Does a character need a 50/50 to be good?

[Metzos]

I m really surprised that no one is talking about TG Raiden. Cassie, is strong yes, but with good pokes you can space her out, cyber Kano is just super solid, thats it, but TG Raiden is on a whole new lvl.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

I m really surprised, no one is talking about TG Raiden.

After seeing Dizzy and JWong play him...yeah I hear ya. He's going to be a pain to deal with.

 

[Metzos]

After seeing Dizzy and JWong play him...yeah I hear ya. He's going to be a pain to deal with.

I swear to you, that character is cheap as hell. Totally safe, insane dmg, crazy footsies, safe strings, chip dmg, meter build, stupid frame traps, 5f (or is it 6f after the patch) safe mid combo starter and once you are in the corner, its game over. The only negative thing is his overhead combo starter string, which is hella unsafe on block, but it can be canceled to shocker to make it safe... Not hard if you have good reactions. People are sleeping on TG Raiden big time.

 

[DeathTouch]

I know what I am talking about, and I think many are overreacting Lol. I see nerfs coming that in the long run ppl will regret asking for/ I see buffs coming that ppl will regret asking for. But hey, let's just continue the cycle .

You know what. I have begun to see it to although most of TYM just don't wanna talk about it or are afraid of being blown up. There are characters that are stronger then others and matchups that are Very bad IMO. I mean I don't live in the U.S and can prove it by competing in tournaments but that does not mean my say in all this is not valid + I have been around MK since 92' days MK 1'era

On the other hand this game has so much to show us that we have left to discover, and exciting times in front of us.

 

[Drueji]

I'm under the assumption that a 50/50 is a string with a low/overhead ender so that your opponent has to guess high or low...
Am I right?

 

[Zoidberg747]

I swear to you, that character is cheap as hell. Totally safe, insane dmg, crazy footsies, safe strings, chip dmg, meter build, stupid frame traps, 5f (or is it 6f after the patch) safe mid combo starter and once you are in the corner, its game over. The only negative thing is his overhead combo starter string, which is hella unsafe on block, but it can be canceled to shocker to make it safe... Not hard if you have good reactions. People are sleeping on TG Raiden big time.

As soon as he gets representation at tournaments the nerf cries will come.

 

[Zoidberg747]

I'm under the assumption that a 50/50 is a string with a low/overhead ender so that your opponent has to guess high or low...
Am I right?

A 50/50 is when you must guess whether they will go high or low, i.e you cant defend both options at the same time. Not all high low mixups are 50/50s however, because most of the time you can armor through them both, backdash them both etc. Its only a 50/50 if your opponent puts you in a situation that forces you to guess high or low, not just having a high low mixup.

 

[tatterbug4]

Not really.

With everyone in the cast having them and zoning got killed.

And you need a bar to wake up = knockdown 50/50 time which if you don't have one it will mean you can't cheat your opponent near as bad as he can you.

But that doesn't mean the characters bad. Look at kung Lao.

 

[cHAncEman1292]

I don't think you need a 50/50 but I think every character should have a "game plan"

For instance, I play Mileena. Mileena has really bad upclose pressure - very telegraphed moves, however she has a decent projectile game and really good punishing options. I find that even though I don't have a vortex or a 50/50 my main objective is to frustrate my opponent into making a mistake with sai and ball pressure. It find it really easy to condition opponents into my sai game so then I surprise them with some grab shennigans or up close pressure. In summary, it feels like Mileena was designed to toy with opponents with a THREE PRONGED APPROACH (pun intended)

Other characters like Kotal don't seem to be designed with any specific game pattern in mind...

 

[Metzos]

As soon as he gets representation at tournaments the nerf cries will come.

Im hoping it wont be too late though.

 

[RunwayMafia]

Sorry, didn't record them. But take my word for it, if I had recorded them, I would want those recordings destroyed!

I played his kano a few nights ago and I was literally stunned. I couldn't believe how on point and paralyzing his kano play was....he is going to destroy people in this game.

 

[Barrogh]

The only negative thing is his overhead combo starter string, which is hella unsafe on block, but it can be canceled to shocker to make it safe... Not hard if you have good reactions. People are sleeping on TG Raiden big time.

