Match-up Discussion Joker Matchup Discussion

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[VGB Joe Kerr]

I think we should discuss how to beat strong zoners as a whole. eating mad chip damage and maybe landing a j2 into a 40% combo isn't really a solid strategy =/

 

[EtherGK]

I think we should discuss how to beat strong zoners as a whole. eating mad chip damage and maybe landing a j2 into a 40% combo isn't really a solid strategy =/

Make sure to time your dashes, if you block one deathstroke standing shots that means a dash forward. If he does the air shots that means you dashed twice and you're already midscreen. Every time he takes a shot should be a risk.
Also if you block supermans air fireball at at least 3/4 range then you can punish it with gunshot on block.

You have to practice to dash right out of block, or right out of crouch when you duck a projectile. Once you get it they'll never be free to just shoot all day.

 

[Deleted member 9158]

I've had some serious issues with the Flash v Joker, because once the Flash gets in, the Joker crumbles. any tips? can't zone him effectively either due to his parry.

Chattering teeth set ups maybe?

 

[MrTorture]

Anyone have any tips for fighting Aquaman?

 

[laudanum09]

Against zoning in general, since I'm coming from a Street Fighter background where zoning is strong, I gotta say don't be afraid of chip damage. Against 6-4 or god forbid 7-3 matchups, you have to have the mentality that you're going in with 25-50% less health than your opponent.

Are there safejumps in this game? If there are I think b1, 3 is great for setting them up. You land this and jump forward immediately. Just hold uf during the recovery animation and then hit j.2 real late. It hits real meaty and should give you some frame advantage or neutrality coming in on block. On hit you can do whatever pretty much. So for folks having trouble against wakeup moves, I'd advise seeing if this safe jump setup works against your particular matchup.

 

[Dereck m]

What about fighting lex? Seems like I can't do much on lex

 

[laudanum09]

After a blocked charge, you can d.1 him out of anything free combo, he's -23. Zone him out. He can't throw stuff out there without getting beat out by gun on startup. Just bait charge on wakeup and go for crossup pressure, but don't ever just jump in. Use the crossups to throw the move input off for reversals.

I haven't fought a good Lex so this is just on paper btw.

 

[CrazySlasher]

I've had some serious issues with the Flash v Joker, because once the Flash gets in, the Joker crumbles. any tips? can't zone him effectively either due to his parry.

Chattering teeth set ups maybe?

I find the The Flash pretty easy to keep out. Once you have a life lead, get some distance. Keep teeth out all the time, low cannister-gun all day. Let him vibrate his ass off, eventually he'll try to get in.

 

[Qwark28]

After a blocked charge, you can d.1 him out of anything. Free pressure. Zone him out. He can't throw stuff out there without getting beat out by gun on startup. Just bait charge on wakeup and go for crossup pressure, but don't ever just jump in. Use the crossups to throw the move input off for reversals.

I haven't fought a good Lex so this is just on paper btw.

what do you mean d1 him out of anything? his corp charge on block is full combo punishable, theres no reason to ever D1 him

 

[laudanum09]

Sorry, I confused the frames for Doomsday's charge and Lex's. Doomsday is only -9 after his charge. I'll edit my post.

 

[Gilbagz]

Some other green lantern specific stuff
- Punish lift with gunshot from further ranges. From sweep range, the best punish is a ji2 into combo. You do not have enough time to dash up and combo. The timing is fairly lenient. Other punish options include flower, sweep, crowbar and gun. But from sweep range take the ji2 into combo.
- Try to space yourself at the tip of his b+1 range. While the string is ridiculously good, its horrible on whiff. You can easily whiff punish using f+2,3, or if your on point, 3 into combo (standing 3 into rlg at max range does not combo however.) You can just block and parry the string but the timing is super strict, and GL can mix this up with b+1,2 to mess up your parry timing. At this range, I believe you can also punish lift with the ji2 combo.

As joker it looks like you just wanna hold that distance. Idk maybe you can use teeth to slowly push the lantern to the corner. While he can punish with lift, the teeth will catch him and push him further back to the corner.

 

[Ren21]

I've been having some extreme issues dealing with characters that have really strong neutral game (good hi/low, noticabely Nightwing) Honestly it feels like joker cannot contend against it. Ive tried everything to try to mix it up in neutral but the lack of hit confirms and ONE TOUCH from nightwing I lose 35%.

All of his mixups I cant punish, its ridiculous. I suppose in hindsight I should have recorded some of the matches (still can) but I feel like to beat someone with a neutral game like that all I can do is use different strings to throw him off guard because 2 1 teeth he can outpoke me with his d1 and get away so thats pointless.

 

[MetaSkipper]

Just thought I'd repost this in the Match Up section. Very character specific, but some anti-wakeup options.

Off a background bounce hard knockdown (close sweep probably works too): Teeth + F3 stuffs all of Doomsday wakeup options with proper timing. Don't need armor, but it probably eases up on the timing.

Teeth hits even wake-up Savage Blast from Green Arrow, can chase with J2, J3, B3, F3, or dash follow up​

 

[DarthArma]

Not the best play, I didnt grab as much as i could, but im just terrified of supermans block strings. Any tips or advice ? I picked batman for first match then joker for the last two. If you don't want to see the whole thing, I did a pretty cool set up to win the first match with joker @ 5:35

thanks in advance

 

[Cat]

We need a joker match up thread in order to go into detail about certain matches.

Joker Is a char that really relies on what you know about your opponent character and the different options he has against you.

