Born On a Monday -- Solomon Grundy General Discussion/QA/Combo Thread

[Jeffreys]

That 3 traits at once should have a timer like 6 seconds after that back to no buffs otherwise that would be op

Inviato dal mio Nexus 4

...6 seconds? are you trolling?

 

[Jeffreys]

Also does any other grundy mains have any ideas? I can't tag all of you- im on my phone.

 

[KHAOTIC_UNCLE-_-CREEPY]

I always thought the dead air grab(bf2) shouldn't be block able

 

[Nonameformedude]

I think 90% of these buffs are redonkulous. Giving grundy some of the stuff you are suggesting would break him, or would have zero effect to his game other than making him play better the way you individually play him. I think grundy is hella viable right now, the players just need to reach the next level with him(lbsh not going to be ez).

Grundy does have a meter building problem if you arent using WC, and he NEEDS meter to do grundy damage so a meter building chain would be nice. It would have to do like the same damage as a normal throw though to be balanced(even then it still might be op because it would open up him using his vortex all game then building meter on a punish if they guess right).

The b1 linking into 3 on block is the only really reasonable one that I can get behind 100%. b1 is already so slow that we cant even throw it out unless we've hit confirmed jumping 2, why the hell does he have to whiff supper hard on block if canceling into 4 is going to whiff anyway. Thats just stupid, who thought that was a good idea. You could even make the link d1 interruptable like GL's.

Making his godlike anti air grab meterburnable is too much, that would literally eliminate anyones ability to attack him from the air(his d2 already leads to 50% you just want it to be free). Making clever spin unstuffable turns him into bane, and takes away from his purpose as a grappler(also it another unnecessary but that just makes matches more free for him). Making all traits active at once is just cray since the health boost from defense chain makes grundy, and if he could have that AND take no chip WHILE doing slight more damage he would just have to get one or two small combos in and block the whole game to easily beat the entire cast. Like how stupid would that be. We play injustice for the first health bar then you go into training mode and hit the dummy on always block until time runs out for the second mode, high level grundy guys np

[edit] Also his trait grab being clashable its extremely fair, tbh I cant believe it was ever unclashable since thats his go to combo ender. Everyone else in the game has to look for their unclashable combos, and so does grundy. People still only really clash him on his trait grab so go into your b3 bnb and in stead of finishing the combo b3 right into f3. 30% unclashable. Thats fair

Im just not buying that hes not viable unless you dont get your health chain on, but since thats not hard to do he is super viable

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I think 90% of these buffs are redonkulous. Giving grundy some of the stuff you are suggesting would break him, or would have zero effect to his game other than making him play better the way you individually play him. I think grundy is hella viable right now, the players just need to reach the next level with him(lbsh not going to be ez).

Grundy does have a meter building problem if you arent using WC, and he NEEDS meter to do grundy damage so a meter building chain would be nice. It would have to do like the same damage as a normal throw though to be balanced(even then it still might be op because it would open up him using his vortex all game then building meter on a punish if they guess right).

The b1 linking into 3 on block is the only really reasonable one that I can get behind 100%. b1 is already so slow that we cant even throw it out unless we've hit confirmed jumping 2, why the hell does he have to whiff supper hard on block if canceling into 4 is going to whiff anyway. Thats just stupid, who thought that was a good idea. You could even make the link d1 interruptable like GL's.

Making his godlike anti air grab meterburnable is too much, that would literally eliminate anyones ability to attack him from the air(his d2 already leads to 50% you just want it to be free). Making clever spin unstuffable turns him into bane, and takes away from his purpose as a grappler(also it another unnecessary but that just makes matches more free for him). Making all traits active at once is just cray since the health boost from defense chain makes grundy, and if he could have that AND take no chip WHILE doing slight more damage he would just have to get one or two small combos in and block the whole game to easily beat the entire cast. Like how stupid would that be. We play injustice for the first health bar then you go into training mode and hit the dummy on always block until time runs out for the second mode, high level grundy guys np

Im just not buying that hes not viable unless you dont get your health chain on, but since thats not hard to do he is super viable

you aren't playing people that actually know the MU.

