Question - Grandmaster Genuinely thought this was a bug :/ :/ :/

[Shawi]

So, I have been playing MKX and have not really been clued up on buffs and nerfs. I mained Sub in MK9 and loved how you had to actually THINK and be strategic when you play - therefore loved the clone.

MKX comes out, clone is still here and I'm buzzin'. So anyway I was playing this weekend after a few weeks away from the game and I go into a match vs D'vorah (offline multiplayer). I space myself nicely to bait a jump in and I clone - reading the jump. Clone comes out, I block behind it - and as I block the jump-in attack....................................my clone vanishes!

No wait, I'm thinking it's just the game f**king up - MK9 always used to f**k up so I thought nothing of it.

Now I put her in the corner, I clone after a hard knockdown and low block. There's a moment of standoff as I await her next move and she pokes - I block it, the clone vanishes again..............wtf !!

Every single time I clone in the corner, she pokes on reaction and upon blocking the attack, my clone vanishes.

I come on TYM to see if others have the same bug...........and I find this is the a normalization............no wait seriously???????????????

Demo MK9, the clone remained after you had been hit - now that wasn't fair! BUT WHY DOES IT GO AWAY WHEN I BLOCK SOMETHING!!!!! I MADE A READ AND BLOCKED!!! BUT AS A RESULT, I'M PUNISHED FOR THAT??

Apologies for the rant, but I genuinely thought this was a bug!

 

[Braindead]

Almost 3 months too late man. Lol

 

[loogie]

if you see a jump in, duck behind the clone ... they land in the clone. with stand blocking they make contact with you before making contact with the clone and the clone vanishes on block. (yeah, that was the nerf his clone got sometime back)

 

[50 Shades of Shut Up]

I genuinely thought that pre-patch clone was a joke from NRS.

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

Come on now, you can't make the threads this obvious. The key to trolling and causing a 20 page shit-storm is to be discreet. The most recent thread about MK9 Sub vs MKX Sub is a good example because it's actually very difficult to judge whether he's a troll or just an idiot. This is what you need to be aiming for.

Your overuse of long ellipses and punctuation marks gave it away. Oh, and the 3 ":/" in the title. You gotta work on your trolling skills if you want to compete with TYM's best!

 

[tatterbug4]

The reason why people poke you on the other side of the clone and get away with it is because the hit box of the players move doesn't have a hurt box.

And it's only fair the clone goes away when you block. In the corner you would be unstoppable if you could.

(I do agree that the clone needs some fixes with people poking through though)

 

[RyuKazuya]

People didn't like having to think when they played against Sub, so they bitched till it was nerfed.

At this stage it's pretty much confirmed that people don't want to see Sub playable, they are fighting against us trying to fix his ACTUAL bugs like Clone not coming out lol

i am not really a sub player but there is one thing that really annoys me. By destroying sub zero nrs actually manages to make the game boring. Fighting sub zero has been a great training for patience and was fun. It taught you not to jump in like an idiot and actually forced the opponent to think. Now making the clone so weak makes it boring to play against sub. Like in mk9 it was always hype if you read a clone properly and avoided the jump in.

What has happened to mk players?
Whining and crying for nerfs and thats what happens if nrs listens to noobs who are unable to think how to play a matchup properly.
I mean you can break the clone with a projectile. Therefore it was unnecessary to make it vanish after blocking an attack.
The way the clone worked in mk9 was great.
I feel sorry for all sub players and therefore i am ready to support you guys

 

[Shawi]

Come on now, you can't make the threads this obvious. The key to trolling and causing a 20 page shit-storm is to be discrete. The most recent thread about MK9 Sub vs MKX Sub is a good example because it's actually very difficult to judge whether he's a troll or just an idiot. This is what you need to be aiming for.

Your overuse of long ellipses and punctuation marks gave it away. Oh, and the 3 ":/" in the title. You gotta work on your trolling skills if you want to compete with TYM's best!

