What's new

General/Other - Unbreakable Analysing Unbreakable

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
REVIEW: UPDATE SINCE PREDATOR.

Approach reading this like a review of something you are considering trying out, this isn't a buff post, it's basically a review.

I have really ground out Unbreakable as much as possible since release whilst playing other characters, and I am going to make some comparisons and criticisms of how the variation still needs rounded off.

Let me start by saying, I love the variation idea, I use it all the time, I love how different it is from every other variation in the game, but with the move sets that some characters have, and with serious time spent with what I feel is a true understanding of what is going on in the variation, it appears to just be a poor version of some current variations in the game, except it is just dressed differently.

This post is only to underline the criticisms I have, and last time I checked, this is a forum.

PARRY:
The parry in this game doesn't really work as well as you would think, as there are not a lot of string gaps to abuse traditionally in the cast, and because JIP 1 or 2 into 13/15 frame start up normals still chain without a gap, you can't really use it to great effect.

However, it is basically a mid hitting, free armoured move without the use of meter, but because it starts up in 6 frames, you still can't abuse it (Normal or MB) after his strings, most of which are -6, meaning most of the cast with 8 frame normals can still just string you anyway, and even if you think about using the MB version which is 3 frames, you can still be hit out of it, and when you can't threaten the parry after strings very well, then it becomes kind of useless, it can even be stuffed on wake up if you don't MB it, which means that even though it is unique as a move, it would never take priority over KL's MB spin, Sub Zero's MB Slide or Ice Blast, or Kung Jin's MB Spin (and its safe), this basically means that characters that don't have a parry, DO HAVE moves that equal it, it loses it's priority when selecting a character, and the fact that you have a parry diminishes.

For example, if you want to play totally defensive for competitive play, why choose Unbreakable when Tempest Lao beats it at every turn? Same with zoning, if you want to hard zone, why choose the 3rd or 4th best version in the game...

JUMP INS:
Even if you spend a bar of meter, the MB parry doesn't parry a jump in, where as Raiden's MB Shocker or Kung Lao's MB Spin will stop a jump in and still allow a combo, it will also be armoured.

So again, the parry becomes a worse version of something almost every character has, even with a bar spent.

RECOVERY:
The parry can also be used to stop projectiles and take no chip, although you get no meter if you successfully deflect a projectile.

Th recovery is huge! Once you deflect a projectile with the parry, you still sit in the recovery animation and allow opponents to run in and begin offence and in some cases punish you, so it takes no priority over basic commands that the entire cast has, such as jumping, crouching, or blocking...

It seems like you should be able to parry the move and recover straight out of the parry animation and have the opponent sit in the block disadvantage or recovery frames of the move while you move forward to gain an advantage, maybe even a parried projectile should give you a few chips of meter, really anything to reward you, because at this point, why even bother?

AURA:
While the aura takes no chip damage, which is a great feature, he really has no offence to couple the threat of it. He gains minimal advantage from F4 Aura, and thats it. No other string is safe or has advantage, none of his major strings allow this, B12, F42, 12, 123 etc.

The MB version takes less damage, but he can still receive 8% throws, if you are playing this variation, you are dealing with small percentage differences, getting thrown for 8% can be a big deal.

Other characters like Quan chi can use a portal to sit in armour while most of the cast can't really do anything to get him out of it without getting strings blown through and even combo links destroyed, and remember that it costs NO METER! so even though the aura move may seem quite unique, there are other versions of this move that are infinitely more powerful. Again...if you want to play uber defensively, why not just use Quan chi's Summoner? Unbreakable doesn't punish the opponent for rushing you down, it just encourages it, and when the parry isn't really reliable as a back up once they are in, it kind of defeats the purpose.

UPDATE*: If you read one thing, read this.
Kotal kahn has received a buff for his totem that completely destroys Unbreakable making it further more obsolete. This buff allows Kotal to bring out a totem in absolutely no time whatsoever, for TOTALLY free, requiring no meter to receive the same effect that the MA Aura has.