His main problem is people NJ after his strings on block and in a neutral setting. His d2 isn't very good against MOST of the jumping attacks... because the jumping attacks have such good long active frames, they'll trade or beat out the d2.

So what if someone can attack you from the air. It is what makes Aquaman so freaking good. Because his d2 has a disjointed hitbox, he basically never trades.

Honestly, the BIGGEST buff to grundy would be changing the WCC input to just dd, so there is no ambiguity. I am always hesitant to use it how it should, because sometimes i'm not sure if the cancel will come out... and then lose half my life for essentially making the right read, and not visually being able to tell which way to cancel.

 

[Error]

> Reasonable
> The buffs suggested in this thread

 

[Nonameformedude]

you aren't playing people that actually know the MU.

His main problem is people NJ after his strings on block and in a neutral setting. His d2 isn't very good against MOST of the jumping attacks... because the jumping attacks have such good long active frames, they'll trade or beat out the d2.

So what if someone can attack you from the air. It is what makes Aquaman so freaking good. Because his d2 has a disjointed hitbox, he basically never trades.

Honestly, the BIGGEST buff to grundy would be changing the WCC input to just dd, so there is no ambiguity. I am always hesitant to use it how it should, because sometimes i'm not sure if the cancel will come out... and then lose half my life for essentially making the right read, and not visually being able to tell which way to cancel.

If they jump out of your trait on block then read them and dead air instead of trait grabing, that is that moves purpose. I agree that the hitbox on aquamans air 2 is nice, but only at certain ranges so if you know the MU stay out of that range. You can also just eat up his air to and any string he links off of that with a properly timed WC. I agree on the cancel change kinda, but that could be a double edged sword of a change. I can consistently do the cancel on a pad, its not hard to do, but in the heat of a match I might cancel then back/forward jump or back/forward dash depending on if they crossed over while im WCCing. On the same front if its dd then I know im going to eat some shit blocking low just to cancel. I mean if it was dd I would not be able to WCC punish superman air lazer standing laser zoning because he would meter burn air lasers and im forced to hold down.

 

[Nonameformedude]

Also I find his d2 trades to be great for him. Most leave him standing and have the other player fall to the ground so he recovers faster(Ive definitely traded a d2 and still got the 11xx4 link while they were still falling since 11 hits mid).

 

[1truking]

Most of the initial suggestions seem to be geared towards making bad moves have some sort of a purpose. Sorry but in every 3d fighter there are useless moves or extraordinarily situational moves and this game really is based on 3d fighter mechanics. Changes mentioned to f122, f223 and 33 would still not make them moves I'd want to use. f1 for its reach and low hit 112/3 and d2 are your go to normals none of the changes would change that.

The only really good suggestion is changing the walking corpse cancel notation which I've suggested before. Make it a button press or make it just not cross over or at least make it register the initial input from the correct side.

I don't think the AA grab needs a mb but I think you need to be able to control the direction you throw them. In the corner under correct spacing my opponents best bet often is to jump at me blatantly so I can aa grab. As long as its a range where d2 will miss or trade it gets them out of the corner which is pretty contrary to a grappler design. I'd also like trait to have the option of throwing them left or right similiar to a regular throw for that reason and mb WC would also be nice to control the throw.

I don't think having multiple chains active would break him but in most cases it wouldn't be a big deal. Most fights the health chain is the best option not because its the most damage its the most useful bonus. Thats why grundy's use it. If you go against superman or deathstroke and you're not using the defense chain you're doing something wrong. Having both would be nice but the power chain is still more or less worthles.

I'd like to see changes to the hurt box on his d2. Or the hit box. Give the hit box more u/f range or make the hit box lower. Right now grundy can get hit because he sticks his head above his anti air. Make the d2 main purpose as an anti cross up.

