is raiden still a threat in tourny play?

[Jim]

I... PL teleports when you are the offensive. No way for your move to finish your animation and then your character to turn around and mash it out...

That is the part I think everyone that watched PL at Frausty Fostings don't get. They recite the frame data not realizing it is all from neutral. So unless your strategy against the Evo champion is to stand perfectly still until he randomly teleports behind you I see no way that they are going to consistently punish teleport. PL isn't a robot, he is going to make mistakes, Slips did punish his teleport more than once. But it was still an extremely useful tool for PL.

 

[NKZero]

- Isolated 33,4 and B3,1,2, don't give Raiden advantage on block, after last patch, that's right ?

- You can duck under Raiden projectile, even his Ex version ?

No I believe one is neutral on block and one is -1 on block or something (not that it's a bad thing). I believe the most recent frame data is out for Raiden so check it out. And yes you can duck under the EX version of his projectile.

I agree with everything you've said as well. Also most people don't think Raiden is top because nobody top level has used him to his fullest other than PL. Tools wise he is just a tough tough match for any character and he's a horrible match for some. A good or great Raiden player will keep unpredictable with his moves and that's when he's tricky.

As for the online warrior who BABAYABAMAAAAA's for fun gets eaten for breakfast by my Sub Zero

 

[Lulzlou]

the only problem i have is his D4 is pretty shit but other than that whats his issue?

I found a use for D4 so I don't think its that bad. You can link a teleport after D4. D4 is +15 on hit (from the frame data thread) and its been in good use for me. Just another footsie tool for me. I usually throw, poke, dash back+superman or do a cross-over after it. I never used it in a tournament play so I don't know how exactly useful it is in high level. I used it in casuals on some of the NoVA people I play with weekly and it worked well.

I have no idea if anyone else does this. I've only seen a few Raiden videos so not exactly sure. Don't play online either

 

[NYCj360]

Sektor, Sonya, CSZ, KL, They cant all be 5-5

I'm positive on the Sektor one.

I agree with every one of these. I have absolutely no problem vs raiden with CSZ. i myself see it as a 6-4, This is one of those few instances where i can say that CSZ has an answer for most of what raiden does.

 

[xenogorgeous]

I agree with every one of these. I have absolutely no problem vs raiden with CSZ. i myself see it as a 6-4, This is one of those few instances where i can say that CSZ has an answer for most of what raiden does.

lol, this is crazy, according some people ,CSZ can look so poor against others matchups .... and so, he can deal and handle "toe to toe" and "face to face" equal against the best of this game ?

Would love to see a summary explanation about CSZ tools x Raiden weapons, hehe

 

[M2Dave]

lol, this is crazy, according some people ,CSZ can look so poor against others matchups .... and so, he can deal and handle "toe to toe" and "face to face" equal against the best of this game ?

Would love to see a summary explanation about CSZ tools x Raiden weapons, hehe

This is a heavy match up based game, so it's not hard to believe that Cyber Sub does well vs Raiden. A concise explanation would be nice, indeed, for those of us who don't play either character.

 

[NYCj360]

lol, this is crazy, according some people ,CSZ can look so poor against others matchups .... and so, he can deal and handle "toe to toe" and "face to face" equal against the best of this game ?

Would love to see a summary explanation about CSZ tools x Raiden weapons, hehe

Well the one thing you have to remember is that every character has that one character that gives them the most problems. It doesnt matter if that character that gives you problems just so happens to suck, what matters is that the character has a unique set of tools to fight your character.

1) The fact that dive kick auto corrects on any teleport gives raiden issues. Its not crazy damage but it does change raidens anti air options and Raiden is guessing just as much as CSZ is guessing in this match up, one has to scout teleports and the other has to scout dive kicks, the fact is that if CSZ dive kicks and gets blocked, the only punish raiden has is superman which is about 8%, which is the same amount of damage that CSZ goes for when dive kicking, Risk/reward is equal here. If superman punish is mistimed, you just gave CSZ the oppourtunity to 43% you or make you lose 2 meters, your choice.
2)Ice parry between all of Raidens good strings are EASY, and once you condition a raiden to not finish strings you can jump out of pressure and put him in a bad situation, when you jump over raiden you get advantage, either he stays stills and blocks your jip, or he teleports and goes right into the trajectory of your jip without CSZ turning around and gets full punished. (Raiden has options but is limited )
3)Dive kick over any raiden projectile is a problem for raiden, not for the 8 % from across screen, but for the fact that if CSZ wants to burn a meter, raiden will eat 18% from across screen for attempting to zone.

CSZ's overall momentum actually ends up throwing Raiden off of his normal game which is the effect that Raiden has on the rest of the cast. If Raiden tries to superman an airborn CSZ, close dive kick on reaction wins. That is if the superman is atleast half screen away.

IF you have any question on a specific matchup question ill be able to answer it, as of right now i cant think straight long enough at work.

 

[Mt. Mutombo]

Of course he's still a threat man...he has only a handful of MU that are either 5-5 or 5.5-4.5 and that 5.5-4.5 being CSZ, i've been playing some high level raidens with my csz and it's been a smooth ride.

...lol just read all of the csz input. Love being right lol. Dive kick owns all!

 

[GNG Iniquity]

I've played PL's raiden with my sektor. Is their anyway you can tell me how that is 6-4 in Sektor's favor?

Please don't say its because his jab is 6 frames and you can punish the tele. PL teleports when you are the offensive. No way for your move to finish your animation and then your character to turn around and mash it out.