Kotal kahn can still opt to use his meter drain and damage boost totems instead of the chip and damage reduction totems at any point in the match, so when he has gathered the lead, he can put the opponent to bed easily with a damage totem and blood sacrifice, while Sub bags 30% for a jump in... this completely puts Unbreakable to bed...

WHY DOES AURA NOT NEGATE OPPONENT METER BUILDING?:
I have updated this as I feel that would be too strong, when really all it would take is his Parry to recover instantly, this would smooth out the meter building advantage that the opponent would get from having a stand off with projectiles. If Sub could parry the projectiles both him and the opponent would gather the chip of meter and the opponent wouldn't get the second chip because the shield would negate the block.

REASONABLE BUFFS:

1. Regular Aura cancels from B12, F4, F42 and 12 should grant +10 advantage, this would allow for a standing 1 to jail, or follow up with a B1 or F4 that could be armoured through, and his B3 and B2 back dash punished.

2. MB Aura cancels should allow combos from the same strings to extend into B12 Ice ball etc.

3. MB Aura should give a damage buff.

If anyone played this variation against top players, they will see that it really lacks something to scare the opponent, you almost become like a punching bag that can't block forever (even if the variation forces you to do so), because in this variation, you literally have no other choice than to block, and like I said earlier, the parry doesn't really come to rescue and make up for offensive tool taken away, and while you block, the opponent just builds and builds.

Its not uncommon for characters that were already good in a specific variation to get fixed in other variations, like Shinnok, Kung Lao, and Quan Chi, so I don't understand how Unbreakable was passed so easily, maybe the Grandmaster out rage just shadowed over everything...

My bottom line opinion is that Unbreakable feels unfinished and a bit feels a bit like rolling an egg down a hill, even though it is a good idea, it is just a poor man's version of other variations in the game, but cleverly disguised as something else entirely.
 
Last edited:

Triplswing

your soe will BERRN
Does frost aura counter Hellfire's flame aura?

Because I think he might be a good matchup against HF scorpion due to the ridiculously powerful and uninterruptible blockstring he can do. Hellfire can seriously chip you to death in any match.
 
I think the biggest downfall of this variation is that he loses his AA option and ultimately gets mauled since he has no threats to stop jump ins whatsoever.
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
I just play this variation aggressive as hell and use MB Ice Aura to power through

I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as you say, but the lack of AA and wake up is definitely a little hobbling
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
This variation needs the ice smash move more than any of the others.

I think they coudl go in a completely different direction with his parry as well.
Let the normal one do command grab damage and startup in 3 frames.

Let the ex Parry cover all attacks (all) and grant the combo it gets now.

Ice aura stays the same all around, except now with the ice smash he can do ehte same thing to his aura that he does with his clone. The one thing about the Aura is that you can't constantly put yourself at the advantage the the cancel allows you while it is active. The smash will now allow you to continue that pressure, as well as let you really expand how long the aura lasts.

thats my opinion.

I also feel exactly how you do about this variation. I find it completely underwhelming. No new strings. Removing specials. Its so bland and unvariable.
 

LaidbackOne

Scrubby nice guy
I am really disappointed in this variation. I love how it plays but I feel like it lacks something (I said this about 100 times already). It would be great if he got a damage boost while in aura, because he has the worst damage out of all 3 variations and he is the most meter dependant one. Not being able to go more than 36 damage meterless (fucking strict timing) in corner is pretty fucked up. So far I am getting away with b12 freeze b12 aura pressure, but only because people dont know they can get out of it easily. Basically I agree 100% with Glue. This variation needs some tweaks.
 
Last edited:

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
Does frost aura counter Hellfire's flame aura?

Because I think he might be a good matchup against HF scorpion due to the ridiculously powerful and uninterruptible blockstring he can do. Hellfire can seriously chip you to death in any match.
The issue with the parry on projectiles is being stuck in the animation of the parry, meaning the opponent can just run in and some can punish you.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
The issue with the parry on projectiles is being stuck in the animation of the parry, meaning the opponent can just run in and some can punish you.
I can't justify using this variation over Cryo at all
Cryo can at least AA with the exSmash and gets massive massive damage with roughly the same tools.

