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Who Do You Think Is Top 5 In EO Beta?

Jolt

Uprise
Mileena has a rediculous throw game, block isn't an issue, and the fact she has a true mid that nobody's talking about that can whiff punish every low profile move in the game, pretty sweet luxury to have.
You can't throw after you've already YOLOed, mate. I'm just horsing around though. The 6 frame d1 and 8f d3 are what made Mileena perfect in my mind. Or at least as good as she can fairly get. I'm still not sure I would personally put her at top 5, but if you guys do I accept that you're all welcome to opinions.

@YOMI REO

In previous listings, you (or rather YOMI) seemed to only include the strongest variation and not consider whether a different variation could cover bad MUs. Is this something that will change in the future with YOMI tier lists, or is this just you thinking about it as an individual? I'm sure it's just your personal opinion, but I'm curious for future tier lists if variations are actually going to be considered when placing a character (kinda like PPJ's list where a strong variation could move you up, but a weak one couldn't hold you back)
 

REO

Undead
Well, for starters you said she can frame trap off many normal's, when in fact it whiffs a ton mid screen. That is my point. The hitbox isn't great. It's fantastic in the corner, but it has weird whiffing issues. I'm not sure if Jason has whiff problems, but I could imagine any character with that buff would be huge...if it wasn't wonky.
I had literally no issue frame trapping people afterwards with D+1 after F+1, F+3, standing 1, 1,2, etc. This option for Mileena literally did not exist last patch.
 

TotteryManx

cr. HP Master
I had literally no issue frame trapping people afterwards with D+1 after F+1, F+3, standing 1, 1,2, etc.
I've had d1 whiff against characters randomly after 1, or 12. You should lab it more. Not trying to sound like a know it all, but give it a go against multiple characters.
 

REO

Undead
I've had d1 whiff against characters randomly after 1, or 12. You should lab it more. Not trying to sound like a know it all, but give it a go against multiple characters.
That's literally most D+1s in the game... Many D+1s in this game have poor hitboxes and can be low profiled easily. This isn't something exclusive to Mileena. The only difference is Mileena has a 6F D+1 now and many don't.
 

Jolt

Uprise
I've had d1 whiff against characters randomly after 1, or 12. You should lab it more. Not trying to sound like a know it all, but give it a go against multiple characters.
To be entirely fair, we can just use d3 instead in most cases.

d1 might whiff, just use d3 if you're skeptical
 

TotteryManx

cr. HP Master
This is exactly the problem. People need to be spoon fed or they're hand help.

REO and Foxy are telling you, you don't need to see it.
Your post does not contribute to the conversation. We are a community. We can all learn from each other. Maybe they have picked up on something I haven't? Maybe I can say something that will give them a idea? You can't just disregard a community. This is how we learn.
 

Take$$$

gotta take it to make it
Her D+1 is one of the best in the game now. And so what if it can get low profiled? Welcome to most of the D+1s in the game. Mileena's D+3 and roll do that to so many D+1s. Her D+1 gets her out of pressure up close and hits any character who is blocking or not blocking in it's range. It's time to admit her D+1 is amazing and MANY characters wish they had a 6F poke.
I'll trade the new armor for a 6f d1 :c
 

TotteryManx

cr. HP Master
That's literally most D+1s in the game... Many D+1s in this game have poor hitboxes and can be low profiled easily. This isn't something exclusive to Mileena. The only difference is Mileena has a 6F D+1 now and many don't.
I have 100% had this happen with other characters, but Mileena is atrocious. You would be better off with d3, unless in the corner. It's hard to have a game discussion with you due to your status. People are telling me to stfu because you're REO lol. How can one learn this way?
 

TotteryManx

cr. HP Master
To be entirely fair, we can just use d3 instead in most cases.

d1 might whiff, just use d3 if you're skeptical
True. I just responded with just that, but I can't have a conversation with certain players without people saying, "it's REO f*ck off."
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Your post does not contribute to the conversation. We are a community. We can all learn from each other. Maybe they have picked up on something I haven't? Maybe I can say something that will give them a idea? You can't just disregard a community. This is how we learn.
They've been telling you, but you've just been sticking your fingers in your ears and saying nope.
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
This is exactly the problem. People need to be spoon fed or they're hand help.

REO and Foxy are telling you, you don't need to see it.
We have played the character for months. Sorry we are not top player dickriders like most people in this site, we can have our own opinion, top player or not he can be wrong, just like we can be wrong.
REO is one of my favorite guys in the community so this is not anything against him nor Foxy anyway.
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
We have played the character for months. Sorry we are not top player dickriders like most people in this site, we can have our own opinion, top player or not he can be wrong, just like we can be wrong.
REO is one of my favorite guys in the community so this is not anything against him nor Foxy anyway.
This is where I think people get confused about the situation.

