STRYKIE
Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
First of all, I know there have been plenty of 'patch wishlist' threads floating around TYM in light of recent hints of a patch on social media, some already concerning Sub-Zero and even some specifically for his Cryomancer variation, but I'd like to point out this has been an idea that has lingered in my mind for several months and have done a lot of research to theorize how this would come into play if the change was actually taken on board by NRS. So I'd appreciate if this was not merged with any other threads.
Now, there have been plenty of Chinese whispers concerning the 'role' each of Sub-Zero's variants are supposed to fulfill, but it has been generally agreed that Cryomancer is intended to be the most offensive of the three. The problem is that it generally doesn't initiate where it excels in offense very well.
That said, my opinion is not that Cryomancer is the worst variation in the game or any of that jazz, it's simply not a very good complimentary variation for Sub-Zero overall. My aim is not to get Cryo buffed to the moon, but just to have it serve it's purpose more logistically.
This could be improved through changes to Sub's base toolset, sure, but then comes the problem of if those changes would create inadvertent loopholes for his other variations. So ideally, you would do this through Cryomancer-exclusive tools. But how?
I think this can be done altogether with one change, and I'll cut to the chase.
*drumroll*
Allow Frost Hammer to be cancelled with a dash after the 14th frame of startup.
Now, I get that I'm not the first person to propose this change, but it seems everyone else that has, want it 'just because' without any real ideology. I'm confident that I'd be the first to explain the in-depth economics of it.
So why would this be a good idea for Cryomancer, and Sub-Zero in general?
- I believe Frost Hammer fits right in with all the other dash cancellable moves in the game currently; usually the move itself is relatively slow and has little application in the neutral game.
- It's fair to say that Grandmaster is established as Sub-Zero's premiere variation, however there are matchups that leave Sub with his limited base tool set as they have ways and means to ignore the metagame that the presence of Ice Clone brings. Cryomancer can come into play here as an alternative to initiate offense through.
- Most of his normals and strings provide good enough cancel advantage on block that he would be left at enough frame advantage to frame trap at least a F3. If anyone is curious about specific numbers I have done thorough testing to estimate to cancel advantage on block of most of Sub's normals and strings and can provide approximates if requested.
- It would provide him with meterless conversions that he sorely lacks in the other variations. Tired of having to take a chance on B33 midscreen and not even being serviceably rewarded for it unless you're up against a female? Would no longer be the case.
Unbreakable has this for the most part through EX Aura, why would this change function differently for Cryomancer?
- A common problem that Sub players using Unbreakable often lack the necessary meter and means to gain it to even initiate EX Aura. With this change, Cryomancer could be able to do this from a resource usually readily available, and one that he otherwise doesn't use much.
- Another problem is that you can't just magically EX Aura again while it's already activated. Stamina would be Cryomancer's only limit here and with max stamina available would have more than one chance to play with.
Possible concerns?
- For clarity's sake, I'd like to point out this would only apply to the meterless Frost Hammer. I am suggesting no changes to the EX version.
- If coding allows for it, the ability to cancel the hammer may have to be disabled after the Cold Blooded string specifically, even if a cancel wasn't already used in the same sequence.
Why?
The current cancel advantage of Cold Blooded would probably give him enough time to run cancel the hammer and combo into meterless ice ball, thus his restand and damage potential is likely to spiral out of control from some conversions. The current cancel advantage has already been precisely distributed to prevent him from being able to link a meterless ice ball after Cold Blooded. The only other ways to regulate this would be to decrease Cold Blooded's cancel advantage which would hinder it's ability to link into EX hammer or EX iceball, or only let Cryomancer cancel out of the hammer so late to the point where the entire buff would be largely pointless.
- F4's cancel advantage in conjunction with this proposed buff.
Now, anyone who's informed about Sub's F4 properties and the buff I am proposing should know that F4 into a Hammer Run Cancel would be heavily plus on block, which for a rep or two isn't unbearable. The grey area is that Sub does seem to have a relatively fast recovering forward dash and he may also be left at slight advantage simply by just dash cancelling out of F4 without even having to run, which also consumes significantly less stamina. I wouldn't want to give him a 10 rep block trap on some characters if they lacked the necessary resources to escape, but if it turned out that it was no more than +4, if he was left at advantage at all, then it shouldn't be a problem.
- The hammer may actually need to be cancellable on the 13th frame?
I won't go into too much detail as to what I was looking at, but I remember labbing some specific tech with Hellfire Scorpion concerning his own run cancels and I noticed there appears to be a frame to transition a dash into a run, and then a frame for your following button to register. Ultimately this thread isn't about Hellfire Scorpion and I may be partially wrong about that information but I thought I'd bring that up in case such mechanics clashes with the ideas I'm shooting for with the buff for Cryomancer.
In conclusion:
I get that this is a lengthy, in-depth thread for an idea that may never ever materialize, but I want to be as clear as I can be for everyone interested on what I'm suggesting, and why. I won't be tagging any NRS personnel, it's entirely possible that they have already decided on Cryomancer's future in the upcoming patch, and hell, it may even be something even better than what I'm suggesting. If there's any stock they can take from this thread and they are still looking for ideas, they will find it and take what they will from it.
It's also probably not the most imaginative buff you could give the variation, but as of now, I feel it's the best chance of giving it a place in the future of the game. And on top of that, Ferra/Torr was probably the last character we expected to be given a cancel in any capacity, but alas, it happened.
