Menu
By:
Filters
What's new

Question - Sub-Zero Escaping frametrap and wakeup issues.

Durango

Durango

Enhancer
Faced a lethal Kung Jin player. His entire game was frametraps. No low? Overhead. No overhead? Low. Kept peppering me with attacks. Every time I found an opening, he'd hit me with something else. I couldn't get in and he was making it look too easy to poke and start a combo with. B1, D3, D4 all got disrespected greatly by his attacks.

I try using Slide to get out of them. Slide doesn't come out. It's a huge input issue in this game where Slide will not respond, making you F4 or leaving you a sitting duck. The only way I could get out of his corner frametraps was to mash EX Ice Burst as madly as I could since he'd two-shot my EX Hammer and go right through it.

Wakeups were almost nonexistent. He'd hit through my Slide, and more often than not, Wakeup Slide (or EX Wakeup Slide) simply would not come out. How do you get out of frame traps and use wakeups properly?
 
Reactions: GAV
DSilv3R

DSilv3R

Noob
You do know you can't do any wakeup move without meter right because it's the only time you'll have armour to blow up a meaty normal?

And I think you're using the term "frame trap" incorrectly here, there's none in this game. Sounds like your normals are getting stuffed at the start up. Just block the first low poke of Kung Jin and back off. Or if you're confident he's going to followup up the poke with a standing string, armour through with a ex move.

Remember, sometimes it's better to just block as well, learn the string your struggling against.
 
Durango

Durango

Enhancer
DSilv3R said:
You do know you can't do any wakeup move without meter right because it's the only time you'll have armour to blow up a meaty normal?

And I think you're using the term "frame trap" incorrectly here, there's none in this game. Sounds like your normals are getting stuffed at the start up. Just block the first low poke of Kung Jin and back off. Or if you're confident he's going to followup up the poke with a standing string, armour through with a ex move.

Remember, sometimes it's better to just block as well, learn the string your struggling against.
Click to expand...
Alright, well assuming I'm not using "frame trap" properly, stuffed is a good word to use as well. But what if I have no meter and everyone's beating out my D3s?
 
DSilv3R

DSilv3R

Noob
Triplswing said:
Explain why you think this.
Click to expand...
I'm sure this is pretty easy to see, none of the frame traps actually leads into a counter hit which is common in nearly every Japanese game. This maybe due to the block button in the game, but there's really no frame traps in this game, I'm happy to proven wrong though.

Being a Guy player in SF4, that's his whole design is to fish for people to press buttons on a block string. In this game, it's kinda relying on your opponents knowledge and seeing if they know what's plus or negative on block. Online doesn't help because punishing in general is a lot riskier then it should be. So you're gonna get stuffed in a lot of random situations. Which is why I suggest just blocking what you can then backing off until you can figure out your opponent and what they're trying to achieve in their mixups.

Durango said:
Alright, well assuming I'm not using "frame trap" properly, stuffed is a good word to use as well. But what if I have no meter and everyone's beating out my D3s?
Click to expand...
D3 is good close range, but remember, you need to block their low poke first. If your trying to press d3 in hitstun, it won't come out, you'll need to block first then throw your poke out or back off. In normal circumstances you want to be doing d3 or d4 real meaty on their wake up to get them blocking low before going into a overhead. You need to train them into ducking, b33 is good and safe on block to do meaty on wake up or b33d4 if they're trying to do something after blocking the first two hits. You'll get the knock down and the oki.
 
Triplswing

Triplswing

your soe will BERRN
Frametrap has a slightly different meaning in this game. In other games like Tekken, it means abusing frame advantage to get the next hit. In this game it refers mainly to blockstrings, where the opponent has no chance to move or do any attacks (even armored attacks) and are forced to block or waste meter on a block breaker. Also, during frametraps, you cannot duck high attacks, so that's covered.

Here's one example

EDIT: BTW does standing fierce still hold leagues? Last time I was there was the Tekken league but I had a lot of fun.
 
DSilv3R

DSilv3R

Noob
Algud, Nats is coming up so keep an eye out. Pop up to Auckland if your keen, MKX is gonna be pretty big.

Sorry for the derail.
 
WaywardStranger

WaywardStranger

Boob
On hit against a standing opponent, most attacks or string of attacks that leave the opponent standing is a frame trap. Landing a D+1 or D+3 is the simplest example--if you link a proper attack thereafter your opponent must a) block or b) eat a combo.
 
DSilv3R

DSilv3R

Noob
Poking with a low on a standing character isn't called hitstun in this game? Ok, just something I need to get used to if that's what it's called for NRS games.
 
Durango

Durango

Enhancer
Well the problem is I only have a few options when I'm down, right?

-Wakeup (EX Slide, EX Ice Burst, EX Hammer)
-Block
-Low Block

The game is highly 50/50 oriented, and makes it very hard to escape blockstrings. The Slide won't come out sometime, which is also a serious pain. I want to know how to escape blockstrings.
 
DSilv3R

DSilv3R

Noob
When I see that I'm getting hit by a crouching normal, all I see is my character in a hitstun animation where neither character can actual benefit from that situation. If he tried to throw me immediately after the crouching poke, the throw would whiff due to my character still being in a hitstun animation. My opponent can followup with another low, but that can be blocked easily and you can backdash or jump back out.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't go into a string from a crouching low poke in this game, right (not cancel into a move)?
 
DSilv3R

DSilv3R

Noob
Are you sure? Can someone give me a particular string from a low that's considered a "frametrap"? Because I tested it out just now with Cassie, with her d1 and d3 into f33 and I'm able to backdash the f33 after getting hit by both lows.
 
WaywardStranger

WaywardStranger

Boob
DSilv3R said:
Are you sure? Can someone give me a particular string from a low that's considered a "frametrap"? Because I tested it out just now with Cassie, with her d1 and d3 into f33 and I'm able to backdash the f33 after getting hit by both lows.
Click to expand...
Kotal Kahn: set dummy to block auto and neutral jump. Then d1 when the dummy is on the ground. Then link, not cancel, 114. The dummy can't jump or do anything else but block the string.
 
DSilv3R

DSilv3R

Noob
Ok, that actually works, interesting.

Edit - So, that is what's considered a "frame trap" which forces you to block. At least I get what it actually means now, tried backdashing after getting hit from the d1(blocking, you get out free backdashing) but it won't come out. With Kotal Kahn he won't get that close vs Sub, as well as all d1s being stand blockable anyways. So, he's not much of a threat in the high/low game but still good knowledge to have.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.