likely now god Tom why do you tease us but then someone else says the patch doesn't come out today

 

[cyke_out]

Actually with Kano as he is now, I dominate all Raiden matchups. Kano can out zone Raiden, and beat his Teleport with Up Ball safely. Kung Lao is trickier to beat but I usually just bait dive kicks and punish spins on block and whiff. Oh and against Low Hat... jump over it and punish with air ball. Stop sitting there blocking it and jump over and punish it. This game isn't complicated folks.

I don't know why Kano players INSIST on downplaying their character - I actually went in the lab with him and he's quite good. Sure he doesn't have ALL the options, but what he has is GOOD ENOUGH to pull in wins.

For most part, the people that I know have been toiling away in the Kano forums, are pretty reasonable bucnh and don't downplay their character. Most of us know exactly what Kano has and just how good he has it. but then you got a few bad apples that have recently either flocked to him giving other's a bad name. If there is one thing I'm looking forward from the up-ball fix (not a nerf!) is that the flavor of month players move on to the next character.

 

[M2Dave]

According to Tom Brady, patched Up Ball will not be as unsafe as it was when the game was released. However, all fast special attacks will punish it. Characters with fast jabs will be able to combo punish it. The whiff recovery will remain the same.

For most part, the people that I know have been toiling away in the Kano forums, are pretty reasonable bucnh and don't downplay their character. Most of us know exactly what Kano has and just how good he has it. but then you got a few bad apples that have recently either flocked to him giving other's a bad name. If there is one thing I'm looking forward from the up-ball fix (not a nerf!) is that the flavor of month players move on to the next character.

Ever since the improved Up Ball, I keep reading about "tier whoring" and "flocking" in the Kano forum. First of all, no one is giving Kano a bad name. Using a top tier character in a fighting game is nothing to be ashamed of. Making the transition from a low / mid tier character to a top tier character is not a sin. Daigo has switched from Ryu to Yun. Justin Wong has switched from Rufus to Yang. Mago has switched from Sagat to Fei Long. The list goes on and on yet no one criticises these players because everybody knows that it would be silly to do so. Fighting games are naturally unbalanced, so every player may use whichever character he/she wants to use.

 

[metalmass]

Actually with Kano as he is now, I dominate all Raiden matchups. Kano can out zone Raiden, and beat his Teleport with Up Ball safely. Kung Lao is trickier to beat but I usually just bait dive kicks and punish spins on block and whiff. Oh and against Low Hat... jump over it and punish with air ball. Stop sitting there blocking it and jump over and punish it. This game isn't complicated folks.

I don't know why Kano players INSIST on downplaying their character - I actually went in the lab with him and he's quite good. Sure he doesn't have ALL the options, but what he has is GOOD ENOUGH to pull in wins.

^^^ This ^^^ Kano, to me, seemed too simple but once you start using him and employing his options he becomes quite good. As well as Raiden, I find Scorpion matches not too hard either. Knives catch wakeup teleport and at worst trade with hellfire. j.K into air grab and air balls are great punishes on Scorpion's ground game. Smoke gives me trouble, though. Am I alone there?

 

[MKF30]

Nice, glad they're nerfing the recovery time with his cannon balls. The upward one especially.

 

[Sequel]

^^^ This ^^^ Kano, to me, seemed too simple but once you start using him and employing his options he becomes quite good. As well as Raiden, I find Scorpion matches not too hard either. Knives catch wakeup teleport and at worst trade with hellfire. j.K into air grab and air balls are great punishes on Scorpion's ground game. Smoke gives me trouble, though. Am I alone there?

Depends on how the Smoke player tends to play but most tend to be turtles. Don't throw knives at full screen or even 3/4, he will either teleport or shake. Dash block to get in. Smoke bombs take no chip damage unless it's EX. So it's really about being patient and getting in. The Smoke player will lose patience and throw out a teleport. Block and punish with full combo.

 

[Arcade-Fever]

Nice, glad they're nerfing the recovery time with his cannon balls. The upward one especially.