I'm not trolling though and I looked at that thread, its a good question - I prefer MK9 sub now I've found out about this clone going on block bug, and I loved the the 22 string and 212/4 strings

Edit: oh and the animation for the fireball is sooooooo much better!

 

[Tom Brady]

if you see a jump in, duck behind the clone ... they land in the clone. with stand blocking they make contact with you before making contact with the clone and the clone vanishes on block. (yeah, that was the nerf his clone got sometime back)

This only applies to open space. Many characters can just jump over the clone in corner clone set up situations, even if you duck or D4. Only thing that stopped it before was being able to block the jump in and have them land on the clone.

Anyway.. This is all spilled milk. This normalizing happened almost 3 months ago and nothing is changing with SZ. At this point its either use what you have or you'll have to find another character if you feel SZ doesn't work for you anymore.

 

[Treadmill]

The sub zero community is confusing to me...every character in this game has things that they excel at and for the most part characters have a way of dealing with it. Why is it that Sub players seemingly are annoyed that they can't just do everything they want all the time? Now of course I understand the bs around certain properties of the clone working correctly but like this whole "why does my clone vanish if I take chip damage?" blows my mind.

 

[Houndovhell]

The sub zero community is confusing to me...every character in this game has things that they excel at and for the most part characters have a way of dealing with it. Why is it that Sub players seemingly are annoyed that they can't just do everything they want all the time? Now of course I understand the bs around certain properties of the clone working correctly but like this whole "why does my clone vanish if I take chip damage?" blows my mind.

Imagine Hollywood Cassies EX Nut Punch restand only comes out half the time, and even sometimes gives the Frame Advantage to your opponent, therefor punishing you for using it. How would that make you feel?

 

[Odyessus]

Subs clone not coming out due to pressure goes back to UMK3 (At least that is where I remember it so) Now as for Subs clone going away on block that is new to this game. You'll have to adjust to not blocking the jump ins when the ice clone is in front of you. Ducking is the option here. Unless your fighting some that is in position to clear the ice clone.

On a side note I wish the ice burst or the frost bomb had a little more anti air properties. Like when the opponent is directly over your head I wish it'd hit them. I know its asking for much but it'd be nice.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Well, now you need to D4 if you have a clone out and they jump at you. That way they will whiff the Jip/Jik and land in the clone.

 

[Treadmill]

Imagine Hollywood Cassies EX Nut Punch restand only comes out half the time, and even sometimes gives the Frame Advantage to your opponent, therefor punishing you for using it. How would that make you feel?

Nah dude, I get that stuff, like I said. I'm speaking about how pissed people were and are about how the chip damage takes the ice clone. Or how they had to learn new combos to get a guaranteed ice clone out in the corner, or how "oh my god, they can get out of this set up...it's trash" mentality I see from some people.

Edit: The chip damage removing clone is a necessity. If that fucking clone eats my projectiles then yes, by god if I manage to hit you with a physical attack the clone has got to go.

 

[Houndovhell]

Subs clone not coming out due to pressure goes back to UMK3 (At least that is where I remember it so) Now as for Subs clone going away on block that is new to this game. You'll have to adjust to not blocking the jump ins when the ice clone is in front of you. Ducking is the option here. Unless your fighting some that is in position to clear the ice clone.

On a side note I wish the ice burst or the frost bomb had a little more anti air properties. Like when the opponent is directly over your head I wish it'd hit them. I know its asking for much but it'd be nice.

Low profiling vs some/most characters does not work. they will still hit you with their jump in attack before touching the hitbox of the Ice Clone. Sub does need more anti-airs. Wish they would make it so clone would come out if the opponent is in the air and above you, so you can AA with it. Cause sometimes with Ex Burst - it sometimes doesnt work, and sometimes does. You have to make the read and wait for the right time to input it. :/ sub needs fixes

 

[Houndovhell]

Nah dude, I get that stuff, like I said. I'm speaking about how pissed people were and are about how the chip damage takes the ice clone. Or how they had to learn new combos to get a guaranteed ice clone out in the corner, or how "oh my god, they can get out of this set up...it's trash" mentality I see from some people.