Also, I'm not a Cryomancer main, or a Sub main for that matter, so if you have any criticisms of my ideas or want to point out other potential issues that may arise that I have not elaborated on or taken into consideration, feel free to bring them to my attention.
Now, there have been plenty of Chinese whispers concerning the 'role' each of Sub-Zero's variants are supposed to fulfill, but it has been generally agreed that Cryomancer is intended to be the most offensive of the three. The problem is that it generally doesn't initiate where it excels in offense very well.
That said, my opinion is not that Cryomancer is the worst variation in the game or any of that jazz, it's simply not a very good complimentary variation for Sub-Zero overall. My aim is not to get Cryo buffed to the moon, but just to have it serve it's purpose more logistically.
This could be improved through changes to Sub's base toolset, sure, but then comes the problem of if those changes would create inadvertent loopholes for his other variations. So ideally, you would do this through Cryomancer-exclusive tools. But how?
I think this can be done altogether with one change, and I'll cut to the chase.
*drumroll*
Allow Frost Hammer to be cancelled with a dash after the 14th frame of startup.
Now, I get that I'm not the first person to propose this change, but it seems everyone else that has, want it 'just because' without any real ideology. I'm confident that I'd be the first to explain the in-depth economics of it.
So why would this be a good idea for Cryomancer, and Sub-Zero in general?
- I believe Frost Hammer fits right in with all the other dash cancellable moves in the game currently; usually the move itself is relatively slow and has little application in the neutral game.
- It's fair to say that Grandmaster is established as Sub-Zero's premiere variation, however there are matchups that leave Sub with his limited base tool set as they have ways and means to ignore the metagame that the presence of Ice Clone brings. Cryomancer can come into play here as an alternative to initiate offense through.
- Most of his normals and strings provide good enough cancel advantage on block that he would be left at enough frame advantage to frame trap at least a F3. If anyone is curious about specific numbers I have done thorough testing to estimate to cancel advantage on block of most of Sub's normals and strings and can provide approximates if requested.
- It would provide him with meterless conversions that he sorely lacks in the other variations. Tired of having to take a chance on B33 midscreen and not even being serviceably rewarded for it unless you're up against a female? Would no longer be the case.
Unbreakable has this for the most part through EX Aura, why would this change function differently for Cryomancer?
- A common problem that Sub players using Unbreakable often lack the necessary meter and means to gain it to even initiate EX Aura. With this change, Cryomancer could be able to do this from a resource usually readily available, and one that he otherwise doesn't use much.
- Another problem is that you can't just magically EX Aura again while it's already activated. Stamina would be Cryomancer's only limit here and with max stamina available would have more than one chance to play with.
Possible concerns?
- For clarity's sake, I'd like to point out this would only apply to the meterless Frost Hammer. I am suggesting no changes to the EX version.
- If coding allows for it, the ability to cancel the hammer may have to be disabled after the Cold Blooded string specifically, even if a cancel wasn't already used in the same sequence.
Why?
The current cancel advantage of Cold Blooded would probably give him enough time to run cancel the hammer and combo into meterless ice ball, thus his restand and damage potential is likely to spiral out of control from some conversions. The current cancel advantage has already been precisely distributed to prevent him from being able to link a meterless ice ball after Cold Blooded. The only other ways to regulate this would be to decrease Cold Blooded's cancel advantage which would hinder it's ability to link into EX hammer or EX iceball, or only let Cryomancer cancel out of the hammer so late to the point where the entire buff would be largely pointless.
- F4's cancel advantage in conjunction with this proposed buff.
Now, anyone who's informed about Sub's F4 properties and the buff I am proposing should know that F4 into a Hammer Run Cancel would be heavily plus on block, which for a rep or two isn't unbearable. The grey area is that Sub does seem to have a relatively fast recovering forward dash and he may also be left at slight advantage simply by just dash cancelling out of F4 without even having to run, which also consumes significantly less stamina. I wouldn't want to give him a 10 rep block trap on some characters if they lacked the necessary resources to escape, but if it turned out that it was no more than +4, if he was left at advantage at all, then it shouldn't be a problem.
- The hammer may actually need to be cancellable on the 13th frame?
I won't go into too much detail as to what I was looking at, but I remember labbing some specific tech with Hellfire Scorpion concerning his own run cancels and I noticed there appears to be a frame to transition a dash into a run, and then a frame for your following button to register. Ultimately this thread isn't about Hellfire Scorpion and I may be partially wrong about that information but I thought I'd bring that up in case such mechanics clashes with the ideas I'm shooting for with the buff for Cryomancer.
In conclusion:
I get that this is a lengthy, in-depth thread for an idea that may never ever materialize, but I want to be as clear as I can be for everyone interested on what I'm suggesting, and why. I won't be tagging any NRS personnel, it's entirely possible that they have already decided on Cryomancer's future in the upcoming patch, and hell, it may even be something even better than what I'm suggesting. If there's any stock they can take from this thread and they are still looking for ideas, they will find it and take what they will from it.
It's also probably not the most imaginative buff you could give the variation, but as of now, I feel it's the best chance of giving it a place in the future of the game. And on top of that, Ferra/Torr was probably the last character we expected to be given a cancel in any capacity, but alas, it happened.
Also, I'm not a Cryomancer main, or a Sub main for that matter, so if you have any criticisms of my ideas or want to point out other potential issues that may arise that I have not elaborated on or taken into consideration, feel free to bring them to my attention.
