Havik General Discussion

[UghGetOuttaHere]

Havik needs a faster mid. Would it be too op if f1 was a mid? Havik has a +6 on block string that he pretty much can do nothing with. You get poked out of any high, his low is too slow his mid is too slow, his backdash gets poked here, he can throw but it can be duck os’d………

I find myself having to d1 here to make people respect how plus 21 is. Then if they block the d1 turn over.

Well why not try a different solution instead of the standard NRS poke wars. You can bust out his armor (which im pretty sure activates frame 1 when enhanced) whenever you anticipate the poke of disrespect. If you do enhanced armor and all they get is a poke, youve won the exchange. Also, just because you d1 doesnt mean your turn has to be over. Again, unique armor move has to be used in unique ways.

 

[Fatality o]

Well why not try a different solution instead of the standard NRS poke wars. You can bust out his armor (which im pretty sure activates frame 1 when enhanced) whenever you anticipate the poke of disrespect. If you do enhanced armor and all they get is a poke, youve won the exchange. Also, just because you d1 doesnt mean your turn has to be over. Again, unique armor move has to be used in unique ways.

His armor is reactable and flawless block full punishable which most people who know the matchup can do consistently. And yes most of the time a blocked d1 means your turn is over. Try throwing his armor out recklessly against a good player and you will get punished, not to mention if they block it your turn is also over.
Furthermore I believe if you armor their d1 they can still block the armor in time

 

[fr stack]

Well why not try a different solution instead of the standard NRS poke wars. You can bust out his armor (which im pretty sure activates frame 1 when enhanced) whenever you anticipate the poke of disrespect. If you do enhanced armor and all they get is a poke, youve won the exchange. Also, just because you d1 doesnt mean your turn has to be over. Again, unique armor move has to be used in unique ways.

Thats terrible advice , i can, say as a liu kang player force a wake up armour from havik do my full 3 kick mid hit string then flawless block the armoured helping hand and full kombo punish
With reiko i can do the same thing with sweep or d4 etc etc etc
Helping hand should be cancellable like ashrahs super armour

 

[Marinjuana]

There's good players but there also like 99% of ppl you will play who will not flawless block his armor frequently and take the massive chip from his EX armor even if you do nothing with Kameo

 

[Fatality o]

Thats terrible advice , i can, say as a liu kang player force a wake up armour from havik do my full 3 kick mid hit string then flawless block the armoured helping hand and full kombo punish
With reiko i can do the same thing with sweep or d4 etc etc etc
Helping hand should be cancellable like ashrahs super armour

Yo if you could flash parry cancel haviks armor my god that’d be sick

 

[UghGetOuttaHere]

His armor is reactable and flawless block full punishable which most people who know the matchup can do consistently. And yes most of the time a blocked d1 means your turn is over. Try throwing his armor out recklessly against a good player and you will get punished, not to mention if they block it your turn is also over.
Furthermore I believe if you armor their d1 they can still block the armor in time

Thats terrible advice , i can, say as a liu kang player force a wake up armour from havik do my full 3 kick mid hit string then flawless block the armoured helping hand and full kombo punish
With reiko i can do the same thing with sweep or d4 etc etc etc
Helping hand should be cancellable like ashrahs super armour

Well shit... if you guys are the Havik experts I would think you would know how to make +6 work. The idea is not to use armor recklessly... but instead discourage habits and force different approaches. im aware of all the counterplay for db1, and for the record I think the use cases for that move are all offensive.

The actual answer is most likely back dash and then b2, but Im going to hop on and test every single option available.

 

[Fatality o]

There's good players but there also like 99% of ppl you will play who will not flawless block his armor frequently and take the massive chip from his EX armor even if you do nothing with Kameo

But then you get it in your head that you can get away with it, then end up facing someone who knows the matchup and get blown up consistently for it. It’s not good conditioning for yourself

 

[Fatality o]

Well shit... if you guys are the Havik experts I would think you would know how to make +6 work. The idea is not to use armor recklessly... but instead discourage habits and force different approaches. im aware of all the counterplay for db1, and for the record I think the use cases for that move are all

The actual answer is most likely back dash and then b2, but Im going to hop on and test every single option available.

I said in my post you can’t backdash off his +6 you get poked out of it. Hence my frustration. The post was about being bummed we can’t really get anything meaningful off of +6 because havik gets poked to death. He’s like shao in that aspect. Once people know that it sucks cause you’re having to guess if they’re gonna respect the plus frames or not. Meanwhile reiko has +6 off a single normal, haviks 21 can also be armoured thru

 

[UghGetOuttaHere]

I said in my post you can’t backdash off his +6 you get poked out of it...Meanwhile reiko has +6 off a single normal...

