RYX
BIG PUSHER
6-4 to me. Raiden and Lao are much much worse.You guys are forgetting Sektor who nearly annihilates him...
Corner Sektor lol ggs, corner the above two and they're out anyway.
6-4 to me. Raiden and Lao are much much worse.You guys are forgetting Sektor who nearly annihilates him...
KL is definitely worse than Raiden. Any attempt at zoning is easily punished by Tele~3. To compete you have to close the distance which is equally as frustrating because KL is better in close range. 7-3 KL.I feel like all online Kabal's are like this tbh. It's fun to shit on them but you won't learn a damn thing from the MU.
back on topic, I think his second worst MU has to be Raiden or KL.
It's one of his harder 6-4 MU's but it's not a hard MU by any means. I wouldn't say he annihilates him either.You guys are forgetting Sektor who nearly annihilates him...
He can't zone because both his projectiles get punished by Teleport on reaction. His Straight Missile does elimate the threat of Shadow Slide though. Shadow Tackle and Straight Missile both cause knockdown, so it's an even trade. However, when Slide trades with it, Sektor has zoning advantage.Sek can't reliably zone either.
I'd love to give a more detailed opinion but I'll have to wait till the weekend when I can get on an actual keyboard.
That's true.Tackle has wakeup invincibility, by the way. > missiles on a trade
Noob's footsies are highly underrated.
He posted his argument a while ago for me on his Sektor MU thread. I can't copy paste on tablet though.
Punishing a Tackle/Slide on block from anywhere on the screen isn't that practical bro. iaTU is like 16f and you have to count the 3f startup of the jump. That leaves you with a 2f window for error. It may work a few time(being generous), but it's not a practical punish, and good luck trying that against the slide. Yor better off keeping it simple by reacting with iaTU fullscreen and jumping then TU midscreen. Scorpion can punish blocked tackle/slide with spear and even with an 8f window for error it's not that easy.Snip
Wait, he was serious about using iaTU to punish shadow on block anywhere?Punishing a Tackle/Slide on block from anywhere on the screen isn't that practical bro. iaTU is like 16f and you have to count the 3f startup of the jump. That leaves you with a 2f window for error. It may work a few time(being generous), but it's not a practical punish, and good luck trying that against the slide. Yor better off keeping it simple by reacting with iaTU fullscreen and jumping then TU midscreen. Scorpion can punish blocked tackle/slide with spear and even with an 8f window for error it's not that easy.
LBSH, you don't need armor to escape midscreen pressure. It just makes it simple. Sektor doesn't have JCage pressure no matter the size of the hurtbox. Upknee and d3 are both good tools to get some real estate. Noob has enough to keep him from going ape shit. The fact that Sektor doen't have armor and a good reversal is more of a factor in this MU. It hurts him anywhere on the screen.
Sektor is facter but Noob 's normals have better priority, so footsies isn't a problem.
The MU is only 6-4 because of the iaTU being a great anti-zoning special. Other than that he's no more of a threat than Reptile is. Kabal, Smoke, and KL are his only 3-7 MU.
Yup he's serious. I've never seen it done, and even if it's possible Sektor has easier methods of punishing shadows.Wait, he was serious about using iaTU to punish shadow on block anywhere?
It would only work for point-blank punishes. Projectile frame advantage fluctuates depending on distance. This doesn't even work from anywhere outside point blank.
Raiden is definitely an annoying MU. the only thing that stops it from being 7-3 is the fact that Noob can compete with Raiden in close range.Not exactly MU related but after a blocked EX TU, won't Noob's F33 be faster than anything Sektor does? Since it's -6 That makes F3 11 frames, and Sek's fastest poke at that situation is 12.. A one frame window isn't much but it could be useful.
I still think Raiden is a horrible match-up though.
That teleport is the bane of my existence. ;_;Raiden is definitely an annoying MU. the only thing that stops it from being 7-3 is the fact that Noob can compete with Raiden in close range.
I actually checked out what THTB said, and he's correct. Tackle/Slide are only -21 within sweep distance. It's no point in trying to use iaTU on block when you only have a 3f window for punishment other than to look flashy.RYX, K.O.E_18, THTB
Yes I was serious...but I shoulda specified. It's useful for when you block it at just outside sweep distance for example and cannot punish with anything else because you're out of B2 range for example. Obviously at full screen you can just iaTU on reaction. It's hard to punish on block with that move but it's do-able, that's my point. With enough practice it will become easy eventually it's just that this MU is barely played out.
As for the pressure, yes it's very dangerous when Sektor has a 6 frame jab and has a ton of variations off it, and everything connects on a crouch-blocking Noob. Noob isn't getting anything out other than a 6 frame attack if Sektor keeps pestering him with the jab and then further mixing it up. It's tough.
Now if Noob cannot zone and can be rushed down easily, how is this a 4-6?
RYX these were Grolarbears thoughts on the MU when we discussed it last year. I used to play Cage when we had this convo.All right. Just wanted to take this out of that thread because it is off topic. Noob can effectively zone JC out because he has the low/mid shadow mix up and up knee. I know you were like "well that still doesn't keep JC out", but I disagree. Shadow charge had good pushback, and on hit slide does, too. If JC dash blocks in he has to correctly block at full screen and pretty much make reads at jump distance, but that is only if he refuses to jump at all. Up knee and shadow charge will keep his jumping honest, so just recognizing those tools, Noob can keep Johnny out.
I know that is not enough to convince you by just trying to explain a zoning game against JC (I know I explain it poorly, but it is all based off reads and conditioning the JC player). Off a knock down, Noob has the same mix up - charge, slide, or up knee. If he tries to bait out up knee, then he will have to block a shadow mix up (which resets the zoning situation), and if he tries to rush in, up knee will knock him back into the same situation.
Aside from that, you have to out space and out footsie JC. If Noob happens to get a D4, he jails into the 212 up knee string, which gives Noob over a 1/3 of a bar of meter, and a 50/50 mix up. If JC tries to do anything but jump or block, he eats a shadow charge, resetting the zoning situation. If JC tries to jip, Noob can either up knee or he can dash back, standing 2 AA, 12, 12 ex upknee, shadow charge for around 28% and resets a fullscreen zoning opportunity. Noob has other options from a blocked up knee (since it is +4 on block), but those are the most important for this match up. Noob also has possibly the best throw in the game with a very long reach, and it will reset the zoning situation again.
Noob can read a shadow kick (which would knock him away anyway on hit), and punish with 212 charge to knock JC back out. Johnny has got to work himself in, then his pressure is still escapable and Noob can reset the situation again.