Block Breakers in MKX

[Matix218]

A less costly pushblock is the solution....

That is only a solution to characters like erron black with his command grab mixups. True 50/50 or vortex characters it doesnt help with very much because you still have to ultimately guess high or low and if you get hit by either you are launched. You cant block break when you have already been hit. This change would nerf characters with good pressure but less 50/50 combo starters and by doing so essentially buff the true 50/50 vortex characters.

 

[Audit]

The problem with this, just off hand, is that to block breaker, you have to, you know, block. so it's not really a way to mitigate 50/50s because if you already have blocked the 50/50 you already in a position to punish as the reward for blocking it. Why would you block breaker to reset to neutral in that situation?

I'm honestly trying to see how this would help, but if you can block enough to use the block breaker you should just punish after the block anyway. If you're trying to stop the 50/50 situation before it gets to the point you have to guess with block breaker, it's not going to happen because the hardest 50/50s to block are the ones that happen on first hit.

 

[Evil Canadian]

1 bar block breakers does absolutely nothing to quell a strong 50/50 game and then also punishes characters who have very straightforward attack strings(like Mileena or Johnny).

 

[ATP2014]

People are whining about 50/50s, not pressure. Erron Black is the only exception due to his mixup off a blocked 211. Block Breakers don't fix this problem.

That being said, Block Breakers are unviable due to their cost, and a change should be made where they can be practical, while at the same time not destroying the gameplan of pressure characters.

Despite what what most of TYM thinks, balancing a fighting game is an extremely complex process.

 

[RNLDRGN]

Also, in your attempts at finding solutions, you just made Johnny Cage and Kung Lao terrible. Bravo.

So Kung Lao is only good b/c ppl are hesitant to pushblock his pressure? Same with Johnny? This is a discussion. There's a middle ground.

I think everyone would agree that pushblocks are currently too costly. You don't think they're too costly?

 

[RiBBz22]

The solution is to remove the special cancel option selects to make most of the high damage output 50-50s in this game actually unsafe. I don't want push back from blocking correctly I want to punish you for taking a risk.

 

[Laos_boy]

While I think Block breaker should use one bar and half stamina. I don't think its the solution.
You still have to guess since most people have a first hit 50/50 and most of it is un safe so even if you guess right why would you miss out on a punish.

And yeah against quan chi it might help and defensive character would benefit

 

[coolwhip]

So Kung Lao is only good b/c ppl are hesitant to pushblock his pressure? Same with Johnny? This is a discussion. There's a middle ground.

I think everyone would agree that pushblocks are currently too costly. You don't think they're too costly?

No, but if you get to pushblock Lao and Johnny Cage's pressure, how on earth are they ever going to open you up reliably? I'd argue this would make 50/50 characters even better.

 

[Matix218]

Every 50/50 or vortex heavy character just needs to have at least one of their options (either the high or the low starter) be full combo punishable. That in my opinion would still leave most of those characters viable but would put an element of risk vs reward into the equation for the player. Isn't that the obvious solution?

 

[Eddy Wang]

Can we merge this to the Dave's thread? Its not like this discussion wasn't over there already

 

[IrishMantis]

I think this will hurt chars and certain play styles than it will help fix 50/50s imo

 

[Wetdoba]

Why would a block breaker be a 'solution', a 5050 is still a 5050, if you block it and use a block breaker whats the point? Thats basically throwing meter away

Because you aren't getting 50-50'd unless you already lost the neutral game. This gives you more opportunities to reset back to the neutral game without losing all resources

 

[haketh]

My point is that pressure in general isn't as scary if you can pushblock without using all your resources. I get it that you still get hit if you guess wrong.

Outside of very few edge cases pressure is fucking ass in this game, to many strings are negative. The few characters who have ways to keep pressure don't have the best mixup in this game so all you're doing is hurting them & not characters who have strong mixup.

 

[RNLDRGN]

No, but if you get to pushblock Lao and Johnny Cage's pressure, how on earth are they ever going to open you up reliably? I'd argue this would make 50/50 characters even better.

I didn't say pushblocks should be free. I just said they shouldn't cost 2 bars and all your stamina. That's all.

As is, there's almost never a reason to pushblock, unless you're already in the life lead and your character does good meterless damage.

