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Match-up Discussion Becoming the Pope - The General Zod Matchup Thread

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Great stuff! I like organized videos with easily accessible info, but your videos where you just throw everything out without much planing is entertaining to watch to;)
I have something pressing to discuss that I found

Will do tonight or tomorrow
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
You forgot strong mid screen control. I cannot claim to be as experienced as you, and I agree Zod is strong, but while there is something to be said about ease of use. Projectiles, as with all moves, must balance utility and effectiveness. Zod is almost a mirror image of Sinestro, and are super similar. Zod isn't as effective, but has more utility, while Sinestro's projectiles have more general effectiveness but with less ways to use them. And both essentially build to the same goal: buy time until trait is up. And that's why they are the two strongest in the game, because their zoning serves two purposes. But that's off topic. The reason I give for Sinestro is because there is an inherent power to a move that's just good or requires little thought because it's up to your opponent to deal with it. You have the power in this scenario. And with a move that requires more thought, like Zod balls, is powered more by a players individual skill to use the move. Which means if your own proficiency isn't up to the task, this vital skill may just blow up in your face.
Phantom strike is mid screen control.

Individual skill and proficiency are irrelevant. Great players will master the task if given enough time. Just like great Kabal players mastered instant aerial gas blasts and nomad dash cancels when before people had thought that nobody would be able to do so. Likewise.
Zod's instant aerial slow force ball plays a tremendous part of Zod's core gameplay, but players have not yet mastered "head level" aerial slow force balls, even on the taller characters.

Besides, the proof is in the match ups. Zod performs better than Sinestro against the top tier characters of the game (i.e., Aquaman, Batgirl, Killer Frost, etc.).
 

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
I do think Sinestro is a better zoner than Zod but that being said, I don't think Zod is really a pure zoner. He relies more on getting knockdowns and momentum so he can set up his trait and forceballs. Also, force push is a really good move but it can be MBed and is death for Zod on whiff.
 

Colonel-Gilgamesh

Hates NRS for making me not like Superman
Phantom strike is mid screen control.

Individual skill and proficiency are irrelevant. Great players will master the task if given enough time. Just like great Kabal players mastered instant aerial gas blasts and nomad dash cancels when before people had thought that nobody would be able to do so. Likewise.
Zod's instant aerial slow force ball plays a tremendous part of Zod's core gameplay, but players have not yet mastered "head level" aerial slow force balls, even on the taller characters.

Besides, the proof is in the match ups. Zod performs better than Sinestro against the top tier characters of the game (i.e., Aquaman, Batgirl, Killer Frost, etc.).
Actually, I was more referring to Zod Charge. I don't like PS at mid range that much. People like to jump at you at that range, and well, it's painful. Still useful of course.

But individual skill does matter. It's not the entire part, but it does. You'll excuse me, I don't know much about MK other than what I hear from the grapevine, so I'll use a player comparison: Chris G. Yeah, yeah, going for the top immediately, whatever. But before Chris G innovated her, NO ONE gave two shits about Morrigan in UMVC3. Then he practically spent a year or so striking fear into the hearts of men. Or Nemo with his Doctor Strange Loop teams. And of course Chris G's Green Arrow. But back with Morrigan, MorriDoom is a 9-1 matchup with almost every character in that game on paper because it becomes an immovable bullet hell. Yet, Jrosa is the only other person I know who successfully runs that team in tournaments(even if I forget something). So that's if it works, but usually it doesn't. MUs do not, by nature, factor in the human element, however, this thinking is poor BECAUSE the human plays too integral a part in the MU experience. MorriDoom is only 9-1 when Chris G is piloting, and Green Arrow is only a real threat in his hands too at the moment. There is a threshold certain characters have to cross before they become as good as most upplayers would say. Zod is one, and Morrigan is another.

My point is this: Zod is a character with VAST potential. But his tools are precision tools. It's going to take a lot of toil and sweat and individual skill to get him to his highest level where his MUs are more appropriate to what you say they are, and until then, I have to say Sinestro is better because his keepaway tools are simply easier to use. The margin separating Sinestro on Zod is razor thin to me. The only real concern, as I have mentioned is that Sinestro's tools require less precision, and I'd like to see a better mid from him.

Funny little aside, for all my talk about Zod being more precision and Sinestro being more general? Totally reversed when they have their respective traits out. Sinestro has to choose his Trait shots wisely to succeed, while Zod's trait is just so overpowering in the 4 seconds it's out.

I'm with Cowboy on this one, I think Zod's a better MU in some of those matches because he's much more capable up close than Sinestro.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Makes sense

Personally I play everyone so I know who is who but my statement above covers people who play nothing but ranked and randoms and then proceed to make MU charts

I haven't released a MU chart yet because still there a top players w each character I need to play that I won't be able to till NEc
Good talk.
 

Colonel-Gilgamesh

Hates NRS for making me not like Superman
Zod is only better up close with trait. He has no mix ups otherwise while Sinestro has a vortex.
Zod has a 50/50 he can dash out of. And he hits much harder than Sinestro. Sinestro's most powerful mixup is a non mixup Jumping Ax. I don't even think he gets a combo off a low starter, though I know little outside his wiki page and cannot check at the moment. At least Zod isn't as balls crushingly unsafe as Sinestro is.
 

STORMBEARDFIREHAMMER

Child Progidy
any1 who plays zod is a pusie i see all these guys thinkin there tuff with there lasers and they got a GUY to hit u for him... grow some balls and fight like a man
 

MKB

Forum General Emeritus
my dad says i aint a sientist... get up close and fight me see what happens, i got 50% combos... what you got??
I have the power of the banhammer. Guaranteed 100% everytime. Once the opposition gets hit, they don't come back for more...ever.

Edit: apparently he wants a sampling of the power. Trolling a staff member isn't exactly the smartest thing to do.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
The Zod - WW MU seems a bit hard for me these days. If the WW players what he/she is doing and has mastered the IADG things get a bit hard for him to use air zb's to keep her out. How do you guys play against a WW player who knows the MU?
 

Disaster FX

Boom Bap Dragon
The Zod - WW MU seems a bit hard for me these days. If the WW players what he/she is doing and has mastered the IADG things get a bit hard for him to use air zb's to keep her out. How do you guys play against a WW player who knows the MU?
I play this very patiently and defensively. And I use more Side Arm in that match up than Zodballs. Side Arm can catch IADG, and the threat of MB Side Arm should have her ducking them rather than trying to parry them. Just remember that no matter how the match goes, WW has to chase you. She can sit full screen in shield stance to reduce chip if she wants to, but that also means she loses access to IADG and it'll be harder to stop you from summoning trait.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
How do you guys feel about the match vs Green Arrow?

As time goes on I don't think the match is as bad as people have been saying outside of a few stages maybe. Stages aside though I've been able to deal with zods zoning a lot better but I need more matches to know for sure. Arrow can put in arrow on screen right before jumping over any slow force ball to move in safely. You can reaction jump safely over any fast force ball to close the distance also. Traits an issue to deal with but you can make it hard for zod to pull it out as long as you have momentum with arrows.

I pretty much spend the whole match trying to push zod to the corner while dealing damage with fire arrows. GA has a great corner game and I think zod does struggle when he gets cornered.

I know this isn't incredibly in depth but I'd like to know how zod players feel about this match up.
 

Colonel-Gilgamesh

Hates NRS for making me not like Superman
So with NEC coming up soon, we should focus our efforts on MMH. Maybe discover a special crack in his awesome abilities