I Hate Wavedashing: A Rant And Discussion Starter

[DarkSado]

what make a game traditional fighting?

 

[spidey300]

If anything it should be faster. Mk doesn't have to be this slow footsies and neutral fighter. It should be about trying to beat each other up as much as possible and degeneracy. It's like an anime fighter developed by Western devs. You want footsies and neutral? Play 3d or sf

 

[craftycheese]

Dash recoveries in Inj2 I think are almost double what an SFV dash is. Dashes in SFV are similar to MK11. Almost no recovery and unreactable.

So it sounds kinda similar in the way you cannot cancel mid dash into a normal or duck or whatever then, correct? You have to time it to where your move comes out when you're done dashing?

 

[DeftMonk]

So it sounds kinda similar in the way you cannot cancel mid dash into a normal or duck or whatever then, correct? You have to time it to where your move comes out when you're done dashing?

Ya but back dashes in inj2 had one thing that separates them in a huge way... they had invincibility frames.

 

[Vslayer]

I mean, I'm fine with dash cancels they make the movement fluid imo. I went back to IJ2 to see if I remembered Robin stuff and man, the dashing is SLOW. Like you're stuck in mud. Wave dashing is OD when mastered, and it's scary when you're on the receiving end, but jump kicks are a thing, fortunately, and unfortunately.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

I don't think some characters like Sonya and Liu Kang should be capable of skate/fly/running across the screen to get good oki on full screen knockdown, and some characters like Noob look like they're walking in the mud when they try to wave dash.

Either give every character a wave dash or remove it IMO.

Dash cancelling into specials isn't a problem IMO. But the discrepancy in wave dashing speed is another arbitrary allocation of the games mechanics, like KB viability, U2/U3 usability that really annoy me about this game.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Kotal "he's so big how does he move so fast" Kahn

 

[DeftMonk]

Kotal "he's so big how does he move so fast" Kahn

referring to that awesome video aquaman posted?

 

[Eldriken]

Kotal "he's so big how does he move so fast" Kahn

Kotal's wavedash is sickening.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Kotal's wavedash is sickening.

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY
WHY DOES HE HAVE A STAGGER?

 

[Olcadan13]

id say the only problem with wave dashing is that some characters get the short end of the stick

example: noob who is LITERALLY BY DESIGN a footsies and whiff punish character has a wavedash so ass that it's literally faster to walk

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

id say the only problem with wave dashing is that some characters get the short end of the stick

example: noob who is LITERALLY BY DESIGN a footsies and whiff punish character has a wavedash so ass that it's literally faster to walk

That's what's so funny lmao. I think I've actually stopped fwd and back dashing unless I'm juggling a combo or cancelling into special. Straightup walk back or fwd is superior for noob imo.

 

[Icefyre]

You can't plan or bait a whiff punish in this game in neutral against peoeple who know how the game works due to the ability to modify normal ranges with dash cancels. The range you're required to stand at against most characters to both accomodate for natural and max distance dash cancel range puts you into optimal zoning range. Hence the footsies aren't happening, or if a whiff punish does occur in raw neutral, it's often a fluke that's reactionary. Dunno if this makes enough sense.

Did you not watch KIT? Or are we assuming that nobody there knew how to play the game? Pretty sure I saw more than a few whiff punishes in every match in top 8. Then again, I can't remember off hand if any of the top 8 characters used are guilty of abusing the mechanic in the way you're describing, so remind me if that's the case.

 

[Dreamcatcher]

I love playing like an asshole with Kotal. Wavedashing into a half screen mid? Sign me up. Lol

 

[Chernyy Volk]

Did you not watch KIT? Or are we assuming that nobody there knew how to play the game? Pretty sure I saw more than a few whiff punishes in every match in top 8. Then again, I can't remember off hand if any of the top 8 characters used are guilty of abusing the mechanic in the way you're describing, so remind me if that's the case.