Technically, a lot of his stuff is -7 or worse (lightning strings) and/or gaps (tele strings - though he can stagger them to bait stuff or continue with the chip), but with that pushback it doesn't matter. Speaking of shocker cancel, it doesn't take reaction (you cannot cancel off second hit, only off the first one AFAIK), you just need to get option select down.

Nobody really sleeps on him, especially now that he was showcased. He's just another plain and boring mixup character with solid normals and minor gimmick - something this game has in droves already.

Those who tried him hoping for his distinctive gameplay are now jumping ship big time, that doesn't mean he's bad.

 

[Metzos]

Technically, a lot of his stuff is -7 or worse (lightning strings) and/or gaps (tele strings - though he can stagger them to bait stuff or continue with the chip), but with that pushback it doesn't matter. Speaking of shocker cancel, it doesn't take reaction (you cannot cancel off second hit, only off the first one AFAIK), you just need to get option select down.

Nobody really sleeps on him, especially now that he was showcased. He's just another plain and boring mixup character with solid normals and minor gimmick - something this game has in droves already.

Those who tried him hoping for his distinctive gameplay are now jumping ship big time, that doesn't mean he's bad.

Dont know what you are talking about, but TG Raiden is currently the most safe character in the game. Plus the fact the chip dmg AND meter build he does is huge. Lol, i never said he is bad. I said that he is top 3 material atm in the right hands. Every time he touches you, 40% and more of your life is gone with one bar, plus the wall carry. He also has a vortex, which CANNOT be armored through.

You cant even whiff punish him unless you have a fast advancing move, like Cassie's b1 for example. His njp hit box and active frames is RIDICULOUS and leads to a ton of dmg, 6f mid safe combo starter with insane range, which leads to a ton of dmg, low SAFE combo starter which also leads to a ton of dmg, great mobility and pseudo frame traps. What more do you want?

No one else in the game has those tools, plus a safe 50/50 mix up game. I dont care if his overhead string is -2000000000000000f, he can make it safe if he wants to and that is the point. When he gets you in the corner, your options are ALMOST zero to none. And again i m saying this regarding the player who uses him knows what he is doing.

I am going to say it again, people are sleeping big time on TG Raiden. And all i see, are nerf cries about Kano, Cassie, SZ and Scorpion. Lol those characters are fine. The problems lie elsewhere in MKX. TG Raiden is one of them.

 

[Barrogh]

I am going to say it again, people are sleeping big time on TG Raiden. And all i see, are nerf cries about Kano, Cassie, SZ and Scorpion. Lol those characters are fine. The problems lie elsewhere in MKX. TG Raiden is one of them.

Those who play Raiden know how ridiculous TG is, so I'm saying that no, nobody sleeps on him.
I was in Raiden camp since day 1 so I know all that stuff you're describing.

I've already explained what's my problem with Raiden design is. TG is very powerful, but generic character with all his positives coming from raw frame data, OS-covered mixups that makes them safe-ish (boo-hoo, punishable by like 2 reversals in the game; really hope that OS are patched out in a short order) and damage. So stupid, so uninspired, so not MK. Meanwhile other variations don't have boosted normals but instead get stuff that is only good for getting punished for using them.

Not really Raiden-specific issue, but Raiden is one of the worst offenders here: a lot of powerful universal tools like run and mixups (they are as good as universal at this point) that make distinctive character tools worthless to even pick. So much for "75 characters" and diversity.

I'm falling asleep watching MKX tournaments lol.

 

[MsMiharo]

The real question is, what does the 50/50 give you? Kitana essentially has a 50/50 with her slow ass overhead that doesn't lead to anything. But Batgirl had safe 50/50's that reset in to itself. There's a difference. 50/50 is strong in a rush down heavy game but it's not the do all, end all. It's a stronger tool than many others but no one is equating Jacqui's potential good/greatness to her 50/50. She just has good tools and strings, dangerous corner game and a decent 50/50.