 

[BaronVonRupert]

Most of the initial suggestions seem to be geared towards making bad moves have some sort of a purpose. Sorry but in every 3d fighter there are useless moves or extraordinarily situational moves and this game really is based on 3d fighter mechanics. Changes mentioned to f122, f223 and 33 would still not make them moves I'd want to use. f1 for its reach and low hit 112/3 and d2 are your go to normals none of the changes would change that.

The only really good suggestion is changing the walking corpse cancel notation which I've suggested before. Make it a button press or make it just not cross over or at least make it register the initial input from the correct side.

I don't think the AA grab needs a mb but I think you need to be able to control the direction you throw them. In the corner under correct spacing my opponents best bet often is to jump at me blatantly so I can aa grab. As long as its a range where d2 will miss or trade it gets them out of the corner which is pretty contrary to a grappler design. I'd also like trait to have the option of throwing them left or right similiar to a regular throw for that reason and mb WC would also be nice to control the throw.

I don't think having multiple chains active would break him but in most cases it wouldn't be a big deal. Most fights the health chain is the best option not because its the most damage its the most useful bonus. Thats why grundy's use it. If you go against superman or deathstroke and you're not using the defense chain you're doing something wrong. Having both would be nice but the power chain is still more or less worthles.

I'd like to see changes to the hurt box on his d2. Or the hit box. Give the hit box more u/f range or make the hit box lower. Right now grundy can get hit because he sticks his head above his anti air. Make the d2 main purpose as an anti cross up.

i'm curious as to what you think about my suggestion. do you think that's too good or not a big deal?

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Most of the initial suggestions seem to be geared towards making bad moves have some sort of a purpose. Sorry but in every 3d fighter there are useless moves or extraordinarily situational moves and this game really is based on 3d fighter mechanics. Changes mentioned to f122, f223 and 33 would still not make them moves I'd want to use. f1 for its reach and low hit 112/3 and d2 are your go to normals none of the changes would change that.

The only really good suggestion is changing the walking corpse cancel notation which I've suggested before. Make it a button press or make it just not cross over or at least make it register the initial input from the correct side.

I don't think the AA grab needs a mb but I think you need to be able to control the direction you throw them. In the corner under correct spacing my opponents best bet often is to jump at me blatantly so I can aa grab. As long as its a range where d2 will miss or trade it gets them out of the corner which is pretty contrary to a grappler design. I'd also like trait to have the option of throwing them left or right similiar to a regular throw for that reason and mb WC would also be nice to control the throw.

I don't think having multiple chains active would break him but in most cases it wouldn't be a big deal. Most fights the health chain is the best option not because its the most damage its the most useful bonus. Thats why grundy's use it. If you go against superman or deathstroke and you're not using the defense chain you're doing something wrong. Having both would be nice but the power chain is still more or less worthles.

I'd like to see changes to the hurt box on his d2. Or the hit box. Give the hit box more u/f range or make the hit box lower. Right now grundy can get hit because he sticks his head above his anti air. Make the d2 main purpose as an anti cross up.

This

btw... I think d2's should all be invincible above the shoulders. They already scale damage hard. Grundy gets 50% ... but he still needs meter to pull that off.

the risk reward is usually ... attacker gets 40 - 50% and the defender gets usually around 29%.

But yeah... I think WCC should be a notation that doesn't cross up for sure.
I only suggest MB AA grab because I also suggested removing the reset..... which would take away the 50% AA d2. And because it would be badass.

 

[Nonameformedude]

I think the chains were very well made and dont need to be changed. The most useless chain being the power chain still has amazing positioning use since the just doing the first hit will leave them behind you. I really agree with his AA grab letting you dictate which way hes thrown thrown. The d2 rebuff would be nice, but its not needed imo. The trade is in grundys favor in my eyes and he also has an anti air grab.

[edit] you have to remember d2 is not just his anti jump in move, its his footsies

 

[afrozilla86]

Really most of these buffs are ridiculous. I see three basic buffs that would make Grundy move back to mid or higher. Number 1 swamp hands being only a frame or two slower than aqua man's from the deep. Number 2, mb swamp hands pulling them under ground and tossing them in the air in front of you slightly similar to how smoke's projectile does in mk9, but damage scales harder. Lastly, the most useless chain can discourage zoning in that if the character runs away Grundy recovers minimum HP back, nothing major maybe .5% a count or something if they are too far away.

