What's new

Match-up Discussion Smoke Match-Up Discussion Thread (2012 Post-EVO Update)

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
LBSH, Smoke / Kung Lao matchup is 4-6. Smoke cannot get away from him, but can punish Kung Lao hard for a mistake.
Kung Lao's insane air mobility completely cripples all of Smoke's special moves. One of the only answer for a dive kick heavy Kung Lao is to go to the air and try to beat it with tele-punch but this is way too risky for the damage you get most of the time because on whiff KL can just spin it.

It is an extremely bad guessing game to continue pressure with Smoke since all of his good strings put you at zero frames and he has to at least respect the spin. Sure, you can bait it and hold block but that more than likely puts you into a block string 21212 (or whatever one he wants to do) that will build KL insane meter and lead into a teleport mixup, which because of Smoke's larger hitbox can end up leading into another blockstring and more meter.

Sure Smoke punishes hard, but chances are with the way KL builds meter that he will have enough to break.

IMO KL is tied with Kabal for Smoke's most difficult MU.

Here is a snip from KT Smith's guide which I still believe applies to the current MU:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kung Lao: Large Advantage KL

One of if not the worst MU Smoke has for several reasons.

One, you can't run away from KL. Whiffed dive kick and teleports chase smoke drift faster than you can do them.
Two, he has heavy air mix ups. A jump in > top screen teleport is super fucking hard to punish unless you really commit to it on prediction.
Three, spin. Spin blows up all cross up pressure for full launches for free and makes it risky to even poke him to get out of pressure.
And worst of all, four, all of his jabs jail you in crouch block, so it's effortless for KL to put you in pressure.

I don't have to mention that you should never ever jump at KL right? Good.

In order to beat Kung Lao you HAVE to punish his shit. His normals are straight up better than yours in every way. In order to keep from being pressured (because his standing 2 has such retarded range), you have to naked crouch and d4 a lot as he's charging in at you on the ground. This is risky because he can f33 xx spin you for full combo. You really have to guess what he's going to do because if you try to block check his f3 you're easily jailed into pressure. His pressure is ridiculous, too. You're likely eat a fuck-ton of chip and nickel & dime damage from his overhead/low mix up. You MUST take risks to get out of his pressure and it's super fucking easy for him
to put you there.

Thankfully, after the nerf, low hat is -14 on block. This is enough of a window to punish with 21 xx SB but is risky; if you're off by 2 frames and you get blocked you're getting launched by spin.

Against Teleport, you want to d3 > d1. 99% of the time the KL player will teleport > 3. Use your d3 to dodge it and you can knock him out of the air for a combo. This is really tight because of Smoke's huge hit box and you're going to get blown up if you mistime it.

Like was mentioned above, you HAVE to punish his spin and dive kick in order to win so your entire strategy has to revolve around baiting one, the other, or both. if he's a fan of whiffing dive kicks, when he jumps dash forward and block. Sometimes KL players like to get risky with dive kicks from up close. That shit is deceptively fast and is very hard to block on reaction since you have so much more to worry about once he goes airborne.

To get baited spins, you want to fish for knockdowns (sweep) and then get in his face when he's on the ground. Hopefully he'll carelessly spin and you'll get a punish. You're probably going to need to get 2 launchers in a row in order to do any damage because KL builds meter like no other, especially since his pressure is so easy to get started.

The best punisher for spin is still dash in > 21 xx SB.

If you can't bait Kung Lao into blocked spins or dive kicks, you're probably going to lose.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

Gh0sty

ばかみたいに無料
Float just outside of TKP range and smoke bomb the shit out of him as a general rule. What specifically are you having issues with?


KILLA_xGHOST
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Guys, I'm having big trouble against Ermac. What are some good strategies to use?
Generally, when you start a match against Ermac you want to stay just outside of TK Push range and pepper Ermac with smoke bombs (adjust your positioning as needed to stay out of that range). When you are inside of TK push range you have to respect that move and the lift (because obviously it can take half of your life). Block them and advance forward, unless they are dumb enough to throw out a random lift which you can punish on block with whatever you want. Once you are in your normals and pokes are way better so use that to your advantage how you normally would in any matchup. At close quarters Ermac is going to try to stagger his strings and mix things up with his low starting option. Make sure you know how to block those strings and when you can counter them.
 
Reactions: Tan

9_Lives

Noob
Hey guys, I'm not a Smoke player, but I've taken this to a few people now, and no one has gotten back to me yet. How do I fight Smoke while playing as Sektor? I don't feel comfortable fighting him from full screen; he shakes my missiles and punishes my iatup's with smoke bomb (is that normal? Should I just not be using this move against him? I lost a lot of meter trying to land a move I thought was somewhat safe.). But I feel weird fighting him up close as well. I see it is read as 6-4 by both Smoke and Sektors, which means I can survive it at the very least. How should I play this matchup?
 
