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Question I'm having problems starting up a Sub-Zero combo.

Durango

Durango

Enhancer
Some characters, like Johnny Cage, Kung Lao, and Raiden, seem to have ease starting up their combos just from dashing-in and starting it. As Sub-Zero, my strong linkups come from either < FP into BP (Back Y, X) then freeze or BP FP BP (Y X Y). These not only have bad startup time, they go over the enemy's head. I feel forced to rely on freeze and ice clone to start up a combo.

Is there any way I can dash up to someone and link into a combo that does > 23% damage without being forced to freeze them first?
 
Kikuichimonji

Kikuichimonji

Noob
22 is Sub's best poking string. It is very fast, cannot be jumped over easily, is safe on block, and can be hit-confirmed into a freeze on hit.

Sub Zero has to freeze in a combo to get respectable damage. If you don't want to have to hit-confirm your combos, go play another character. This is like complaining about how Kung Lao has to start his juggles with his spin. No shit he has to, but it's a very good way to start the combo. Why have more than 1 way to start a combo if your 1 way is very versatile and practical?

212 hits crouchers. in b12, the second hit is an overhead and hits crouchers.
 
Durango

Durango

Enhancer
Alright, that helps a lot. 2,2 helps, but now I have another question.

Against zoners, like Kitana or Kano, I have a ridiculously hard time keeping on them or punishing them from fans or cannonballs.
 
Hella Pogi

Hella Pogi

Noob
You can slide right under fans and if you have enough health its possible to trade and freeze her - although I don't think thats a good idea at the end of the day but it works for me a lot just have to watch out when she builds a x-ray.
 
Dark_Rob

Dark_Rob

Noob
Durango said:
Against zoners, like Kitana or Kano, I have a ridiculously hard time keeping on them or punishing them from fans or cannonballs.
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Yea,you and me both. Its hard man, you gotta be real patient. You have to dash block your way in alot. Im confident against any member of the cast if I can put Sub in they're face. But with those two(Kitana and Kano) getting Sub into that range is like threading a needle blindfolded, especially if the player playing them is good to.
I have the most success if I can put them in the corner where Sub dominates, but getting them there is hell. Im confident Il be able to learn the matchup. I just need more time to play vs those characters.
 
Samsung Crunchy

Samsung Crunchy

Studying all of her moves
jump 1 into 2 2 3 ice clone is fairly good at controlling space and opening possibilties. Using 2 is also advantageous because the ice sword has its own hit box and prevents characters from jumping over Sub-Zero. Main one I've seen used, would be 1 2 1 into ice ball or 1 2 3 into slide.
 
TAMANAPANTS

TAMANAPANTS

Noob
Mechacide said:
2,2 and 2,1,2 are very good combo-starters. You should be getting freezes from Ice Clones as well.
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I don't agree with 2 1 2 - it has gaps in it that can be punished/jumped out of by good players and then you are under pressure. You can leave a nice Ice Clone on block, but if your opponent has a move with armour they will eat you up on reaction and if you don't leave the clone then you can be punished anyway - any Sub who is abusing 2 1 2 as a block string be warned.

2 2 all day - the 50/50 it leaves you in on block alone is great for making your opponent guess the next move, or do something dumb. 2 2 has deceptive range too!
 
Kikuichimonji

Kikuichimonji

Noob
I don't think 21 is bad necessarily. The 1 is pretty fast and it's even on block as far as I tested. It's just that you have little use to favor it over 22 because 21 puts them airborne. It's probably better on block than 22 because of frames but it doesn't have the ridiculous hitbox of the 22 ice sword.
 
Zandorath

Zandorath

Noob
You only do 2,2. Nothing else unless you are 100% certain your jump in punch is gonna land, then you an do b2,1 for 2% or so extra dmg.

2,2 xx Iceblast ==> Midscreen if you see that he isnt blocking your string
2,2,3 xx Iceblast ==> if you have them cornered and they are not blocking.
2,2,3 xx Clone ==> Makes the string very safe vs alot of the cast and gets the clone out there
2,2, xx Slide // 2,2,3 xx Slide ==> Don't over use since slide is punished with full combo.
2,2,2 ==> Very unsafe on block ,but the last hit is mid(overhead), good to use if you have trained them to block low for the slide.

2,2 neutral 2,2 ==>On blocking opponent is a mixup since your opponent will expect one of the finishing moves from above. Gives you chip dmg and awards respectable meter.
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Dash-in is very good for 2,2 aswell since it is very hard to jump out of.

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VS full screen zoning, never trade with a ice blast, if you only get a slide on a frozen target, you will not win out on it. I like to throw out EX Ice Blast, they will be frozen for a LOONG time, full combo. Otherwize I dash + block alot.
 