That's not what they are doing to my understanding, they are nerfing his UP Ball recovery on block nothing else, his other balls are and has always been fine.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

Personally, I would like to strictly play Reptile these days, but it seems that whenever I beat someone with him they immediately counter pick Raiden. I find this extremely aggravating as I've taken the incentive to play a different character that requires a tad more thought process. One who doesn't have an answer for everything; Kano can punish a whiffed combo with an in the air ball, can full screen spam with knives and wait for an opportunity to hit the opponent with a ball and get in close; perhaps blow the x-ray for 41% damage, etc.

What annoys me is, the top tier characters in this game are blatantly top tier. Which I find rather strange when this game has supposedly put an emphasis on 'balance'. Hell, NRS haven't touched Raiden and only further improved Kano...do you see where I'm going here?

 

[tarsier]

Personally, I would like to strictly play Reptile these days, but it seems that whenever I beat someone with him they immediately counter pick Raiden. I find this extremely aggravating as I've taken the incentive to play a different character that requires a tad more thought process. One who doesn't have an answer for everything; Kano can punish a whiffed combo with an in the air ball, can full screen spam with knives and wait for an opportunity to hit the opponent with a ball and get in close; perhaps blow the x-ray for 41% damage, etc.

What annoys me is, the top tier characters in this game are blatantly top tier. Which I find rather strange when this game has supposedly put an emphasis on 'balance'. Hell, NRS haven't touched Raiden and only further improved Kano...do you see where I'm going here?

i can't remember the exact changes, but tom brady definitely mentioned something about reducing advantage on raiden's strings.

a lot of mid-low tier characters are seen as gimmicks. gently toning down the top tier characters is only half of the battle, the other half is allowing time for people to drop KL/raiden and figure out how to use the 'gimmick' characters.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

I have to disagree with mid-low tier characters being the only characters that're seen as gimmicks though. Look at Sub and Ermac, Sub relies heavily on clones and freezing the opponent to maximize his damage and Ermac relies heavily on forcelift; these are both heavily cookie cutter characters at the moment, you see very little diversity from separate players. What I categorize as a gimmicked character is the actual reliance of the move(s) to optimize damage and initiate combos, Scorpion is a great example of this; he has his overhead which he can use as a launcher but it's SO dreadfully slow that you have to use his spear to actually make his launcher viable.

I really want this upcoming patch to make things much more interesting.

 

[tarsier]

more sub zero and more ermac is better than KL and raiden

 

[metalmass]

Interesting idea of gimmicks here. But if, for example, you try to exclusively rush someone down with Ermac you'll most likely lose since he's best at mid range and punishing with lift combos. There isn't too much diversity in Ermac's playstyle as a result, but conversely he has tremendous diversity in how he can initiate combos (even without starting with lift), which is largely what makes him such a good character. If you look at Scorpion, though, he's much more mobile than Ermac and has more options mid to full screen and his chains come out much faster, but the trade off is that he does less damage per hit/combo and requires a more proactive playstyle. You'll see Ermac's blocking a lot, waiting for an opportunity to strike, and Scorpions moving around trying to find a hole in Ermac's defense. That's just the nature of the characters and the game.

Top tier characters may seem "blatantly top tier" but that happens in a lot of fighting games. Did you ever play BlazBlue when it first came out? As a Tager player, I faced 7/3 matches against Nu and worse yet 8/2 against Carl, and Arc System Works didn't even patch the game until a year later. Top tier in BB always won tourneys, unlike games such as SSF4 where at Evo last year eight different characters were seen at the top 8. But that's b/c the game had seen a couple years of balancing so given some time MK will get there, too.

 

[Lyuben]

Kano, ever since the up ball buff is being played the same way each time, I have yet to see an online match that did not go EXACTLY like this.

Knife, Knife, Knife
-Is your opponent close? If yes, Up ball, If no carry on with Knife.