Ah, okay. just trying to help people understand xD we pick this variation for the clone and the setups, but they dont even work half the time, then when they do they easily get shut down by pokes and the free-ass jumping in this game xD people shouldnt complain about having to learn new bnb's, doesnt take long to edit the file of combos on your computer also leads to learning new, and potentially better tech. Its not trash, its just broken and needs addressing. I believe sub can still win...its just going to be a hell of a job

 

[Odyessus]

The sub zero community is confusing to me...every character in this game has things that they excel at and for the most part characters have a way of dealing with it. Why is it that Sub players seemingly are annoyed that they can't just do everything they want all the time? Now of course I understand the bs around certain properties of the clone working correctly but like this whole "why does my clone vanish if I take chip damage?" blows my mind.

To be fair Cassie is a new character and you haven't developed certain expectations from any given move. 20 years (Introduction of Ice Klone '95) from now if your still using Cassie (wouldn't be surprised if she didn't even make it to the next MK) I'm sure you'll have some negative feed back on changes made to moves or things you believe to be glitchy.

Another note though Sub players should be able to adjust. I've played with worse Subs. Cloneless, no low slide, a tombstone teleport (Cool but weird)

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Nah dude, I get that stuff, like I said. I'm speaking about how pissed people were and are about how the chip damage takes the ice clone. Or how they had to learn new combos to get a guaranteed ice clone out in the corner, or how "oh my god, they can get out of this set up...it's trash" mentality I see from some people.

Edit: The chip damage removing clone is a necessity. If that fucking clone eats my projectiles then yes, by god if I manage to hit you with a physical attack the clone has got to go.

That's not really a sub zero mentality. That's an MKX mentality... all the time I see posts like, oh well that's not safe must be garbage! As if everything HAS to be safe in this game. Like let's not work for anything guys!

The sub zero forums are no different in that regard. (We do the same shit) And since everyone else is using them same mentality, I don't see why the sub forums should be held to a higher standard.

 

[Houndovhell]

To be fair Cassie is a new character and you haven't developed certain expectations from any given move. 20 years (Introduction of Ice Klone '95) from now if your still using Cassie (wouldn't be surprised if she didn't even make it to the next MK) I'm sure you'll have some negative feed back on changes made to moves or things you believe to be glitchy.

Another note though Sub players should be able to adjust. I've played with worse Subs. Cloneless, no low slide, a tombstone teleport (Cool but weird)

But also acknowledge that this is the first competitive MK. all the ones before this were focused on strictly casuals. The UMK3 (third party patched into an actually playable game) games that I've seen, didn't have any sub zero in them. And still, noone plays them at tourneys anymore. MK9 was 90% casual, and 10% competitive, with failed attempts at "normalizatioin". The clone going away on hit makes sense, on block doesnt. why get punished for doing what youre supposed to do? and yes, you can indeed backdash right after the animation for the clone ends. but what if they didnt jump? what if they teleport and get a free combo on you? what if they throw projectiles to get rid of clone and potentially get out of the corner therefor ruining Grandmasters endgame?

 

[Shawi]

Nah dude, I get that stuff, like I said. I'm speaking about how pissed people were and are about how the chip damage takes the ice clone. Or how they had to learn new combos to get a guaranteed ice clone out in the corner, or how "oh my god, they can get out of this set up...it's trash" mentality I see from some people.

Edit: The chip damage removing clone is a necessity. If that fucking clone eats my projectiles then yes, by god if I manage to hit you with a physical attack the clone has got to go.

Did anyone ask for the clone to go away on chip? I bet it wasn't even considered until it was actually patched into the game - it seemed completely normal to me and my mates as it was in MK9. Then after NRS have created this bug, people like Mr. Treadmill here have jumped on the NRS bandwagon saying "The chip damage removing clone is a necessity" - would this be correct to say?