 

[Red Reaper]

Since every other mid tier character is always getting buffed I thought Grundy should get some love too so he becomes more viable.

Arrow got nerfed.....

Twice...

 

[Error]

Arrow got nerfed.....

Twice...

RIP guaranteed super and potential corner infinite traps, RIP Oliver Queen.

 

[Red Reaper]

RIP guaranteed super and potential corner infinite traps, RIP Oliver Queen.

Just disproving his point. Not saying it was a bad choice to have his stuff nerfed.

 

[The Ultimate]

The only changes I want to Grundy:

Make his trait grabs unclashable. If you have to take away his reset to do it, so be it. You need one meter to do the reset, and on average, the reset only adds about an extra 12% damage to a combo that already does about half life or more.

Make his defense chain grab do 27% total damage. A strategy that Grundy seems to be adapting is playing lame, especially against characters like Superman and GL. Once we land that defense chain, we can lame it out, but we have to land it and we have to have a good life lead. Make it so that the chain does more damage. A six percent increase in damage I think is far from unreasonable.

Make his WCC into a DD motion.


That is all.

 

[plagueburial]

Aquaman's d2 is the best in the game, it is faster than grundy's AND reaches higher than grundy's.

But let's be serious here, if grundy had 2x on all of his traits he probably still wouldn't even be top 5 in the game lol. Black Adam and Superman would probably still beat him for free. How could you say that's broken

Because those characters are unbalanced. Making everything broken isn't going to balance the game. Instead of buffing everyone they should Nerf the broken characters.

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[Nonameformedude]

Really most of these buffs are ridiculous. I see three basic buffs that would make Grundy move back to mid or higher. Number 1 swamp hands being only a frame or two slower than aqua man's from the deep. Number 2, mb swamp hands pulling them under ground and tossing them in the air in front of you slightly similar to how smoke's projectile does in mk9, but damage scales harder. Lastly, the most useless chain can discourage zoning in that if the character runs away Grundy recovers minimum HP back, nothing major maybe .5% a count or something if they are too far away.

What? You are asking for them to rework the character. He is literally perfect for what hes made for right now, a grappler.

The only changes I want to Grundy:

Make his trait grabs unclashable. If you have to take away his reset to do it, so be it. You need one meter to do the reset, and on average, the reset only adds about an extra 12% damage to a combo that already does about half life or more.

Make his defense chain grab do 27% total damage. A strategy that Grundy seems to be adapting is playing lame, especially against characters like Superman and GL. Once we land that defense chain, we can lame it out, but we have to land it and we have to have a good life lead. Make it so that the chain does more damage. A six percent increase in damage I think is far from unreasonable.

Make his WCC into a DD motion.


That is all.

I dont understand why grundy players dont want to work within the rules of the game. Having your most damaging combo ender be unclashable is not balanced, and he has unclashable combos like everyone else. The match doesnt have to be free for grundy to be viable. The reset leads to his vortex, taking away that would completely take away that option from his game, it also greatly reduces the viability of grave rot since it is most consistently applicable canceled off of a b1 into the reset grab(turning 31 into 40 aint bad man, theres more than the six percent you wanted to add to your defense chain).

I still sort of agree on the WCC change, but just remember that if you ever cancel to punish a NJ(the situation you will most likely be doing that for)you will be forced to get hit and blown up for free because you wanted the motion to be slightly easier.

 

[Zoidberg747]

You want Grundy to have more armor. I lol'd.

 

[Jeffreys]

Most of the initial suggestions seem to be geared towards making bad moves have some sort of a purpose. Sorry but in every 3d fighter there are useless moves or extraordinarily situational moves and this game really is based on 3d fighter mechanics. Changes mentioned to f122, f223 and 33 would still not make them moves I'd want to use. f1 for its reach and low hit 112/3 and d2 are your go to normals none of the changes would change that.

