Move List - Raiden ALL variants now have F12B2! (+ other changes)

[Tom Brady]

No. Leave b2 special cancel-able. Just remove the option select. b2~ex-shocker DOES serve a purpose if you're going to make a read. Sometimes you're in positions where the first hit of b2 will reach, but the 2nd hit won't and you want to make a read. A read you can get blown up for though.

Don't make b2 non-special cancel-able. Just remove the OS please.

From what I understand, removing the OS in the game is off the table. With that being said, B2 cannot remain able to be special cancelled out of. No way Raiden needs a safe 50/50.

 

[B W1zZ]

From what I understand, removing the OS in the game is off the table. With that being said, B2 cannot remain able to be special cancelled out of. No way Raiden needs a safe 50/50.

He needs it.

 

[Chaosphere]

From what I understand, removing the OS in the game is off the table. With that being said, B2 cannot remain able to be special cancelled out of. No way Raiden needs a safe 50/50.

Of course not. I've thought the OS was dumb the instant I heard about it. But I guess if it's not possible to fix, then I guess make b2 non special cancelable.

 

[Chaosphere]

Or how about do nothing unless it's warranted. Right now we are all theory fighting. How about we take the "wait and see if any adjustments are necessary" approach as opposed to the "..hmm how should we nerf Raiden next" one.

No. A safe 50/50 is ridiculous. Nobody should have that ever.

What other characters have safe 50/50s?

 

[RiBBz22]

If option selects like this can't be fixed I would say a good fix would be to remove the special cancel on B2 and make it -18 on block rather than -30. B2 should not be able to be safe and I play Raiden. -30 is really stupid though...

 

[Chaosphere]

If option selects like this can't be fixed I would say a good fix would be to remove the special cancel on B2 and make it -18 on block rather than -30. B2 should not be able to be safe and I play Raiden. -30 is really stupid though...

-30? Isn't it -65?

 

[MadPropz101]

Holy crap, well it's about time Raiden got some buffs!






















...said no one ever.

 

[RiBBz22]

-30? Isn't it -65?

Eh whatever -30 is pretty much the same thing as -65 to me anyways... but I don't check frame data because it isn't that important in fighting games.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

In a game based on mix-ups where many other characters have safe 50/50s, why would you not want your character to have one too?! If he didn't, he would be severely at a disadvantage. Unless you can convince people on every other character's board that they don't need safe mix-ups either.

Depends if you're a 5050 character or not, KLs mixup is throw

 

[Raidenwins]

No. A safe 50/50 is ridiculous. Nobody should have that ever.

What other characters have safe 50/50s?

I have to admit, up to this point I kept confusing all these concepts, "safe 50/50", "Options Select", "B2 special cancelable", and "regular 50/50". While reading more through all these posts though, I now understand (I think) that "Option Select" is what is causing the "safe 50/50", so they are in effect the same thing. Am I right about this? And if that's correct, yea "Option Select" needs to go, but apparently that's not possible, so the next best thing is make B2 non special cancelable, but do that for all characters (if any others have it too).

I thought people were arguing that Raiden shouldn't have "regular 50/50s", which made no sense to me, since that's one of the main aspects of MKX's fighting engine. My bad.

 

[buyacushun]

I have to admit, up to this point I kept confusing all these concepts, "safe 50/50", "Options Select", "B2 special cancelable", and "regular 50/50". While reading more through all these posts though, I now understand (I think) that "Option Select" is what is causing the "safe 50/50", so they are in effect the same thing. Am I right about this? And if that's correct, yea "Option Select" needs to go, but apparently that's not possible, so the next best thing is make B2 non special cancelable, but do that for all characters (if any others have it too).

I thought people were arguing that Raiden shouldn't have "regular 50/50s", which made no sense to me, since that's one of the main aspects of MKX's fighting engine. My bad.

Yeah there is an Option Select causing the safe 50/50. If NRS can't fix it then B2 needs to change in some way. I would like to make it 2 parts so we have b2 and b22. You'd have to commit to b22 or fish and be at -7 all the time. Might make him a bit ridiculous though . . . .

I figure if we really want a fix to OSes and we get NRS to make it top priority it would still have to come after the regular balance patching because they'd have to go through the entire movelist for all the characters and change properties of a few moves. That seems like a ton of work and i'd rather they try to make characters even first before that.

 

[BigMilk]

I swear every thread becomes "remove option select". Is this about the tools we just received or what needs to go? Its annoying searching for new information only to read the same thing every time.

 

[Tom Brady]

Yeah there is an Option Select causing the safe 50/50. If NRS can't fix it then B2 needs to change in some way. I would like to make it 2 parts so we have b2 and b22. You'd have to commit to b22 or fish and be at -7 all the time. Might make him a bit ridiculous though . . . .

I figure if we really want a fix to OSes and we get NRS to make it top priority it would still have to come after the regular balance patching because they'd have to go through the entire movelist for all the characters and change properties of a few moves. That seems like a ton of work and i'd rather they try to make characters even first before that.

Still wouldn't work because you could just b2 OS ex shocker. You would have to make b2 super unsafe so that its not safe on its own but also negative to prevent a b2/b22 mix up to prevent the punish

Only real answer is to remove the OS but the next best thing is to remove the special cancel on b2.