Edit: it IS completely normal to me and my mates

 

[Odyessus]

But also acknowledge that this is the first competitive MK. all the ones before this were focused on strictly casuals. The UMK3 (third party patched into an actually playable game) games that I've seen, didn't have any sub zero in them. And still, noone plays them at tourneys anymore. MK9 was 90% casual, and 10% competitive, with failed attempts at "normalizatioin". The clone going away on hit makes sense, on block doesnt. why get punished for doing what youre supposed to do? and yes, you can indeed backdash right after the animation for the clone ends. but what if they didnt jump? what if they teleport and get a free combo on you? what if they throw projectiles to get rid of clone and potentially get out of the corner therefor ruining Grandmasters endgame?

I disagree. IMO forcing the opponent to jump in punch/kick, combo into a block is not a punish, worse case scenario off a block you go neutral. You'll just have to make a read. Grandmaster is not broke, now we just have to make a read in that situation. (The hard one for me to react to is the jump in punch to throw. Teching a throw seems to be beyond my capabilities)

I mained Mac and Smoke (Human and Cybernetic) in UMK3 but started with Sub. So that may be true.

 

[Houndovhell]

I disagree. IMO forcing the opponent to jump in punch/kick, combo into a block is not a punish, worse case scenario off a block you go neutral. You'll just have to make a read. Grandmaster is not broke, now we just have to make a read in that situation. (The hard one for me to react to is the jump in punch to throw. Teching a throw seems to be beyond my capabilities)

I mained Mac and Smoke (Human and Cybernetic) in UMK3 but started with Sub. So that may be true.

Worst thing for sub IS neutral. Worst case scenario its Tempest or Boneshaper with the ex plus frames that pushes midscreen and shifts momentum. The opponent would have to be negative 9-12 for a proper Punish, as subs 7 frame 11~Ice Ball doesnt work unless you are touching testes with the opponent. Most strings people use will not be super neg, aka ~ -7-8 Frames, which sub cannot punish. You could F4~Ice Clone for the safe set-up - but guess what? prepare for another jump in punch/teleport/gangbang by the local knitting club. xD

 

[Odyessus]

Worst thing for sub IS neutral. Worst case scenario its Tempest or Boneshaper with the ex plus frames that pushes midscreen and shifts momentum. The opponent would have to be negative 9-12 for a proper Punish, as subs 7 frame 11~Ice Ball doesnt work unless you are touching testes with the opponent. Most strings people use will not be super neg, aka ~ -7-8 Frames, which sub cannot punish. You could F4~Ice Clone for the safe set-up - but guess what? prepare for another jump in punch/teleport/gangbang by the local knitting club. xD

Not sure what to say. Nobody is perfect and there are plenty of windows of opportunity to win with Sub and I believe he is a viable threat to any match-up.

Operator error

 

[-narshkajke-]

The sub zero community is confusing to me...every character in this game has things that they excel at and for the most part characters have a way of dealing with it. Why is it that Sub players seemingly are annoyed that they can't just do everything they want all the time? Now of course I understand the bs around certain properties of the clone working correctly but like this whole "why does my clone vanish if I take chip damage?" blows my mind.

habibi, most of us complain about the inconsistency of ex clone, most of us don't care about disappear on block thing or the cooldown.
what if I told you that ex nutpunch can't come out 1 out of 4, just because the character you're playing against is breathing differently?
that's what happen with ex clone,,, also there's this story of getting poked through clone... just saying, habibi..

 

[Treadmill]

Did anyone ask for the clone to go away on chip? I bet it wasn't even considered until it was actually patched into the game - it seemed completely normal to me and my mates as it was in MK9. Then after NRS have created this bug, people like Mr. Treadmill here have jumped on the NRS bandwagon saying "The chip damage removing clone is a necessity" - would this be correct to say?

Edit: it IS completely normal to me and my mates

I never said anyone asked for it. I'm saying it seems like a logical way to try and keep the clone from being to good.