The only really good suggestion is changing the walking corpse cancel notation which I've suggested before. Make it a button press or make it just not cross over or at least make it register the initial input from the correct side.

I don't think the AA grab needs a mb but I think you need to be able to control the direction you throw them. In the corner under correct spacing my opponents best bet often is to jump at me blatantly so I can aa grab. As long as its a range where d2 will miss or trade it gets them out of the corner which is pretty contrary to a grappler design. I'd also like trait to have the option of throwing them left or right similiar to a regular throw for that reason and mb WC would also be nice to control the throw.

I don't think having multiple chains active would break him but in most cases it wouldn't be a big deal. Most fights the health chain is the best option not because its the most damage its the most useful bonus. Thats why grundy's use it. If you go against superman or deathstroke and you're not using the defense chain you're doing something wrong. Having both would be nice but the power chain is still more or less worthles.

I'd like to see changes to the hurt box on his d2. Or the hit box. Give the hit box more u/f range or make the hit box lower. Right now grundy can get hit because he sticks his head above his anti air. Make the d2 main purpose as an anti cross up.

It isn't bad moves its useless strings, F2,2,3 literally serves no purpose, B1,3 should be a string on block, otherwise that too serves no purpose other than getting hit by the initial B1 in the corner. 3,3 could be his best preasure string but it has such a slow startup it is useless. I can agree with you if these strings had some situational purpose but they don't. We shouldn't relegate our thinking to- "well if other games have useless strings this game should have it too." I need a better argument.

I will however add the walking corpse cancel button to the list and the better D2 in the initial list.


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[Nonameformedude]

It isn't bad moves its useless strings, F2,2,3 literally serves no purpose, B1,3 should be a string on block, otherwise that too serves no purpose other than getting hit by the initial B1 in the corner. 3,3 could be his best preasure string but it has such a slow startup it is useless. I can agree with you if these strings had some situational purpose but they don't. We shouldn't relegate our thinking to- "well if other games have useless strings this game should have it too." I need a better argument.

I will however add the walking corpse cancel button to the list and the better D2 in the initial list.


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I think these strings do have purposes, or better said "uses", you just have to find the situations for them. @topper2ath even gave a use for the f223 string in his fourth video, that wasnt reliant on the opponent respecting his cancel options. Not every string is going to be applicable in every situation. Not every button is a good button. A KF player needs to know 4 things; slide, f3, crossover3, b1xxslide. she has many tools, but these are just the best tools. I really think everyone asking for massive buffs just dont want to work with their character, which is strange because you chose to main them.

b13 should connect on block doe, again how it is right now is just dumb. AT THE VERY LEAST b1xx4 should connect. This literally removes b1 from grundys game unless you hit confirm from an air 2 or you are doing the vortex

 

[Jeffreys]

F2,2's was once useful because you could get a guaranteed WC. Now the opponent can just jump right before the WC connects. F2,2,3 creates a gap between you and your opponent on hit AND block.

I don't see a use here.


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[Jeffreys]

You want Grundy to have more armor. I lol'd.

MB B3 some more then get back to me.


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[1truking]

It isn't bad moves its useless strings, F2,2,3 literally serves no purpose, B1,3 should be a string on block, otherwise that too serves no purpose other than getting hit by the initial B1 in the corner. 3,3 could be his best preasure string but it has such a slow startup it is useless. I can agree with you if these strings had some situational purpose but they don't. We shouldn't relegate our thinking to- "well if other games have useless strings this game should have it too." I need a better argument.

I will however add the walking corpse cancel button to the list and the better D2 in the initial list.


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I guess you didn't read my post. In all 3d fighers there are useless moves. In most 2d fighters there are useless moves too. The buffs you suggest won't make me use those moves. They really aren't even needed with the design. Unless you give me a 12 frame or less combo starter I don't have need to use anything else. No point in having b13 a pressure chain or 33 a pressure chain or have any use at all. In fact 3's main purpose seems to be to punish you for screwing up a walking corpse input which I'm also fine with.