Health Tier List

[Crimson Panther]

This thread isn't intended for discussion as much as it's just an organized list of the health tiers and the characters within them. I will include damage to one of Aquaman's BnBs for each tier. The damages and percentages will represent how much damage this combo will do to the characters within the tier.

Note: This is competitive mode only

Aquaman BnB: B123~MB FTD, B3, JI3, F2 1+3

Health 1400, Defense 1150: (583.4 ~ 41.7%)
- Darkseid

Health 1250, Defense 1350: (497 ~ 39.8%)
- Atrocitus
- Bane
- Batman
- Capt. Cold
- Catwoman
- Deadshot
- Grodd
- Green Arrow
- Harley
- Joker
- Poison Ivy
- Redhood
- Scarecrow

Health 1200, Defense 1350: (497 ~ 41.4%)
- Black Canary
- Cheetah

Health 1150, Defense 1450: (462.7 ~ 40.2%)
- Blue Beetle
- Robin
- Flash

Health 1100, Defense 1450: (462.7 ~ 42.1%)
- Cyborg
- Supergirl

Health 1050, Defense 1500: (447.3 ~ 42.6%)
- Aquaman
- Black Adam
- Brainiac
- Firestorm
- Green Lantern
- Superman
- Swamp Thing
- Wonder Woman

 

[Chongo]

This is the only tier list ever made that has aquaman at the bottom lol

 

[DDutchguy]

Thanks for doing this! I'm not sure if I like that combos can fluctuate so much percentage-wise (damage ranging from 39.8 - 42.6% with the difference being 2.8% is noteworthy enough if you ask me), but in actual matches I don't actually mind it too much because health increments still give you an idea of how much health the opponent has left.

The only problem I have is that in high level play, a ~3% difference in damage from a combo depending on the character can make or break games. Clutch situations happen often enough to make that extra 2.8% the difference between winning or losing the match.

 

[Eldriken]

I know that percentage difference could make or break a win, but I just take it for what it is and play the game. I never ask myself if it would have changed the outcome of the match. It isn't worth worrying about in my opinion.

 

[Take$$$]

Thank you so much for doing this. I was going to try and do this at some point in the future after I finished recording my Canary stuff, but it's just so much work considering everything else I have to do lol.

You are a lifesaver.

 

[Juggs]

I don't understand the point of having different HP values while also having different defensive values. There's not that much of a difference in % values. I thought the point of HP values was to balance characters in a different way. Such as Akuma or Seth in SF4. Instead of nerfing their tools, they are basically glass cannons. They have a lot of tools and can deal a lot of damage, but are the easiest to kill in the game. If Black Adam took like 15% more damage, I think that would really balance him out. I'm not arguing it would be enough though, I can't make that claim this early.

 

[Crimson Panther]

I don't understand the point of having different HP values while also having different defensive values. There's not that much of a difference in % values. I thought the point of HP values was to balance characters in a different way. Such as Akuma or Seth in SF4. Instead of nerfing their tools, they are basically glass cannons. They have a lot of tools and can deal a lot of damage, but are the easiest to kill in the game. If Black Adam took like 15% more damage, I think that would really balance him out. I'm not arguing it would be enough though, I can't make that claim this early.

That was exactly what I thought about while making this.

 

[wsj515]

I don't understand the point of having different HP values while also having different defensive values. There's not that much of a difference in % values. I thought the point of HP values was to balance characters in a different way. Such as Akuma or Seth in SF4. Instead of nerfing their tools, they are basically glass cannons. They have a lot of tools and can deal a lot of damage, but are the easiest to kill in the game. If Black Adam took like 15% more damage, I think that would really balance him out. I'm not arguing it would be enough though, I can't make that claim this early.

The only point I can see is to artificially make the gear system seem more complex than it is. I honestly think some of the UI decisions they made regarding gear were done because it is already so barebones, so making you move to different areas of the menu creates a facade that there's more to it than there really is.

 

[Lokheit]

I posted sometime ago a similar conclussion, this table includes the base atributes for all lvl 20 (and lvl 1) characters, grouping them by defensive tiers (that are the only ones that matter as offensive tiers can be modified with the numbers of the actual movesets). Defensive tiers are in the column that I call Vitality (which is HP x DEF as DEF is a direct divisor of damage, so with a DEF of 1, the true HP of a character would be the result of multiplying both numbers).

