2D Fighter with Endless Stages?

[RomeoBravoDelta]

Tekken and Soul Calibur V both include a stage or two without walls or ring outs and instead just scroll endlessly. I'm curious if what you all think of the idea of a endless stage in a 2D fighter; how (or if) it would work and how it would effect the balance of the game.

Personally, I think it would be at least an interesting idea, though it would disproportionately benefit zoners and more footsies heavy characters unless there are universal movement options available to compensate.

(Also, I forgot about the "View Results" button on this site when I made the poll. I'm too used to other sites.)

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Tekken and Soul Calibur V both include a stage or two without walls or ring outs and instead just scroll endlessly. I'm curious if what you all think of the idea of a endless stage in a 2D fighter; how (or if) it would work and how it would effect the balance of the game.

Zoning would dominate.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Characters that depend on the corner would be disadvantaged and zoning/keepaway will greatly benefit. Also that's 2 less sets of combos to learn (corner and corner carry)

 

[Compbros]

Zoning would dominate.

Seriously, those stages would probably be banned.

 

[RomeoBravoDelta]

Zoning would dominate.

If the game wasn't properly made with them in mind yeah, and even then it would still benefit them greatly over other playstyles. The idea came from watching Hokuto No Ken matches where the stages are about the size of a postage stamp and every combo pretty much turns into a corner kill combo in a few hits and wondering how it would be if they were given more (or infinite) room to maneuver.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Seriously, those stages would probably be banned.

Just imagine having to play Freddy on an endless stage...or even Kenshi.

 

[Zoidberg747]

I can't even understand how it would work.

But even if it could work, I would vote for No. Eliminating the corner game in a 2D game is gamebreaking and ridiculous.

 

[Justice]

DoA V has one too. In a 2D fighter I could see a lot of timeouts as someone would get the life lead and then keep backing away while checking with whatever projectile they have at their disposal. Potential for a lot of "1 hit and run" matches.

 

[RomeoBravoDelta]

Just imagine having to play Freddy on an endless stage...or even Kenshi.

To be fair, they're dumb no matter where you fight them.

I stand by that it would be at least interesting to see provided the game is made taking them into consideration, but I agree that in the end they would be banned from competitive play because they offer nothing but advantages to zoners and disadvantages to rushdown-ers.

 

[STRYKIE]

It's not a terrible idea, but we would really need to see it in practice because of how conditioned we are fundamentally to play with the awareness of corners, on top of the mechanics itself. Tekken 4 for example handled the transition from infinite scrolling to wallstun terribly.

In games like UMK3 where the general meta encourages rushdown, corners are somewhat a hinderance outside of karajab infinite setups and pure damage, which is more to do with Midway's half-assed attempt to prevent corner damage in the first place but you get the gist.

Also lol at the dismissive character analogies, once upon a time Kenshi was average and Noob Saibot was the best zoner in MK9. We all saw how that turned out.

 

[Konqrr]

It's awesome in a game like Tekken... but remember KI? That endless stage was endlessly retarded with some matchups being 10-0 because of it.

 

[Duck Nation]

Tekken didn't have sidestep till 3.

The SFEX games had infinite stages, though there was a sort of vague soft corner as I remember it. Been too long since I've played one.

 

[Gurpwnder]

It would certainly make for an interesting training mode option, since it would allow people to practice their midscreen combos.

 

[Rampage254]

Hell no.

 

[The Borax Kid]

As long as you could activate an Injustice stage transition mechanic on any part of an endless stage to reach a walled one, I would be cool with it.

 

[Error]

Kabal IAGB to infinity :tonyt

 

[chores]

raidens ex lightning bolt would crash the game

 

[miloPKL]

my thoughts on this are the same as the interactable-less tourny. theres is nothing to lose by seeing this come to fruition. only learning. only innovation. theres no reason to vote no. one game with no corners will not erase every single other fighter from existence. the two styles can co exist. i can think of no logicial reason for anyone scientifically minded to vote no, especially since you are not investing in this nor should my enjoyment of it be a concern to you. its like me voting no against against mks breaker system because i just dont personally like it (i do like it) but id never vote no. no i dont want to have the opportunity for fighting games to progress? get outta here!

i can imagine in this game zoning would be really fun, also navigating zoning. forward dashes or walk speeds must trump retreat speeds so charas with short range can close distance on an ever retreating zoner. no corners is a great interesting idea.