Well so far, ive found that the statement that he straight up "cant backdash off his +6" to be circumstantial. Majority of D1's will miss including Lui Kangs egregious D1. It only got outright beaten by Mileena and Sub cause they have extended reach.
Layer 2: Sweep beats anything i9 and higher. It will clash with 8 frame pokes but those are very rare and havik wins the trade. Its not a hitconfirmable mid, but Havik has one of the most kameo friendly sweeps in the game.
If you just dont wanna deal with poke you can also jump.
AND even if that counterplay didnt exist. You still ALWAYS have the option to choose a kameo that will cover your back with ambushes.

Oh and im pretty sure Reikos b2 is +8 not 6

 

[fr stack]

Also his 21 is borked it doesnt actually hit mid on females so all of these inconsistencies add together to make u play a certain way a very turtly pokey way lol

 

[kabelfritz]

I said in my post you can’t backdash off his +6 you get poked out of it. Hence my frustration. The post was about being bummed we can’t really get anything meaningful off of +6 because havik gets poked to death. He’s like shao in that aspect. Once people know that it sucks cause you’re having to guess if they’re gonna respect the plus frames or not. Meanwhile reiko has +6 off a single normal, haviks 21 can also be armoured thru

you should be able to get a throw if they do anything but neutral duck. you can start the mindgames from there.

 

[Fatality o]

Well so far, ive found that the statement that he straight up "cant backdash off his +6" to be circumstantial. Majority of D1's will miss including Lui Kangs egregious D1. It only got outright beaten by Mileena and Sub cause they have extended reach.
Layer 2: Sweep beats anything i9 and higher. It will clash with 8 frame pokes but those are very rare and havik wins the trade. Its not a hitconfirmable mid, but Havik has one of the most kameo friendly sweeps in the game.
If you just dont wanna deal with poke you can also jump.
AND even if that counterplay didnt exist. You still ALWAYS have the option to choose a kameo that will cover your back with ambushes.

Oh and im pretty sure Reikos b2 is +8 not 6

you should be able to get a throw if they do anything but neutral duck. you can start the mindgames from there.

Have you played this character online Ugh? Or just in the lab?
The problem is, he gets what: a sweep that ends his turn if blocked, or a throw that can be duck os’d. He can’t whiff punish pokes from a backdash here is my point. His offence gets shutdown by poke mashers.

Havik has some great plus frames situations that he can’t jail anything into is my main issue if your opponent disrespects them. If you disrespect johnnys plus frames you catch a knee into full combo. I’m not saying he needs a 9f advancing knee but another mid option would be great for the character.

He needs Kano or Stryker to cover his ass to make his offence true tbh.

 

[UghGetOuttaHere]

Have you played this character online Ugh? Or just in the lab?
The problem is, he gets what: a sweep that ends his turn if blocked, or a throw that can be duck os’d. He can’t whiff punish pokes from a backdash here is my point. His offence gets shutdown by poke mashers.

Havik has some great plus frames situations that he can’t jail anything into is my main issue if your opponent disrespects them. If you disrespect johnnys plus frames you catch a knee into full combo. I’m not saying he needs a 9f advancing knee but another mid option would be great for the character.

He needs Kano or Stryker to cover his ass to make his offence true tbh.

According to my stats 137W/116L online for Havik. Its technically more than that tho, because i also morph into him liberally when playing Shang. So ive played my fair share. Ive spent the least amount of time with him (out of my main 4), in the lab... thats why i wanted to check things out.

Yes i do get poke checked often but I have never been a situation where it was THE answer in a +frames scenario. Havik was specifically designed not to have the kind of mid you think he needs.

 

[The Hex Man]

According to my stats 137W/116L online for Havik. Its technically more than that tho, because i also morph into him liberally when playing Shang. So ive played my fair share. Ive spent the least amount of time with him (out of my main 4), in the lab... thats why i wanted to check things out.

Yes i do get poke checked often but I have never been a situation where it was THE answer in + frame scenario. Havik was specifically designed not to have the kind of mid you think he needs.

That last sentence is perfect. It really is the truth.

 

[UghGetOuttaHere]

Thank you.

In other news.. why didnt anyone tell me that Haviks Ex Neoplasm got a block box?

 

[Marinjuana]

Thank you.

In other news.. why didnt anyone tell me that Haviks Ex Neoplasm got a block box?

One of the more unique moves NRS has done I haven't 100% wrapped my head around how it actually works

 

[The Hex Man]

One of the more unique moves NRS has done I haven't 100% wrapped my head around how it actually works

Yeah same. I really can't figure anyway it works usefully for me. Maybe a kameos is in the works that could really use it properly. Maybe a a grappler kameo if they make One.

