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Question how can sub create a safe jump?

N

noobharvester

Noob
what strings do i have to do to make a safe jump for sub?

also, what kind of advantages does d4 give? i see that a lot from brady and shoryuken. what can follow up after d4?
 
P

Playpal

Noob
If you want a safe jump while the opponent is standing, B121 can give you that. In fact, some people find B121 so useful they choose that over his other bnbs. Obviously the opponent needs be grounded, they don't force them to the ground like JC's nut punch or Kabal's F4.

D4 is ridiculously useful. First off it's 8 frames, faster than anyone else's D4 and on hit it gives enough frame advantage to follow up with a guaranteed 212 or 22 or whatever. With most characters I use D1 as my main poke, but as SZ I use D4. Use D4 to escape pressure or add pressure.
 
MortySeinfeld

MortySeinfeld

Noob
b121 creates a safe jump setup for Sub. If the string hits, the 1 puts the enemy in a stagger state that allows you to follow up appropriately.

You can create a mixup with b121 (overhead, overhead) and b124 (overhead, low). Be careful using this string because it can be punished.

d4 is for pressure/poking, it has a pretty good hitbox. d4 xx ice-clone will pretty much always leave a clone behind which can be useful for moving the opponent into the corner and creating space. This is also useful for mitigating pressure, but there are faster strings.
 
Bidu

Bidu

the CHILL of DESPAIR
Playpal said:
If you want a safe jump while the opponent is standing, B121 can give you that. In fact, some people find B121 so useful they choose that over his other bnbs. Obviously the opponent needs be grounded, they don't force them to the ground like JC's nut punch or Kabal's F4.

D4 is ridiculously useful. First off it's 8 frames, faster than anyone else's D4 and on hit it gives enough frame advantage to follow up with a guaranteed 212 or 22 or whatever. With most characters I use D1 as my main poke, but as SZ I use D4. Use D4 to escape pressure or add pressure.
Click to expand...
Basically what he said, but try avoiding D4 at close range or when you opponent is crossing up with jumps against you. D4 has good range and it's fast, true, but in these situations I prefer to use D1 or D3 since they are faster and practically safe.

You can mix D4 with Ice Clone and/or Spartan Kick (overhead) followed by Ice Clone or Ice Blast. For instance you D4 your opponent like two times and if you notice they are crouch blocking very defensibly then you could follow with Spartan Kick. Or you could just D4~Ice Clone to create space when needed.
 
NRF CharlieMurphy

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Bidu said:
Basically what he said, but try avoiding D4 at close range or when you opponent is crossing up with jumps against you. D4 has good range and it's fast, true, but in these situations I prefer to use D1 or D3 since they are faster and practically safe.

You can mix D4 with Ice Clone and/or Spartan Kick (overhead) followed by Ice Clone or Ice Blast. For instance you D4 your opponent like two times and if you notice they are crouch blocking very defensibly then you could follow with Spartan Kick. Or you could just D4~Ice Clone to create space when needed.
Click to expand...
F+4 isn't guaranteed like his 2 pressure after a d4. Its risky to do. There is less risk and more reward in just doing either 2,2,4~clone or 2,1,2~clone after a d4 and they block.
But yeah b1,2,1 is the only thing that gives him a safe jump. Other than freezing an opponent.
 
N

noobharvester

Noob
Playpal said:
If you want a safe jump while the opponent is standing, B121 can give you that. In fact, some people find B121 so useful they choose that over his other bnbs. Obviously the opponent needs be grounded, they don't force them to the ground like JC's nut punch or Kabal's F4.

D4 is ridiculously useful. First off it's 8 frames, faster than anyone else's D4 and on hit it gives enough frame advantage to follow up with a guaranteed 212 or 22 or whatever. With most characters I use D1 as my main poke, but as SZ I use D4. Use D4 to escape pressure or add pressure.
Click to expand...
do you have to dash to land the 212/22 after a hit of d4?
 
P

Playpal

Noob
noobharvester said:
do you have to dash to land the 212/22 after a hit of d4?
Click to expand...
Depends on the distance, although usually not. If the person is crouching however then it's likely you have to, since D4 on a crouching opponent causes push back. D4 on block also gives push back.
 
GGA soonk

GGA soonk

ĜĞÅ §ººñ|<®©™
How in the hell are you guys under the impression that B121 gives a safe jump? I guess if you like eating uppercuts or watching your opponent jump away.
 
zee

zee

Icy
soonk said:
How in the hell are you guys under the impression that B121 gives a safe jump? I guess if you like eating uppercuts or watching your opponent jump away.
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^This. B121 simply gives Sub a safe dash-in. You should master the timing such that your attack happens around about the frame they come out of stun. This makes it a complete guess for them to predict whether you're coming in for a throw or more pressure strings.

They can't jump out of a throw if you time it right. Jip B12, Ice Blast, Jip B121, dash throw gives more damage than Sub's strongest mid-screen Bnb: Jip B12, Ice Blast, Njp, dash 1, B12, 212~Slide. They have all the more reason to fear a throw after B121, thus opening them up to pressure strings.
 
Fatality_check

Fatality_check

Never Gonna Give
Yeah, I've had people jump before. That and the fact the string can be interrupted anyway as he does that gay little twirl. I use it sparingly. I don't jip a huge amount if its dangerous. I'll just dash d4 and then chip them after leaving a clone or whatever.
 
N

noobharvester

Noob
Playpal said:
Depends on the distance, although usually not. If the person is crouching however then it's likely you have to, since D4 on a crouching opponent causes push back. D4 on block also gives push back.
Click to expand...
Okay so basically if:

1. d4 HIT on stand blick, 212 guaranteed?
2. d4 BLOCKED on low block, 212 not guaranteed?

Ever try this online? In my experience people just jump after my d4. But I also dash because it seems the first 2 will whiff. So you're saying if the d4 hits I don't need to dash I can just start 212'ing and they'll get nailed?
 
P

Playpal

Noob
noobharvester said:
Okay so basically if:

1. d4 HIT on stand blick, 212 guaranteed?
2. d4 BLOCKED on low block, 212 not guaranteed?

Ever try this online? In my experience people just jump after my d4. But I also dash because it seems the first 2 will whiff. So you're saying if the d4 hits I don't need to dash I can just start 212'ing and they'll get nailed?
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I probably should have tested D4 more. D4 midscreen grants push back and you have to dash in, so 212 is not guaranteed. In the corner though, if D4 hits on a standing opponent then you will not have push back and you can get a guaranteed 212.

If opponent is blocking it or is hit crouching in the corner then 212 is not guaranteed, and anywhere midscreen whether hit or block, crouching or standing will not give you a guaranteed 212.
 
Dark_Rob

Dark_Rob

Noob
If D4 hits you are at frame advantage. You can quickly dash in and 2,2 or 2,1 and all they can do is block. Even on a blocked D4 if you sense they will jump 2,2 will knock them out of the air.
 
N

noobharvester

Noob
Guess I'll have to mix in 22's then because noobs online always jump out but when I watch pros play all the subs eer do is 212's man. Wish it was so simple but noobs don't even know what to respect and end up getting out of jail for free. geez.

lol ::-o
 
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