 

[Zoidberg747]

my thoughts on this are the same as the interactable-less tourny. theres is nothing to lose by seeing this come to fruition. only learning. only innovation. theres no reason to vote no. one game with no corners will not erase every single other fighter from existence. the two styles can co exist. i can think of no logicial reason for anyone scientifically minded to vote no, especially since you are not investing in this nor should my enjoyment of it be a concern to you. its like me voting no against against mks breaker system because i just dont personally like it (i do like it) but id never vote no. no i dont want to have the opportunity for fighting games to progress? get outta here!

i can imagine in this game zoning would be really fun, also navigating zoning. forward dashes or walk speeds must trump retreat speeds so charas with short range can close distance on an ever retreating zoner. no corners is a great interesting idea.

Well what if NRS just happens to waltz in this thread and make this come to fruition? Then this certainly affects me as I am going to be playing their next game.

As for why I voted no, it's because this isn't Progress, it is more akin to a step backward. The corner and corner game are a crucial part to any 2D fighter. People think it is easy to corner your opponent, but it takes a spectacular amount of spacing and planning to get them to the corner and keep them there. Removing corners removes combo versatility first and foremost. Most 2D Fgs have corner carry as one of the highest priorities for a BnB combo. Take away that corner carry, and why would you try to carry your opponent on an endless stage.

It also takes away zoning(Zoning and keepaway are NOT the same thing). In Injustice I will try to push my opponent into a corner. I can do this at midscreen or even fullscreen. On an endless stage, what is the point? I can try to keep them close to me, but I have no way to keep them in.

If we go by your examples, having forward dashes being longer and faster than backdashes would RUIN keepaway. The whole point of keepaway is to force your opponent to very carefully make their way in. If their dashes are going to be bigger than yours, they will be able to close the gap extremely quickly if they know what they are doing.

Also you have to realize that this would be even WORSE if there was one endless stage and many regular stages. Keepaway characters would be especially screwed as they would be cornered in no time. If you didn't balance the game around endless stages the keepaway characters would dominate as they have nothing to stop them from just retreating(this is the main purpose of the corner). So in order for this to work you would have to balance the entire game around the endless stages, and make characters either rushdown or a jack of all trades(This limits character diversity).

I agree with your mentality of letting FGs progress, but just because something is different does not mean it is "progress".

 

[miloPKL]

snip

i do think you are not thinking outside of the box. because there are no corners, does not decrease combo versatility. a game with no corners might have a lot of cool and interesting 'behind opponent' attacks such as Urien[?] SF3, the ability to set up a wall with a behind projectile, it doesnt need to move, it can be stationary, it may do damage and disappear, it may not do damage, it may not disappear. this is one out of the box idea that may or may not work. there are all kinds of interesting new ideas that are available to the scenarios you have mentioned.

however, it is not my place to come up with solutions to your problems. that is the problem of whoever makes this game. it is just my place to make the demand.

 

[d3v]

MvC2 Storm/Sent/* with infinite stages would be the best shit ever. Just fly to the top corner of the screen, keep calling Sent drones assist third assist purely optional as a backup to Sent since your opponent is never going to touch you ever.

 

[Qwark28]

wants a 2d endless stage fighter

lists 3d games as examples where zoning doesnt exist

no, itd be broken, imagine kabal or cyborg in one of these stages

 

[d3v]

The problem with this is that, unlike 3D fighters, 2D fighters have characters that allow you to deal damage at full screen distance. Infinite stages will give these characters an advantage since they can now simply just runaway the whole day. Of course, you could simply remove full screen zoning and projectiles, but that would be a violation of one of the things that makes 2D fighters what they are (fireballs).