More and more players are starting to listen to the fact that Mileena could very well be a strong character, especially post patch. It isn't that people are just "dick riding" as people like to throw around lately, it's that as a character she is receiving a lot more attention from players that can take characters and run with them. The same way SonicFox randomly picked up Kitana and won ESL and EVO with her while most of the Kitana players were saying that she still struggled post patch and wasn't that strong.

People are inclined to take the opinions of established strong players over those that mainly exist on forums. Not to sound elitist, that's my last intention, but just because people have played a character for x amount of time doesn't necessarily mean they are able or have thought of making the character shine in the areas they needed to. I have known players in the past that know everything they could possibly know about a character, but just aren't that good at implementing it in game, meaning the tiny in depth stuff that may have been there would have gone amiss.

For example, Foxy was trying to explain to everyone a few months back that Mileena has the tools to be super safe and effective that way, where as the main complaints from Mileena players on TYM was that she was way too unsafe and risky, mainly because she was played as a yolo 50/50 character.

Let's just acknowledge that maybe things aren't set in stone yet. Characters are evolving.
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
We have played the character for months. Sorry we are not top player dickriders like most people in this site, we can have our own opinion, top player or not he can be wrong, just like we can be wrong.
REO is one of my favorite guys in the community so this is not anything against him nor Foxy anyway.
Yeah, and the stuff you are saying is like you're still stuck in April '15.

This beta Milenna is amazing, how can people not see this?
 

Error

DF2+R2
Sometimes the question isn't "How did this character change?" but "How did the other characters around them change?"

Characters like Sub-Zero and D'vorah who were already amazing get inadvertently buffed because everyone above them got watered down.
Yeah people are acting like she exists in a vacuum.

Sorry, I just realized it was me lol. I meant to say August.
Mileena players spreading drama subconsciously smh
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
This is where I think people get confused about the situation.

More and more players are starting to listen to the fact that Mileena could very well be a strong character, especially post patch. It isn't that people are just "dick riding" as people like to throw around lately, it's that as a character she is receiving a lot more attention from players that can take characters and run with them. The same way SonicFox randomly picked up Kitana and won ESL and EVO with her while most of the Kitana players were saying that she still struggled post patch and wasn't that strong.

People are inclined to take the opinions of established strong players over those that mainly exist on forums. Not to sound elitist, that's my last intention, but just because people have played a character for x amount of time doesn't necessarily mean they are able or have thought of making the character shine in the areas they needed to. I have known players in the past that know everything they could possibly know about a character, but just aren't that good at implementing it in game, meaning the tiny in depth stuff that may have been there would have gone amiss.

For example, Foxy was trying to explain to everyone a few months back that Mileena has the tools to be super safe and effective that way, where as the main complaints from Mileena players on TYM was that she was way too unsafe and risky, mainly because she was played as a yolo 50/50 character.

Let's just acknowledge that maybe things aren't set in stone yet. Characters are evolving.
I respect opinions when they have a good argument. But if you ask people right now why they think Mileena is too good they will be like "OH FOXY WRECKED ME WITH HER" or "B12" while they probably haven't even labbed the MU at all. And yeah, I know people usually take top player's word more because they know their stuff, but top players can be wrong too. I remember when REO said Jason was very good, and well.. See how it turned out to be, being a top player doesn't make you some kind of god or anything.
Also I brought up the dickriding argument because Phosferax was pretty much telling us to shut up and listen to top players.
 

REO

Undead
True. I just responded with just that, but I can't have a conversation with certain players without people saying, "it's REO f*ck off."
I don't really care who I'm arguing with. It could be Daigo or INCORUTPIBLE, I'm still gonna share my stance on something either way.

Anyway, you guys are making it seem like Mileena's D+1 is a 50/50 on if it's going to work or not. It's seriously not that bad and at least the hitbox isn't as atrocious as Predator's D+1 that hits the opponent's shoulders.

Obviously her D+1 gets low profiled by many D+4s, or attacks that cause the opponent's hurtbox to shrink, like many other D+1s in the game. Some D+1s may have a slightly better hitbox than others, but in the end they usually all get low profiled by the same things. The

Mileena's D+1 is definitely one of the best D+1s for getting out of pressure up close and I've never felt like "wow, I can't use my D+1 in this match up" or "wow, Mileena's D+1 isn't hitting anyone it sucks" in the Beta.
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
I respect opinions when they have a good argument. But if you ask people right now why they think Mileena is too good thwy will be like "OH FOXY WRECKED ME WITH HER" or "B12" while they probably haven't even labbed the MU at all. And yeah, I know people usually take top player's word more because they know their stuff, but top players can be wrong too. I remember when REO said Jason was very good, and well.. See how it turned out to be, being a top player doesn't make you some kind of god or anything.
Also I brought up the dickriding argument because Phosferax was pretty much telling us to shut up and listen to top players.
I do not talk about characters I don't know about. I've played against @TheGabStandard since launch.