This gets so bad if you are playing a non teleporting character like sub zero, the recovery of his knives mean I cant trade a projectile and it means i am usually at full screen distance so I cant close in with ice slide and If i try enhanced ice slide, that pushes Kano away to carry on his knifeing. If I try to jump over the knives? Well considering how fast they come I would be lucky to, but if I were to get close its.... up ball.

I have yet to see a Kano player that does not abuse knives and up ball. Don't know about you guys, but you seem to be in the minority.

 

[xQCBx]

The problem that people have with Kano now, is that he takes VERY little effort to win with. Even when playing a good opponent offline, I know because I've tried it.
Kano is no doubt a heavy-hitter, so his moves do great damage. Add that, a ball special that is ONE the FASTEST specials, a buffed upball, fast projectile with great recovery, easy juggles, Air grab, and an unblockable 41% xRay. You got your self a easy character. I play every character, obviously some better than others.
But Kano has always gotten eay wins, when I've played him. Especially since I actually combo, unlike the average Kano player. A lot of people turtle with him, so that makes him that much more annoying.

NOTE- Doesn't mean I won't run into someone who can put my Kano in check, but I doubt it'd be easy for them. Unless they're gdlke. xD

In relevance to what M2dave said.
I disagree, plenty of people criticize the pro's for switching top-tier just to stay in the advantage.
Also it make sense to dp so, but what makes your point fall apart is simple. People haven't picked up Kano because they WANT to the play him, but rather because it's spread-news on how good he is. That IS flocking, no matter how you look at it.
Not to say all Kano's are just there for his "recently discovered" traits.
But every Kano I've ran into are flowchart, and don't use him to his full-potential. I have a friend who played Sub-zero since the old mk days. He switched to Kung-Lao after watching a few ombo videos. Not because the combo's were good, but because of the damage. The second he got online and saw that Kung has been nerfed, he switched. Guess who he switched to?.... Kano.

 

[metalmass]

Noob players do the same thing. They spam clone and teleport slam, which is very annoying, so I feel no shame in picking Kano. Counter picking is simply the nature of the beast in fighting games. You see it all the time, even in major tourneys such as Evo, and annoying as it may be to some players it's necessary to show developers how to better the odds. SSF4 saw balance changes as well as second ultras, which changed the dynamics of the game entirely, most notably the Rufus/shoto matchups which are always popular at Evo.

Kano's knives are deadly, yes, and his ball is super fast, true, but it's really the combination of those two moves that make him strong. People forget they can duck knives w/out block and not get chipped, but the fast recovery coupled w/ fast ball startup make not blocking a risky option, especially close range since there is virtually no time to react to ball. If NRS changes anything to make Kano more manageable at close range it's ball startup. Not that I recommend it, but it seems the most logical option.

 

[Warplay]

I just really hope they don't patch Kano up too much. Doing anything else to him other than making the upball more punishable would be excessive. There's too many characters that are way more overpowered than him even with his upball as is.

 

[GStick]

People forget they can duck knives w/out block and not get chipped, but the fast recovery coupled w/ fast ball startup make not blocking a risky option, especially close range since there is virtually no time to react to ball. If NRS changes anything to make Kano more manageable at close range it's ball startup. Not that I recommend it, but it seems the most logical option.

You shouldn't be empty ducking knives anyway. Crouch under them, then hold block. If he throws another knife, crouch under it and then hold block again. Sure, at close range it probably won't protect you from ball, but further away where Kano feels safer it will. Worst case scenario would usually be that you block a knife. You could mess up and eat a Kano ball, but if you time your blocking right I don't think that would usually happen.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

You shouldn't be empty ducking knives anyway. Crouch under them, then hold block. If he throws another knife, crouch under it and then hold block again. Sure, at close range it probably won't protect you from ball, but further away where Kano feels safer it will. Worst case scenario would usually be that you block a knife. You could mess up and eat a Kano ball, but if you time your blocking right I don't think that would usually happen.

I just played Kano and EX knife no longer hits you crouched either, horrah! Now I can actually bait out his ball and punish him without getting killed by the EX knives.