I was at KIT lol

 

[dungeonsector]

Dash cancelling into specials isn't a problem IMO. But the discrepancy in wave dashing speed is another arbitrary allocation of the games mechanics, like KB viability, U2/U3 usability that really annoy me about this game.

I definitely agree, this game has way too many mechanics given to characters for absolutely no reason.

 

[John_NX]

Have you all seen kitana's backdash? She can't even move properly!

 

[Icefyre]

I was at KIT lol

Are you intentionally missing the point?

 

[ExpectFlames]

You know @Chernyy Volk gets a lot of shit, I'm not sure its debatable how much skill he has though. I mean its obvious hes really good he just thinks super different about the game. Personally I think WD is super problamatic because it's not universal tech it's essentially run that's only useful for certain characters. It doesnt feel scrubby but there are times when I'm hit with a fullscreen fireball by kang and hes riight in front of me without a delay feels wrong.

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

Why do people always ask for universality? Even in Tekken wavedashes aren't made equal and some characters don't rely on them

 

[Chernyy Volk]

Why do people always ask for universality? Even in Tekken wavedashes aren't made equal and some characters don't rely on them

I already addressed this point.

 

[ExpectFlames]

Why do people always ask for universality? Even in Tekken wavedashes aren't made equal and some characters don't rely on them

For me personally i like to think the building blocks of a fighting game would system tech I.E. wake ups jumps breakaway things that are universal, character specific tech things unique to a single character and matchup tech things unique to a particular matchup. Most fighters and there most basic function kinda look like this. The problem with WD is it unnecessarily introduces complications to what should be the simplest thing to do in a video game move. It breaks the system philosophy by arbitrarily making tiers off of a mechanic that lets be honest less 10% of the community will use consistently.
If every character could WD like kotal would it be fair probably not, but combining the fact that every character has a string that will carry them 1/2 screen with insane telewalking is kinda strong. But again just my opinion.

 

[THTB]

For me personally i like to think the building blocks of a fighting game would system tech I.E. wake ups jumps breakaway things that are universal, character specific tech things unique to a single character and matchup tech things unique to a particular matchup. Most fighters and there most basic function kinda look like this. The problem with WD is it unnecessarily introduces complications to what should be the simplest thing to do in a video game move. It breaks the system philosophy by arbitrarily making tiers off of a mechanic that lets be honest less 10% of the community will use consistently.
If every character could WD like kotal would it be fair probably not, but combining the fact that every character has a string that will carry them 1/2 screen with insane telewalking is kinda strong. But again just my opinion.

You don't want Cetrion or Baraka with a wavedash, and some of the cast would possibly be worse without wavedashing.

Not everything needs to be universal, especially in a game where diversity is already a complaint.

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

For me personally i like to think the building blocks of a fighting game would system tech I.E. wake ups jumps breakaway things that are universal, character specific tech things unique to a single character and matchup tech things unique to a particular matchup. Most fighters and there most basic function kinda look like this. The problem with WD is it unnecessarily introduces complications to what should be the simplest thing to do in a video game move. It breaks the system philosophy by arbitrarily making tiers off of a mechanic that lets be honest less 10% of the community will use consistently.
If every character could WD like kotal would it be fair probably not, but combining the fact that every character has a string that will carry them 1/2 screen with insane telewalking is kinda strong. But again just my opinion.

Tiers are always based off who take advantage of a mechanic.universality is never the answer.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

You don't want Cetrion or Baraka with a wavedash, and some of the cast would possibly be worse without wavedashing.

Not everything needs to be universal, especially in a game where diversity is already a complaint.

??? Bro Cetrion does have a wavedash, hers is one of the few I can actually do. It isn't lightning speed skating like sonya and liu but she has one far better than half the cast imo.
Actually I'd say Baraka's is half ass decent as well compared to Kitana Kollector types. Again, nowhere near the speed of light like sonya and liu but its workable.