I know how to deal with b12, but people are overlooking the fact that you have to DEAL with the move. The string is easily one of the best in the game, and the buffs to Milenna's sais and pokes are all I've seen the players asking for, and now that she has them it's 'nah she's not different' when it has completely enhanced her already strong gameplay.
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
I do not talk about characters I don't know about. I've played against @TheGabStandard since launch.

I know how to deal with b12, but people are overlooking the fact that you have to DEAL with the move. The string is easily one of the best in the game, and the buffs to Milenna's sais and pokes are all I've seen the players asking for, and now that she has them it's 'nah she's not different' when it has completely enhanced her already strong gameplay.
Wait what? Who ever said she wasn't strong with these changes? We used to consider her low tier and now we are all saying she could be potential high tier (at least myself) or upper mid tier at worst.
 

TotteryManx

cr. HP Master
I don't really care who I'm arguing with. It could be Daigo or INCORUTPIBLE, I'm still gonna share my stance on something either way.

Anyway, you guys are making it seem like Mileena's D+1 is a 50/50 on if it's going to work or not. It's seriously not that bad and at least the hitbox isn't as atrocious as Predator's D+1 that hits the opponent's shoulders.

Obviously her D+1 gets low profiled by many D+4s, or attacks that cause the opponent's hurtbox to shrink, like many other D+1s in the game. Some D+1s may have a slightly better hitbox than others, but in the end they usually all get low profiled by the same things. The

Mileena's D+1 is definitely one of the best D+1s for getting out of pressure up close and I've never felt like "wow, I can't use my D+1 in this match up" or "wow, Mileena's D+1 isn't hitting anyone it sucks" in the Beta.
I'm not just talking about being low profiled. 21 leaves you at advantage on block. Sometimes if I follow up with d1 it whiffs, even if my opponent does not press a button. It just breezes by. I want to make something clear. I'm not saying Mileena is bad. In fact, she is great, but there are several posters on this site talking as if you have no options against her. If a great player picks up a good character he/she is going to make her look very strong. People were saying the same thing about your Jason at one point. That doesn't mean the character is OP...it means you're being outplayed and I will stand by that.
 

Infamous

Banned
This is where I think people get confused about the situation.

More and more players are starting to listen to the fact that Mileena could very well be a strong character, especially post patch. It isn't that people are just "dick riding" as people like to throw around lately, it's that as a character she is receiving a lot more attention from players that can take characters and run with them. The same way SonicFox randomly picked up Kitana and won ESL and EVO with her while most of the Kitana players were saying that she still struggled post patch and wasn't that strong.

People are inclined to take the opinions of established strong players over those that mainly exist on forums. Not to sound elitist, that's my last intention, but just because people have played a character for x amount of time doesn't necessarily mean they are able or have thought of making the character shine in the areas they needed to. I have known players in the past that know everything they could possibly know about a character, but just aren't that good at implementing it in game, meaning the tiny in depth stuff that may have been there would have gone amiss.

For example, Foxy was trying to explain to everyone a few months back that Mileena has the tools to be super safe and effective that way, where as the main complaints from Mileena players on TYM was that she was way too unsafe and risky, mainly because she was played as a yolo 50/50 character.

Let's just acknowledge that maybe things aren't set in stone yet. Characters are evolving.
God yes. Thank you.

On an early page I was semi kidding when I played Devils Advocate and joked "Mileena community on blast". Truth in the matter is, I respect players like Foxy and Reo because they are smart and wildly talented and when I hear REO on stream explain his thoughts on Mileena being top and Foxy backing those claims up, I take note lol.

As for users that jump to "this is dick riding at it's best" ( @xKhaoTik ), no no, some of us just respect the opinions of Reo and Foxy.

Just like @Phosferrax basically said, it's time to sit up and listen when the big boys are talking.
 

TotteryManx

cr. HP Master
This is where I think people get confused about the situation.

More and more players are starting to listen to the fact that Mileena could very well be a strong character, especially post patch. It isn't that people are just "dick riding" as people like to throw around lately, it's that as a character she is receiving a lot more attention from players that can take characters and run with them. The same way SonicFox randomly picked up Kitana and won ESL and EVO with her while most of the Kitana players were saying that she still struggled post patch and wasn't that strong.

People are inclined to take the opinions of established strong players over those that mainly exist on forums. Not to sound elitist, that's my last intention, but just because people have played a character for x amount of time doesn't necessarily mean they are able or have thought of making the character shine in the areas they needed to. I have known players in the past that know everything they could possibly know about a character, but just aren't that good at implementing it in game, meaning the tiny in depth stuff that may have been there would have gone amiss.

For example, Foxy was trying to explain to everyone a few months back that Mileena has the tools to be super safe and effective that way, where as the main complaints from Mileena players on TYM was that she was way too unsafe and risky, mainly because she was played as a yolo 50/50 character.

Let's just acknowledge that maybe things aren't set in stone yet. Characters are evolving.
This is essentially my argument, but if you look around this site you will see people claiming they have no options against Mileena and that she is OP. That is not the case. If you put a good character in a great players hands of course things will happen, but does that make her OP?