Basically the Batman Group (A1 and A2, both have the same defensive attributes and different offensive ones) are the most resistant and the Superman Group (F) are the easier to kill. Funny enough, Aquaman and Black Adam are both on the F group.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17GSoCQLdXIl38s36rvyCwSqZ7u1oZMpV55_QVsKvUFs

If anyone is wondering, what this means is that if the characters on Superman group had 100 Health Points like in Mortal Kombat, the characters in Batman group would have 107'14 Health Points (and the other tiers would be in different positions between both numbers). Or the other way around, if Batman had 100 Health Points, Superman would have 93.33 Health Points.

 

[Crimson Panther]

Weird how Flash and Supergirl have the same strength and Flash has lower ability stats, but does WAY more damage in combo.

Confusing

 

[omooba]

okay hold up doesn't health and defense do pretty much the same thing? like why do people with lower health have higher defense

 

[ShadyHeart]

okay hold up doesn't health and defense do pretty much the same thing? like why do people with lower health have higher defense

I'm pretty sure the only difference it makes in competitive is having more defense than health means heals will be slightly more effective.

 

[Crimson Panther]

I'm pretty sure the only difference it makes in competitive is having more defense than health means heals will be slightly more effective.

Heals? Wut??

 

[Eldriken]

okay hold up doesn't health and defense do pretty much the same thing? like why do people with lower health have higher defense

I could only think it's to compensate for the lower health.

It seems more health = lower defense and vice versa.

 

[omooba]

I could only think it's to compensate for the lower health.

It seems more health = lower defense and vice versa.

interesting can someone making a health & defense tier list @RM Crimson Panther

 

[Crimson Panther]

interesting can someone making a health & defense tier list @RM Crimson Panther

See OP...

 

[Lokheit]

interesting can someone making a health & defense tier list @RM Crimson Panther

I posted sometime ago a similar conclussion, this table includes the base atributes for all lvl 20 (and lvl 1) characters, grouping them by defensive tiers (that are the only ones that matter as offensive tiers can be modified with the numbers of the actual movesets). Defensive tiers are in the column that I call Vitality (which is HP x DEF as DEF is a direct divisor of damage, so with a DEF of 1, the true HP of a character would be the result of multiplying both numbers).

Basically the Batman Group (A1 and A2, both have the same defensive attributes and different offensive ones) are the most resistant and the Superman Group (F) are the easier to kill. Funny enough, Aquaman and Black Adam are both on the F group.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17GSoCQLdXIl38s36rvyCwSqZ7u1oZMpV55_QVsKvUFs

If anyone is wondering, what this means is that if the characters on Superman group had 100 Health Points like in Mortal Kombat, the characters in Batman group would have 107'14 Health Points (and the other tiers would be in different positions between both numbers). Or the other way around, if Batman had 100 Health Points, Superman would have 93.33 Health Points.

It's all explained here already!

The damage formula is this:

Move Damage (as listed in the moveset screen) x Offensive Attribute (Either Str or Abl) x 10 / Opponent's Defense

This means that Defense is a direct divisor of damage, so the amount of direct damage that a character can take is equal to HP x Defense, and that's what the Vitality column lists.

 

[Lokheit]

I could only think it's to compensate for the lower health.
It seems more health = lower defense and vice versa.

The messed up part is that because Defense and Health are equally important, a more balanced distribution is way more effective.

For example if you had to distribute 500 points, 250 x 250 gives you much better results than 400 x 100. Same applies here, so the characters with the bigger differences between both attributes will be easier to kill.

Also some characters have slightly less attribute points in defensive stats. Those points are invested on offensive stats that basically count for NOTHING as damage can be balanced through the damage each move deals, combos and damage scaling (this is why Black Adam deals a lot of damage while having the same attributes than other characters).

The whole stats system feels like a total mess and in gear mode going all in in defensive stats is more effective than a balanced distribution, as offensive stats are split (so investments aren't as strong) while defensive stats multiply each other (so investments on both synergize and make them better).

Before the game released I feared this would happen and made a post about how I thought all characters should have base 1000 stats in all attributes and I was told to shut up because it would be an excellent way to balance characters later. The thing is, it seems like characters simply follow stat templates rather than being treated differently and the whole system is a mess so at the end of the day it would've been much better to not have stats in competitive mode (and gear mode is another huge mess with the balance disparity between skills anyway).

 

[ShadyHeart]

Heals? Wut??

Say you have a character with 100 health and 110 defense. If this character heals for 10, that is 10% of their hp. Now say you have a character with 110 health and 100 defense. A heal for 10 would be 9.1% of their hp. As you can see, they have the same effective health but the one with more defense gets more value from any heal.

Very few characters can heal but this actually has value in competitive since apparently clashes are bugged to heal a static amount unless they fixed it.

In gear mode, this is more significant with big differences in health and defense stats. I do not know if the ability stat affects heal amounts.