 

[brizzle]

Still wouldn't work because you could just b2 OS ex shocker. You would have to make b2 super unsafe so that its not safe on its own but also negative to prevent a b2/b22 mix up to prevent the punish

Only real answer is to remove the OS but the next best thing is to remove the special cancel on b2.

If they remove the special cancel then b2 should be less negative. Around -15/18. If we lose our safe 11% overhead combo, then our only other overhead option shouldn't be -30 or -63 or whatever the hell it is

 

[buyacushun]

Still wouldn't work because you could just b2 OS ex shocker. You would have to make b2 super unsafe so that its not safe on its own but also negative to prevent a b2/b22 mix up to prevent the punish

Only real answer is to remove the OS but the next best thing is to remove the special cancel on b2.

How would you OS the b2 if it was split? The input thing where you mash inputs to screw with the buffer? If that's the case then they would have to make b2 non cancel-able but make it less negative. -15 would be good. Can catch with things on block or whiff but you'd have to be on point. Really NRS is going to have to change a few move properties to make the game look good on a competitive level. People are gonna catch on quick if it looks like everyone is just confirming off of every mixup especially if those mixups are complete guesses.

 

[Kiko]

How would you OS the b2 if it was split? The input thing where you mash inputs to screw with the buffer? If that's the case then they would have to make b2 non cancel-able but make it less negative. -15 would be good. Can catch with things on block or whiff but you'd have to be on point. Really NRS is going to have to change a few move properties to make the game look good on a competitive level. People are gonna catch on quick if it looks like everyone is just confirming off of every mixup especially if those mixups are complete guesses.

Game would look to be heavily focused around footsies then. That match where foxy came back against Nivek seemed like good footsies > Raiden's openings; of course with the occasional zoning. Turns into a game of not ever getting opened up? lol

Raiden sort of feels like a raid boss version of Wonder Woman in Injustice with those normals.

 

[buyacushun]

Game would look to be heavily focused around footsies then. That match where foxy came back against Nivek seemed like good footsies > Raiden's openings; of course with the occasional zoning. Turns into a game of not ever getting opened up? lol

Raiden sort of feels like a raid boss version of Wonder Woman in Injustice with those normals.

Link to the match? And this game could definitely use a heavier focus on footsies. Even then with the way the system is it seems it would be very rushdown oriented like it is. Just more would play out in neutral. IDK to me it feels odd that even the slightest touch can be turned into crazy offensive momentum. That WW reference is lost on me. I know foxy played her but i stopped paying attention to competitive scene around batgirl release i think

 

[buyacushun]

I swear every thread becomes "remove option select". Is this about the tools we just received or what needs to go? Its annoying searching for new information only to read the same thing every time.

I can only talk about MoS but the changes gave us a better hit confirm-able low string and the new string off of f1 is good for pressure and orbs, but there is a gap between 2 and b2 in f12b2.

http://testyourmight.com/threads/mos-orb-trap-punishes.51211/#post-1791014 Has some stuff with the new changes.

Not much else to talk about really.

 

[BigMilk]

I can only talk about MoS but the changes gave us a better hit confirm-able low string and the new string off of f1 is good for pressure and orbs, but there is a gap between 2 and b2 in f12b2.

http://testyourmight.com/threads/mos-orb-trap-punishes.51211/#post-1791014 Has some stuff with the new changes.

Not much else to talk about really.

Thanks but I'm already aware is the changes. I was just expressing how annoying the forums have become over this one topic.

 

[THTB]

No. A safe 50/50 is ridiculous. Nobody should have that ever.

What other characters have safe 50/50s?

Reptile vs some characters.

But the damage is practically meaningless on the low lmaooooooooooooooooooooo.

 

[RM_NINfan101]

No. A safe 50/50 is ridiculous. Nobody should have that ever.

What other characters have safe 50/50s?

Definitely not the Yung Shinnok crew, we just have one hit confirm OS on F4 that's -7 anyway, so why not just let hellsparks fly and MB on block for +22 for a mixup or for pushback?

... Actually f4 is pretty hard to punish really. Huh. Well then. Then again it's nothing like B2 OS, which, I understand you guys are probably tired of talking about at this point. I kinda feel for Raiden mains in a sense, the OS stuff has been developed enough to a point where I think it's gonna stay and Blake put it best: They're in every fighting game to some extent due to how inputs are mapped. If they were to remove it it would have to be after all the DLC is out.

By then, we'll know.

Until then, I wouldn't nerf B2 being able to be special cancelled or his other normals. Raiden has enough nerfs.

 

[Raidenwins]

...Raiden has enough nerfs.

Amen to that! I am tired of coming to TYM one day, seeing a thread about patch notes, and going "Oh boy, here we go again. What did they do to my character this time?" (although last patch we got two much needed buffs, for which I am very grateful!) Plus, last two tournaments I have't seen any Raiden's in Top 8, at CEO not even in Top 16.

 

[delbuster]

i would make a video about how to deal with b2 but i dont have a setup hue hue hue

 

[rainuS]

All characters have os not only Raiden and such options are in many fighting games. B2xxshocker is just a drop in the ocean.