Tech - Sub-Zero B3,3 (and 1,2) + IB Connecting on wakeup males.

[Lokheit]

I'm not sure if this tech was already known, I realized it now and haven't heard about it so posting here hoping to help.

I already knew that against a male character walking forward, if you whiff the first hit of B33 and hit the second, you can connect into Iceball just like with female characters.

That wasn't really useful as it has to be someone walking without presenting a threat to you.

But today I realized when trying some rushdown strategies that if you do the same against an opponent waking up, whiffing the first hit of either B3,3 or 1,2 you can connect an Iceball from a low hit without needing the corner.

F33 has the perfect timing for you to run and then whiff the B3,3 if they try to wake up inmediately with a reversal they will eat the second hit and the iceball unless they armor up.

Honestly, I think this move is messed up, none of its properties makes sense, connecting always on females, against everyone on the corner or under special conditions if you whiff the first hit... NRS should fix this move and declare if it's intended to connect or not, then they can focus on correctly balancing Sub-Zero knowing for sure if he has a midscreen 50/50 game against the whole cast or not. Frame data says it should connect on everyone but I would be ok if it's declared to not connect on everyone outside the corner as long as it opens the door for proper balance on this character.

 

[C88 Zombieekiler]

What if they wake up? Gets beat? And f33 is meh

 

[Lokheit]

What if they wake up? Gets beat? And f33 is meh

It beats non armored wakeups. Tested against the fastest in the game.

This works with other strings, F33 was an example as the timing is just perfect. IMHO F33 might be one of our most useful strings (second fastest starter, advances on second hit, decent damage, includes a low midstring, can be cancelled into stuff like EX hammer for low->overhead mixup, it's safe and it gives huge advantage and knockback if you let it finish), but that's just a matter of opinion I guess.

It works well with the timing of the regular slide too (the EX one is giving me a hard time, probably not possible because there is too little time to reach his body and whiff the first hit, and if done from too far it won't work) so you can use the momentum of your own surprise wakeup to put him on a 50/50 on his own wakeup. The first hit will whiff too and the second one will connect into Iceball.

Seriously this move is completly messed up and NRS HAS to decide what they want to do with it.

I think this can be used to apply pressure against opponents with no meter (or that depend too much on it). They can always block low instead of using a reversal, so I'd recommend to use this just ocasionally, maybe mixing it with well timed B2s so you can train them to block high on wakeup.

 

[llabslb]

This seems more like a bug rather than tech. It's just weird.

 

[Lokheit]

This seems more like a bug rather than tech. It's just weird.

Well, the whole B33 "connect in females, not in males" thing seems like a bug from the beginning of the game and the situation has never been adressed (just taking or giving a couple of cancel advantage frames to the move would solve it without needing to correct the collision boxes). This is just a subproduct of the original non corrected situation that we can use to create more opportunities against the characters that we couldn't freeze after a B33.

According to frame data the bug is that it should connect on everyone and it isn't connecting. They probably refused to fix it at launch because it would feel like a buff for a character that all noobs think is OP because of the clone making them play differently, but at this point I don't think it would hurt to adress the situation (even if it means not connecting on anyone, as I said I prefer them to define how they want it to work so they can then proceed to balance the character correctly).

 

[Lokheit]

Sorry for double post, there is a very obsucre string because most players cancel it before that point, B33D4, all hit lows and a knockdown just in front of you. Thanks to this whiff tech, against a meterless opponent it guarantees they will have to guess between the low B33 whiff or a B2 and you don't even need to run to them, so where against females you would hitconfirm your B33 into Iceball on hit, you can hit confirm your B33 into D4 on hit against males. It's not as effective but gives you a flip coin for a meterless combo after landing a B33 where before you would have to sue meter to get a combo.

 

[n1kosh]

ex iceball - 8 on block. It's hard punish.
I use:
12, ex iceball
b12, ex iceball
f33, ex iceball
I allways use rushdown gameplay for sub-zero
P.S. b12 too slow.. 12 and f33 better

 

[Lokheit]

ex iceball - 8 on block. It's hard punish.
I use:
12, ex iceball
b12, ex iceball
f33, ex iceball
I allways use rushdown gameplay for sub-zero
P.S. b12 too slow.. 12 and f33 better

I don't see how is that related to the topic of the thread. I mean, this is about not needing to use EX Iceball after B33 because of the tech/glitch on wakeup leading into meterless mixups.

 

[NB Semi Evil Ryu]

I'm not sure if this tech was already known, I realized it now and haven't heard about it so posting here hoping to help.

I already knew that against a male character walking forward, if you whiff the first hit of B33 and hit the second, you can connect into Iceball just like with female characters.

That wasn't really useful as it has to be someone walking without presenting a threat to you.

But today I realized when trying some rushdown strategies that if you do the same against an opponent waking up, whiffing the first hit of either B3,3 or 1,2 you can connect an Iceball from a low hit without needing the corner.

F33 has the perfect timing for you to run and then whiff the B3,3 if they try to wake up inmediately with a reversal they will eat the second hit and the iceball unless they armor up.

Honestly, I think this move is messed up, none of its properties makes sense, connecting always on females, against everyone on the corner or under special conditions if you whiff the first hit... NRS should fix this move and declare if it's intended to connect or not, then they can focus on correctly balancing Sub-Zero knowing for sure if he has a midscreen 50/50 game against the whole cast or not. Frame data says it should connect on everyone but I would be ok if it's declared to not connect on everyone outside the corner as long as it opens the door for proper balance on this character.

Good to know. I might be playing around with this for a bit. My tool for pressure on an opponent waking up with no meter has been just a meaty B2 and then following up appropriately.

I'm still trying to get the hang of the B33 option select, so if I can master the OS and then add this tech of yours into my arsenal.......

Profit.