 

[RNLDRGN]

Because you aren't getting 50-50'd unless you already lost the neutral game. This gives you more opportunities to reset back to the neutral game without losing all resources

THANK YOU

 

[Matix218]

Can we merge this to the Dave's thread? Its not like this discussion wasn't over there already

Dave's thread is so big and messy that any true gameplay discussion gets lost in the mire of popcorn gifs and shit talk lol. Lets have this thread be focused on discussing solutions without all of the crap

 

[SUPARNOVAX]

Where's the poll option for "Learn to play" ????

 

[DavS13]

 

[Matix218]

So anyway, back on topic:

Am I wrong in saying that making at least one of the 50/50 options (for the characters that have both a high and a low that lead to full combo) be full combo punishable basically fix the problem while still leaving the character viable? If you make both full combo punishable you get mk9 scorpion, if you make both safe you get IGAU batgirl. This seems like the easiest solution that could be fine in a patch. Once this is done just make pushblock use 1 bar and some stamina which takes care of getting erron black off of you and remove the stupid option selects that some characters have, buff some characters anti airs and don't you basically have the perfect game?

I feel this would address all of the complaints

 

[CrimsonShadow]

No, but if you get to pushblock Lao and Johnny Cage's pressure, how on earth are they ever going to open you up reliably?

Footsies are strong in this game, remember?

Just play footsies to open people up.

In all seriousness, I understand what the OP is talking about. I don't think it's necessarily the solution to the 50/50 problem, but it'd be more effective against characters like Raiden/Kung Jin/Jax, who tend to trap you in place with quick normals (Raiden's f12/f12b2, Jin's 11, NJP, Jax's 11) and then open you up with the 50/50. Also it would help against things like D'Vorah's +15 f112~bug cancel blockstring into guaranteed 50/50. Likewise if Scorpion is about to finish you off with his 40+% combo into the followup 10% in blockstring chip. It would also help you to get a little bit of space to breathe once you do block certain 50/50's correctly.

But, I'd really have to take a hard look at the gameplay to see how this would affect things overall.

 

[GuerillaTactix]

Why would a block breaker be a 'solution', a 5050 is still a 5050, if you block it and use a block breaker whats the point? Thats basically throwing meter away

Hahaha! /thread

Can people please realize that if you guess wrong on a 50/50, it's too late to push block?

Hahaha! /thread

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

Why is push block an answer? if you guess wrong you have to combo break, if you guess right a lot of the cast is punished or counter poked/ backdash out of their pressure

 

[RNLDRGN]

Where's the poll option for "Learn to play" ????

There's not one b/c this community is nothing but "GIT GUD" and "NERF/BUFF PLZ"

How bout a middle ground where pressure that leads into loads of incessant chip or a 50/50 or continuous safe offense can be pushblocked in the neutral without losing basically all your resources--allowing you to "learn to play" instead of sitting in blockstun or feeling defenseless against your opponent's offense (hence whining).

So anyway, back on topic:

Am I wrong in saying that making at least one of the 50/50 options (for the characters that have both a high and a low that lead to full combo) be full combo punishable basically fix the problem while still leaving the character viable? If you make both full combo punishable you get mk9 scorpion, if you make both safe you get IGAU batgirl. This seems like the easiest solution that could be fine in a patch. Once this is done just make pushblock use 1 bar and some stamina which takes care of getting erron black off of you and remove the stupid option selects that some characters have, buff some characters anti airs and don't you basically have the perfect game?

I feel this would address all of the complaints

True. But I don't feel that 50/50s are the only thing ppl complain about. If you nerf 50/50s then ppl will just whine that Raiden or Scorpion or Erron Black's pressure is too strong.

Having an easier way to pushblock and breathe for a minute addresses everyone's complaints without nerfing some characters into oblivion.

That said--I don't think you're wrong. But your suggestion is very character specific.

 

[ChaosTheory]

I think having worth-a-shit back dashes in the game would have more of a defensive impact.

A (cheap) block-breaker would be more effective in an MK9 style system.

 

[RNLDRGN]

Hahaha! /thread


Hahaha! /thread

Bc 50/50s aren't the only thing ppl complain about now. And if they nerf 50/50s ppl will complain about something else. I'm saying defense options in general are lacking. How many times i gotta say this? lol