Raiden players who abuse tele or dont know when to use it...thats a different story.

Sadly, I think most people believe tournament level Raidens to follow the braindead online formula.

Teleport 334/sweep/throw/b312 repeat x 1,000.

I wish they did this. It'd be a lot easier to beat them.

 

[NYCj360]

Sadly, I think most people believe tournament level Raidens to follow the braindead online formula.

Teleport 334/sweep/throw/b312 repeat x 1,000.

I wish they did this. It'd be a lot easier to beat them.

Those i can beat with my eyes closed, that is unless they have a no bar connection, which they usually do.

 

[Theme]

Sadly, I think most people believe tournament level Raidens to follow the braindead online formula.

Teleport 334/sweep/throw/b312 repeat x 1,000.

I wish they did this. It'd be a lot easier to beat them.

Really ? Because I think this the most cheapest. I can NOT punish Raiden online's teleport to reaction. Theres just no way. I can beat these Raidens if I get out of their pressure, but its difficult because they just run away again. I wouldn't say Im a scrub, in fact, I think Im pretty good, but I lose to this type of shit online. Offline is a totally different story.

 

[xenogorgeous]

IF you have any question on a specific matchup question ill be able to answer it, as of right now i cant think straight long enough at work.

Thanks a lot, man !! I love CSZ and he is one of my favourite, glad to know he is not that dog shit that once he was labeled when game first came out .... in fact, every new trick that people discover about him is welcome ..... and Glue did a good job showing a couple of them !!

 

[Maxter]

i dont believe raiden is even top 5, he has just good defensive options, his offensive sux, and his best strings are interruptable, and once you learn how to bait his teleport even to punish on block raiden is garbage, he is still good tho, but he is not that awesome, its just my opinion and some matches experiences, still i use him and will go with him next tournament, along with cage. cyblax and possible sektor. when are you coming back to NY brady? i would like to play against that raiden of yours, i know you are good with him even though he is not your new main.

 

[truendymion]

Raiden is #1. Who beats him?

 

[Bidu]

I honestly couldn't think anyone that has advantage over him... lol I believe of his hardest match ups is Cyber SZ, but even so, i'd say it's 5.5-4.5 in CSZ's favor.

 

[Big Pampering]

uhmm, what is raidens answer to all the armor thats in this game?

 

[lazybird123]

Raiden's worst match up is actually Reptile, but CSZ and Sektor are also good candidates

 

[G4S Claude VonStroke]

Raiden's worst match up Sonya. I don't see how reptile can be his worst matchup at all. Also sektor is not his worst matchup by any means.

 

[truendymion]

uhmm, what is raidens answer to all the armor thats in this game?

Teleport of course. Can't hit what you can't touch...

 

[Big Pampering]

Teleport of course. Can't hit what you can't touch...

It becomes a total guessing game, which I think will be in raidens favor, it revolves on whether raiden will end his string in a teleport or not.

 

[GhosT]

I have been using raiden for over a month now. while I'm not as skilled as a lot of you. What i have found is that raidens teleport is not overwhelming by itself. Imo its actually pretty punishable if you have fast normals or specials. If not a D1 will do the trick. A Sign of a good raiden is one that uses the teleport not for offense but in defense. When i teleport to get inside and deal damage i almost always pay for it. From what i have seen the better raidens are using footsies to get their opponent in range and when they go for a string thats when they use teleport. Depending on the string you can jump in and punish, electric fly, dash 212, theres a lot of options. But once again I'm not considering myself a top raiden. but when i stay focused and use the teleport strictly as a counter offensive move it works a lot better for me.

With that being said I think raiden is still viable to win majors, he has the tools needed, but you will have to play him right, and like always skill imo still overcomes close match ups. I think if played to his potential he can beat any character, but like always its easier said than done, and in the right hands he is easily top 3. but thats just my two cents.

More than anything what teleport gives him is the ability to get the hell out of the corner. IF need be you can teleport and block then retreat. its certainly a great asset many characters lack. But after patches its not as powerful an offensive tool as it used to be. The reason i Enjoy plaing raiden= within my inner circle of friends who play, most of them pick powerful rushdown characters, cage, reptile, sonya, kabal. I found raiden a natural counter for their play styles just by picking the right time to teleport and attack, or using his good footsie game to land a B3 into combo. I haven't seen a lot of raiden in tournaments since early when JOP was using him, and I'm excited for this weekend to watch brady and see what he's using to deal with the variety of charchters I'm sure he will see, I think raiden can be a pain to deal with, but at the same time if your not smart you can get blown up. He has the tools to win, lets see if anyone can go on a good run with him?

 

[Shawi]

I think raiden's game is lost in the air. Every time he jumps he must be punished which is why Sektor is probably his worst matchup. That's close to 40% with 1 bar of meter.

 

[truendymion]

I think raiden's game is lost in the air. Every time he jumps he must be punished which is why Sektor is probably his worst matchup. That's close to 40% with 1 bar of meter.

But that's such an easy adjustment for Raiden: just stop jumping. He doesn't need to jump for mobility.

 

[truendymion]

It becomes a total guessing game, which I think will be in raidens favor, it revolves on whether raiden will end his string in a teleport or not.

Exactly. Sometimes I wonder what the game would be like if Raiden couldn't cancel into teleport, maybe instead have a link off of fast recovering normals...So you know there are only a few things he can end with a tele and if you scout it you can punish. It would definitely reduce the bullshit.

 

[Z-911-Z]

Seeing this topic title, I feel it should be followed by "do cows go moo?".