Joker is very fundamental heavy in my opinion.
You need good spacing and reactions in order to whiff punish strings , react to your opponent after a teeth set up and punish accordingly, use his j3 in order for it to hit max distance or hit cross over jump ins, etc.

I'll try to go into detail on the chars I have played the most and what my thoughts/suggestions/ strategy is.

GAME IS STILL TO EARLY, SO DON'T TAKE ANYTHING I SAY AS BEING THE BEST ADVICE AND STRATEGY AS MY CHAR IS EVOLVING OVER TIME AND NEW THINGS ARE STILL BEING IMPLEMENTED IN MATCHES.

All other joker mains are suggested to posts tips and advice on what they know. Some ppl play certain chars more than me, so letting ppl here know what you have experienced is key to make this the best match up guide.

Don't think because you are not a well known player that your advice is not welcome or needed. Everyone's suggestions are welcome and some can be very helpful , that other players didn't take note off.

I'm still working on a Full Joker guide. But as I said before its a on going process. And shelling out a video this early would be sort of dumb since I know I don't have joker to his fullest potential just yet.

Anyways. Lets get this on the road.....

 

[Cat]

Match Videos ***
I'll post match videos in this section with a few notes on what mistakes and good things were done in the matches on the video.

Vs. Grundy

Here's a set against Showtimes Grundy.
There's still a lot I need to incorporate into joker that is effective , into my matches. So expect updates. There's a few things I gave a glimpse at during the match that ill point out. Still new in using it so did not take full advantage.

Notes:
• notice the use of jump back 3 to avoid grabs and get damage when hitting his armor grabs as well as beat jumps and built distance

• there's a bug that prevents joker from doing 11 into low tank combos as well as f23 into low tank. Pako said it will be worked on "someday"
Sometimes I forget and go for it before I realize it and it gets blocked

•At 15:12 push block set up. Still working on this. I'll post more about it soon. There was plenty more opportunities for it. If done right you can full combo off it.

•10:21 new 1 meter bnb combo

•16:04 reset with the background. Always make sure to take notice on positioning in the stage to take advantage of these

•17:38 great way to beat out wake up attacks. Especially those with armor. Still working on getting the full combo after as we'll as some dirty resets with 213 in the corner.

Again. Both me and Showtime still getting familiar with the game and our characters. So expect things to change over time. I'll keep this thread updated with new match videos and things to use in the future.

Ill post more notes when I get home from work and can analyze the video more.

Vs. CatWoman
Here's a ft3 set vs Starchargers Catwoman. I'll post notes on the match up later

 

[Cat]

** Character specific tips/tricks**
I'll post bullet points on each char, of things to look out for and things that work/don't work in the particular match up.

 

[Cat]

***Full detail strategy against Characters ***
•Here I will post a full analysis on the best strategy to use against each character.

•Things Such as preferred stages to pick, preferred position and distance (corner,mid screen , full screen). Best methods as well (zoning, aggressive, hybrid, etc)

•As well as punish certain moves and strings and with which combo, as well as the preferred ender)

 

[Qwark28]

Doomsday must be a legit 7-3
Deathstroke I think is dead even
He struggles vs chars that need to get in and can duck or armour his gunshots
He also struggles vs chars who wanna get in but can outzone him

joker is extremely mediocre midscreen with escapable setups, midscreen you either outplay your opponent or die.

in the corner some setups are almost inescapable which is nice, he still has to sacrifice some damage after a crossup combo to keep them in the corner though.

He needs either

Gunshot being 0 on block but hitting mid.
Faster teeth
9F sweep
Faster cannisters or at least neutral on block
212 last hit to be a real launcher

Any of these will make him competitive.

 

[Cat]

Please explain in more detail why doomsday is 7-3. What are the advantages that doomsday has? What are the options joker has? Who have you played with a good doomsday and how many matches was it?

I played about 30 matches vs scars doomsday the other day.
I think it's currently 6-4 doomsday.
But it shouldn't be as difficult whenever the bug that prevents him from doing certain combos (like 11 ex tank or 23 low tank) is fixed. He needs those as they are the best way to punish non ex shoulders.

 

[Qwark28]

Please explain in more detail why doomsday is 7-3. What are the advantages that doomsday has? What are the options joker has? Who have you played with a good doomsday and how many matches was it?

I played about 30 matches vs scars doomsday the other day.
I think it's currently 6-4 doomsday.
But it shouldn't be as difficult whenever the bug that prevents him from doing certain combos (like 11 ex tank or 23 low tank) is fixed. He needs those as they are the best way to punish non ex shoulders.

Doomsday gets in for free whenever he has meter, which he will build.
His trait is godlike and joker doesn't have a multi hit special to delay him coming in.
A good Doomsday will rarely, if ever, do a non-ex venom and even with the 11 glitch fixed it'll be a justframe ( which, because we're humans, can easily mean a D1 punish for trying to punish it ) and whenever he has meter, he can simply do a late EX venom and you wouldn't even confirm the difference since there's a very tight window to punish.

The corner works against Joker if doomsday gets a trait out, doesn't matter if you got him with a setup, give him just half a sec to pop it out and your corner pressure has ended and his has begun, he can punish most of the strings in the game on hit for heavy damage to more pressure.

Joker can't really zone, has ineffective midscreen setups and the corner is a double edged sword if he's not on point all the time. The way to win this MU is screw setups when he has meter and go for damage while hoping he runs out of meter so you can mediocrely zone or limit his movement.

I play vs Metzos who is a doomsday main every single week. This matchup is hella bad.

Gonna be posting alot in this thread, I play many matchups offline.