TAMANAPANTS

TAMANAPANTS

Noob
Full screen zoning with Sub is dumb - agreed. 3/4-2/3 screen and your trade means you still have time to recover and hit hard making the trade worth it.....even if the trade is you force them to use their breaker! Some characters trades are pretty bad for Sub regardless though - Reptile springs to mind as you get juggled from poison ball and no time for anything useful. Scaled naked slide after freeze on a trade does mean you end up worse off, but if that's all you can get from a bad choice you should still take it of course.
 
K

kisan

Noob
Hella Pogi said:
You can slide right under fans and if you have enough health its possible to trade and freeze her - although I don't think thats a good idea at the end of the day but it works for me a lot just have to watch out when she builds a x-ray.
Click to expand...
you can't slide under fans along with most other projectiles. I think reptiles spit and maybe shivas can be slid under but you're just going to get hit against 90% of the casts projectiles
 
TAMANAPANTS

TAMANAPANTS

Noob
kisan said:
you can't slide under fans along with most other projectiles. I think reptiles spit and maybe shivas can be slid under but you're just going to get hit against 90% of the casts projectiles
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As far as I have worked out so far you can slide under:

Scorpion - Spear
Reptile - Spit
Kano - Throwing Star
Stryker - Pistols
Baraka - Fireball
Shiva - Fireball

Most of the time you need to be pre-emptive so to do it with caution.
 
C

Col

Noob
i found out today you can slide under sonyas (not her ex) and sektors projectiles aswell as those mentioned :)


im stuck on what to do when i get people in the corner.. i just hit 222 over n over ... seems like im missing something (tho it does the job)
 
Klaudikus

Klaudikus

Noob
I'm going to test sliding under Sektor's X-Ray projectile... if I recall correctly, the projectile seems pretty big and hip level so it's pretty unlikely.
 
TAMANAPANTS

TAMANAPANTS

Noob
Col said:
i found out today you can slide under sonyas (not her ex) and sektors projectiles aswell as those mentioned :)


im stuck on what to do when i get people in the corner.. i just hit 222 over n over ... seems like im missing something (tho it does the job)
Click to expand...
spamming 2 2 2 should actually be getting you killed. On block that string is really unsafe. Some other options might be:

- F+4 (overhead) hit confirm into ice ball.
- Ice clone, Dash, Ice Puddle
- 2 2, short pause, 2 2.
- Close clone, Dash, B2....and then whatever you like - dash 2 2/let it become unblockable for freeze/ dash grab...etc
- Cross up 1/2, cross up 1/2, 2 2 (followed with forward throw, or 4 xx Slide if you see them standing)
- Forward throw.

There is loads you can do, but 2 2 2 against anyone who knows it's unsafe means you are giving up your pressure. I think close clone, dash 2 2 is extremely solid frankly and leaves your opponent with less options to retaliate - just be wary of characters with teleports or moves with armour.....or X-Ray!
 
Death By Nines

Death By Nines

Catharsis
Col said:
im stuck on what to do when i get people in the corner.. i just hit 222 over n over ... seems like im missing something (tho it does the job)
Click to expand...
As Tamanapants rightly said... 2,2,2 is massively unsafe. Do that against a competent player and you eat full combo if blocked. Use Ice clone traps to get your opponent scared to push buttons. 2,2 mixups are really good as well because your opponent has to guess what's coming next.
 
Durango

Durango

Enhancer
Wow, punishing Ermac players is hell. They do telekinetic slam, you block it, and if you slide, they block and counter. You freeze, they block and counter.
 
Kikuichimonji

Kikuichimonji

Noob
Durango said:
Wow, punishing Ermac players is hell. They do telekinetic slam, you block it, and if you slide, they block and counter. You freeze, they block and counter.
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Yeah, that's why you dash block to get closer so you can do your bullshit 22/ice clone strategies.
 
Durango

Durango

Enhancer
That's another thing. Should I be doing 2/2 or 2/1/2?

The latter gives me more time to decide if I want to ice clone, slide, or continue attacking. It doesn't give me as much damage if I connect with a freeze, but it doesn't feel as wreckless an option and I can always follow up after they wakeup.
 
Dark_Rob

Dark_Rob

Noob
Durango said:
That's another thing. Should I be doing 2/2 or 2/1/2?

The latter gives me more time to decide if I want to ice clone, slide, or continue attacking. It doesn't give me as much damage if I connect with a freeze, but it doesn't feel as wreckless an option and I can always follow up after they wakeup.
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2,2 all day. 2,1,2 has gaps in it that can be interupted by a player who knows what up. Practice hit confirming 2,2. Really watch it. You have time to react if your paying attention. If 2,2 hits,link in a freeze. If not continue with 4,clone or 4,slide if they are blocking high(Dont abuse this, its risky and can be fuzzy blocked)
Also, as Tamanapants mentioned earlier the 50/50 you get just off of 2,2 is worth its weight in gold.
 
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