Unbreakable needs to live up to the name.... Right now ... just.... ice.

What would you suggest to bring some light to the variation? I saw a few "overview" things... but nothing that really stood out to say "this variation does X well"
 

Skkra

PSN: Skkra
This is my favorite variation of any character in the game. I love the idea behind him, but the execution feels lacking. Unbreakable should be low damage but extremely defensive.

The entire variation should revolve around the ice shield. At least, I imagine that's what they had in mind. For that, it should start up faster though... fast enough to counter an opponent counterpoking after one of his strings. He needs a good setup for this, but right now his frames dont lend themselves to this as @UsedForGlue mentioned in the original post. So that setup kind of goes out the window.

Not being able to anti-air is another issue. At the very least, let his EX shield stop ALL attacks. Jumping, neutral jumping, etc etc.

The recommendation that his "ice" not only prevent chip but also opponent meter building is also awesome, though it may be overpowered. However, just balancing things out a bit around the use of shield as a serious deterrent to people pushing buttons on you should be enough to make this variant more workable.
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
thats my opinion.

I also feel exactly how you do about this variation. I find it completely underwhelming. No new strings. Removing specials. Its so bland and unvariable.
He could with another string, maybe an extension of F42, that maybe has 3 or 4 hits, and pushes far back on block, something to keep the defensive game going.

I honestly thing negating the opponents meter build while landing blocked hits on sub zero while in Aura would really being nice, it would reward you for blocking and force the opponent to approach the match differently.
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
The recommendation that his "ice" not only prevent chip but also opponent meter building is also awesome, though it may be overpowered. However, just balancing things out a bit around the use of shield as a serious deterrent to people pushing buttons on you should be enough to make this variant more workable.
I don't think removing the opponents meter building on block would be OP.

The variation is about blocking, and considering his damage out put is very low, and his offence is also limited, you build no meter in return, so the opponent always wins the meter game just for Sub Zero using the variation the way it seems to be intended.
 
Last edited:

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
I remember when the parry worked on jumping attacks pre-release, and regular aura also decreased damage taken.

We called it Unbeatable Sub Zero.

Good times.
 

Sage-Of-Light

Student of Nature
REVIEW:

Approach reading this like a review of something you are considering trying out, this isn't a buff post, it's basically a review.

I have really ground out Unbreakable as much as possible since release whilst playing other characters, and I am going to make some comparisons and criticisms of how the variation still needs rounded off.

Let me start by saying, I love the variation idea, I use it all the time, I love how different it is from every other variation in the game, but with the move sets that some characters have, and with serious time spent with what I feel is a true understanding of what is going on in the variation, it appears to just be a poor version of some current variations in the game, except it is just dressed differently.

This post is only to underline the criticisms I have, and last time I checked, this is a forum.

PARRY:
The parry in this game doesn't really work as well as you would think, as there are not a lot of string gaps to abuse traditionally in the cast, and because JIP 1 or 2 into 13/15 frame start up normals still chain without a gap, you can't really use it to great effect.

However, it is basically a mid hitting, free armoured move without the use of meter, but because it starts up in 6 frames, you still can't abuse it (Normal or MB) after his strings, most of which are -6, meaning most of the cast with 8 frame normals can still just string you anyway, and even if you think about using the MB version which is 3 frames, you can still be hit out of it, and when you can't threaten the parry after strings very well, then it becomes kind of useless, it can even be stuffed on wake up if you don't MB it, which means that even though it is unique as a move, it would never take priority over KL's MB spin, Sub Zero's MB Slide or Ice Blast, or Kung Jin's MB Spin (and its safe), this basically means that characters that don't have a parry, DO HAVE moves that equal it, it loses it's priority when selecting a character, and the fact that you have a parry diminishes.

For example, if you want to play totally defensive for competitive play, why choose Unbreakable when Tempest Lao beats it at every turn? Same with zoning, if you want to hard zone, why choose the 3rd or 4th best version in the game...