 

[UghGetOuttaHere]

One of the more unique moves NRS has done I haven't 100% wrapped my head around how it actually works

Well I've labbed havik before, but it was during early access. Ex Neoplasm use to not do anything to the opponent until it got to them on the otherside. But now, if you can get them to block it the move will do a 0% hit and havik is -4 after the first loop. Which means they have to deal with the follow up explosion unless they open you up before it gets to them. If they try to throw you during that time, you can d2 and its a full launcher. Check it out. I think its good now because you get rewarded on hit and block

Additionally, the "Blockbox" will attempt again during the loop before the explosion if its not used on the first loop.

It's just interesting because the patch notes mention this move having an audio bug but not this change to it

 

[FeverAyeAye]

Thank you.

In other news.. why didnt anyone tell me that Haviks Ex Neoplasm got a block box?

Sorry, what do you mean by block box? Do you mean it forces a proximity block? https://glossary.infil.net/?t=Proximity Block

 

[fr stack]

Sorry, what do you mean by block box? Do you mean it forces a proximity block? https://glossary.infil.net/?t=Proximity Block

If you do a string into ex bf1 on block they have to block a hit at the very start of the blood ball animation as well as the actual move, if you do it on hit it doesnt happen

 

[fr stack]

Lads should i make a thread on how to kounter certain stategies against us and brainstorm solutions? Put in a fighter plus kameo , let us know what the strategy is thats beating u , and the haviks can see what tech weve come up with .. i feel something like that needs its own thread

 

[Fatality o]

According to my stats 137W/116L online for Havik. Its technically more than that tho, because i also morph into him liberally when playing Shang. So ive played my fair share. Ive spent the least amount of time with him (out of my main 4), in the lab... thats why i wanted to check things out.

Yes i do get poke checked often but I have never been a situation where it was THE answer in a +frames scenario. Havik was specifically designed not to have the kind of mid you think he needs.

I do agree he doesn’t NEED another mid to enforce his offence but I do wish he had better buttons. His best button is clearly d4, then probably b2, his sweep and then f1. His standing 1 and 2 are lacking compared to a lot of the cast. After playing ashrah and every button is money coming back to havik feels bad. Even shao has a few different mid options to catch neutral duckers.

When NRS said they will be giving characters more moves I hoped they were taking about havik lol he feels a little unfinished.

 

[UghGetOuttaHere]

Sorry, what do you mean by block box? Do you mean it forces a proximity block? https://glossary.infil.net/?t=Proximity Block

Admittedly, I completely made up the term. I thought it appropriate as a substitute for "hitbox" since there is no "hit", just extra block stun if you are blocking when the "blockbox" activates. It only happens on block. And its not proximity block because there are no autoblock mechanics. I believe this is a first of its kind for NRS. Thus, ive coined the term "blockbox".

The real interesting part though is that they didnt want to outright tell us this changed. The last major patch says:

-Fixed Enhanced Neoplasm having no sound effects when performed at very close distance to the opponent

Which draws attention to the move without saying what changed outright. Which i think is more fun. Does anyone remember the alleged lack of audio effects?

 

[UghGetOuttaHere]

I do agree he doesn’t NEED another mid to enforce his offence but I do wish he had better buttons. His best button is clearly d4, then probably b2, his sweep and then f1. His standing 1 and 2 are lacking compared to a lot of the cast. After playing ashrah and every button is money coming back to havik feels bad. Even shao has a few different mid options to catch neutral duckers.

When NRS said they will be giving characters more moves I hoped they were taking about havik lol he feels a little unfinished.

Havik is a speical character. He is lacking but he gets to have unique tools in return—compare him to Reiko. Reiko is a swiss-army-knife of tools capable of literally be threatening anywhere on screen... but theres not a single thing unique about him. Havik gets unique armor move, unique combo reset, set play pressure projectiles, AND the b2 series is insanely good. Try looking at him from a different perspective perhaps? It worked for me, it helped make things click

 

[Fatality o]

Havik is a speical character. He is lacking but he gets to have unique tools in return—compare him to Reiko. Reiko is a swiss-army-knife of tools capable of literally be threatening anywhere on screen... but theres not a single thing unique about him. Havik gets unique armor move, unique combo reset, set play pressure projectiles, AND the b2 series is insanely good. Try looking at him from a different perspective perhaps? It worked for me, it helped make things click

Reiko is definitely unique in a few aspects man lol. Best projectile in the game, unduckable ex command grab into big combos.

I used to think havik was great in his own way I’ve played him since launch and he can be! But against a lot of the cast he needs to work much harder comparatively. Reiko is a good comparison, he completely outclasses havik up close and from full screen. And can whiff punish us way easier with b3 or ex slide. This is a whiff punish game and havik kinda lacks a good one.

He doesn’t really synergize great with many kameos. Some characters feel like they can work with any kameo in unique ways. Haviks gameplan is pretty linear with every kameo.

Anyways enough bitching, what kameo is everybody rocking with these days? After all the Janet combo shit I posted I realized it’s pretty evident Janet does nothing for our neutral game and it’s very hard to get stunt double out safely or effectively.