 

[Barrogh]

The real question is, what does the 50/50 give you? Kitana essentially has a 50/50 with her slow ass overhead that doesn't lead to anything.

Depending on who you ask, 50/50 means situation where you can't react to both options and have no other options besides guessing, such as having to block 12 f low or 12f overhead when at -21... Which kinda makes it isolated issue while opening people up with mixups in general is what some have issue with when it comes to MKX.

 

[MsMiharo]

Depending on who you ask, 50/50 means situation where you can't react to both options and have no other options besides guessing, such as having to block 12 f low or 12f overhead when at -21... Which kinda makes it isolated issue while opening people up with mixups in general is what some have issue with when it comes to MKX.

My bad using a terrible example but you get what I'm getting at

 

[Metzos]

Those who play Raiden know how ridiculous TG is, so I'm saying that no, nobody sleeps on him.
I was in Raiden camp since day 1 so I know all that stuff you're describing.

I've already explained what's my problem with Raiden design is. TG is very powerful, but generic character with all his positives coming from raw frame data, OS-covered mixups that makes them safe-ish (boo-hoo, punishable by like 2 reversals in the game; really hope that OS are patched out in a short order) and damage. So stupid, so uninspired, so not MK. Meanwhile other variations don't have boosted normals but instead get stuff that is only good for getting punished for using them.

Not really Raiden-specific issue, but Raiden is one of the worst offenders here: a lot of powerful universal tools like run and mixups (they are as good as universal at this point) that make distinctive character tools worthless to even pick. So much for "75 characters" and diversity.

I'm falling asleep watching MKX tournaments lol.

In other words, if i understood you correctly, you are saying he needs to be nerfed (or normalized or w/e). If so, we agree. If i didnt undestand you, then my opinion is , that the character needs to be toned down.

 

[Barrogh]

In other words, if i understood you correctly, you are saying he needs to be nerfed (or normalized or w/e). If so, we agree. If i didnt undestand you, then my opinion is , that the character needs to be toned down.

More like gameplan that he is designed to use well should be "normalized" across the cast and I want Displacer/MoS to be viable for their unique features... So that's close enough.

 

[Dirtylova]

I m really surprised that no one is talking about TG Raiden. Cassie, is strong yes, but with good pokes you can space her out, cyber Kano is just super solid, thats it, but TG Raiden is on a whole new lvl.

Yea he's so OP wong stomped the comp at NWM, huh?

TYM PLEASE,,, Don't ruin another mk with nerf/buff tears

@STORMS Please bro, do,,,,something.

ok maybe king jin is a little to safe, touch that fool up a little

 

[Amplified$hotz]

I think no. But when everyone learns to block, punish, etc. it's kind of hard to make a comeback when down on life.
Also isn't pressure constant guessing? Like Cage's MK9 pressure?

 

[Metzos]

Yea he's so OP wong stomped the comp at NWM, huh?

TYM PLEASE,,, Don't ruin another mk with nerf/buff tears

@STORMS Please bro, do,,,,something.

ok maybe king jin is a little to safe, touch that fool up a little

Are you srsly comparing what TG Raiden can do just cause JW played him? I saw the matches and his pressure was garbage, he was only going for gimmicky setups which were unnecessary. I m playing against Nivek and i can tell you his TG Raiden is miles ahead of JW's in terms of footsies, whiff punishing, damaging combos, you name it.

Its like saying, that cause Ermac won a tournament he is super solid, which is 100% afar from truth. TG Raiden needs to be normalized and thats a fact.

 

[Scrotie79]

Oh how so easily threads become derailed and/or veer off onto semi-related topics.

I am only a casual player (yet an oddly competitive one) so take the following thoughts with a dab of grime.
It's just a thought, that maybe this thread should have been created AFTER all the dlc characters have been released. Then and only then can the question be asked if a character needs a 50/50 to be good. I have a this strange notion that the answer to this question is no...even now, why because reasons that is why.

Thank You, Drive through

 

[Barrogh]

It's like saying, that cause Ermac won a tournament he is super solid, which is 100% afar from truth. TG Raiden needs to be normalized and thats a fact.

While not necessarily disagreeing, that's not what fact is by definition.