JUMP INS:
Even if you spend a bar of meter, the MB parry doesn't parry a jump in, where as Raiden's MB Shocker or Kung Lao's MB Spin will stop a jump in and still allow a combo, it will also be armoured.

So again, the parry becomes a worse version of something almost every character has, even with a bar spent.

RECOVERY:
The parry can also be used to stop projectiles and take no chip, although you get no meter if you successfully deflect a projectile.

Th recovery is huge! Once you deflect a projectile with the parry, you still sit in the recovery animation and allow opponents to run in and begin offence and in some cases punish you, so it takes no priority over basic commands that the entire cast has, such as jumping, crouching, or blocking...

It seems like you should be able to parry the move and recover straight out of the parry animation and have the opponent sit in the block disadvantage or recovery frames of the move while you move forward to gain an advantage, maybe even a parried projectile should give you a few chips of meter, really anything to reward you, because at this point, why even bother?

AURA:
While the aura takes no chip damage, which is a great feature, he really has no offence to couple the threat of it. He gains minimal advantage from F4 Aura, and thats it. No other string is safe or has advantage, none of his major strings allow this, B12, F42, 12, 123 etc.

The MB version takes less damage, but he can still receive 8% throws, if you are playing this variation, you are dealing with small percentage differences, getting thrown for 8% can be a big deal.

Other characters like Quan chi can use a portal to sit in armour while most of the cast can't really do anything to get him out of it without getting strings blown through and even combo links destroyed, and remember that it costs NO METER! so even though the aura move may seem quite unique, there are other versions of this move that are infinitely more powerful. Again...if you want to play uber defensively, why not just use Quan chi's Summoner? Unbreakable doesn't punish the opponent for rushing you down, it just encourages it, and when the parry isn't really reliable as a back up once they are in, it kind of defeats the purpose.

WHY DOES AURA NOT NEGATE OPPONENT METER BUILDING?:
Something that makes me feel like I am not getting rewarded for blocking in this variation, is that the opponent receives the same normal meter building, while Sub Zero receives none for successful blocks. In my opinion, it would have been a good idea to possibly not allow the opponent to gain meter for having moves blocked while hitting an Aura activated Sub zero on block. This would allow Sub Zero to play his defensive play style as the opponent can't just turtle him and gain tons of meter because Sub Zero is using the Aura properties that he is given, no reward to returned. Yes, you take no chip, but you can barely do any in return, and the opponent receives meter for his troubles.

That last idea is a good idea, and would help the variation whilst making total sense, but there are many more directions this move could have went:

1. Meter build is increased from block strings.
2. Higher damage output.
3. Strings gain major block stun and advantage
4. With every blocked move, the opponent becomes slower for a short period of time, as if the aura is freezing them.
5. Aqua man trait properties with MB version.
6. My original though, the opponent builds no meter for successful blocks on Sub Zero.

If anyone played this variation against top players, they will see that it really lacks something to scare the opponent, you almost become like a punching bag that can't block forever (even if the variation forces you to do so), because in this variation, you literally have no other choice than to block, and like I said earlier, the parry doesn't really come to rescue and make up for offensive tool taken away, and while you block, the opponent just builds and builds.

Its not uncommon for characters that were already good in a specific variation to get fixed in other variations, like Shinnok, Kung Lao, and Quan Chi, so I don't understand how Unbreakable was passed so easily, maybe the Grandmaster out rage just shadowed over everything...

My bottom line opinion is that Unbreakable feels unfinished and a bit feels a bit like rolling an egg down a hill, even though it is a good idea, it is just a poor man's version of other variations in the game, but cleverly disguised as something else entirely.
tatally agree Real Talk and are you still on psn?
 

Tavaski

Get tough, or die
Ice aura stays the same all around, except now with the ice smash he can do ehte same thing to his aura that he does with his clone.
I was thinking the same thing. I believe the animation for this move is already in the game; you can see it when you do an aerial breaker. I call it Ice splinter.