Hey guys, I'm not a Smoke player, but I've taken this to a few people now, and no one has gotten back to me yet. How do I fight Smoke while playing as Sektor? I don't feel comfortable fighting him from full screen; he shakes my missiles and punishes my iatup's with smoke bomb (is that normal? Should I just not be using this move against him? I lost a lot of meter trying to land a move I thought was somewhat safe.). But I feel weird fighting him up close as well. I see it is read as 6-4 by both Smoke and Sektors, which means I can survive it at the very least. How should I play this matchup?
iaTU is your friend. If you're getting SB'd out of startup on that move, you're being way too predictable with when you do it, doing it too slow, or any other number of things. Smoke bomb should only ever beat it on a random toss a few frames before you perform your iaTU. If you're getting beat out by it a lot, re-evaluate your timing. Sektor does a great job playing footsies with smoke, sit outside of his b2 distance and be ready to throw out a dash in f2 (i think? that looooong advancing normal sektor has) to keep smoke in check from doing anything funny. Generally you want to use upmissiles in the MU when you don't think he's going to throw a smoke bomb. If he starts shaking them, start shooting them in front of smoke. You can punish him for whiffing his shake, and then he's going to be scared to shake. Once he's scared to shake you get a free normal upmissile into pressure. Smoke also has a LOT of trouble pressuring sektor with that 6f jab of his. Smoke risks 40% every time he throws b23 -- you punish it naked and canceled into SB for full combo every time (-8 and -9 respectively). Sektor only needs meter in the MU to EXTU mid combo here and there, so you're free to break smoke's combos pretty readily, especially if it's a smoke player that cannot reset consistently.

Basically just play footsies and when you get him blocking a lot, leg lift mixups are great. leg lift~dash~grab has extremely long range for some reason; use this to your advantage if smoke's blocking. The biggest thing to be wary of in this MU when pressuring smoke is d1sb, so long as you can block that on reaction (not easy) or a read, you punish smoke every time. He's going to start mashing d3 which you can punish.

For a more gimmicky approach, sektor can reliably stay in the air vs. smoke. You can jump and crossup a lot and smoke can't do a lot. You can feign jump-ins to bait AAs and cancel to EXTU which leaves you safe at worst and getting a combo at best.

Meter is key in this MU, so long as you can sit on a bar at just about all times you're golden.

If you're on Xbox we can play briefly this weekend sometime. I'll give you the basic idea of what you need to be doing
 

9_Lives

Noob
Alas, I am on the PS3. Thank you for the tidbit, though. I'll try to utilize this stuff when I play the guy next time.
 
I've never met RiBBz22, but I'm down with playing him if he's willing to spare the time.
as far as I know, ribbz plays just about everyone. And I'm sure he'd record the matches for you too.

Oh, and another shenanigan for you. After an EX upmissile if smoke is shake happy, you can EX upmissile, wait, iatu and try to catch him shaking before the missile hits him. I dropped a round to a sektor who did that to me in tournament when i was up by like 30% health to his 5%, and I couldn't break it. Felt bad man
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
I've never met RiBBz22, but I'm down with playing him if he's willing to spare the time.
Ya, we can play some matches soon. I haven't been on in about a week because real life has been cray cray, but this weekend I should have some time. Sektor gets blown up by Smoke full screen. IMO, Sektor needs to be in Smoke's face pressuring him with his 6 frame jab and checking him with normals like b3 that can lead to big damage. F2 is good at footsie distance, and you need to make the Smoke player fear and respect the IATP outside of footsie range. Also, if the Smoke player is shake happy, you can always try to mix up your missiles with a IATP after, but keep in mind this is super high risk/high reward and favors Smoke.
 

9_Lives

Noob
Alright Ribbz, I'll try to be on this weekend. I work in at least the morning, so I'll be on in the afternoon. My PSN is PSYCHOTIC-STATIO. I'll add you if you don't get to it by then. Thanks a bunch!
 

unVINCEable

As you think, so shall you become. -Bruce Lee-
I honestly think the Kabal match-up is like 4-6 instead of 3-7...that just seems to low for me. But as with all match-ups, it's about making great reads.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Alright Ribbz, I'll try to be on this weekend. I work in at least the morning, so I'll be on in the afternoon. My PSN is PSYCHOTIC-STATIO. I'll add you if you don't get to it by then. Thanks a bunch!
Sorry we are missing each other I have been really busy lately and haven't been playing MK as much :/. But I am usually on a lot more so hopefully my schedule will clear up soon.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
I honestly think the Kabal match-up is like 4-6 instead of 3-7...that just seems to low for me. But as with all match-ups, it's about making great reads.
Please explain why you think it is 4-6. IMO this is probably his worst MU and I have given a ton of reasons why.
 

unVINCEable

As you think, so shall you become. -Bruce Lee-
Please explain why you think it is 4-6. IMO this is probably his worst MU and I have given a ton of reasons why.
Honestly i can't give you without a doubt reasons, mainly because i don't get to play offline much, but I'll try to explain. If you're gonna say that Kabal with all of his NDC bullcrap and Johnny Cage with his Block strings aren't the same then it's foolish to think that JC MU is 6-4 and not Kabals.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Honestly i can't give you without a doubt reasons, mainly because i don't get to play offline much, but I'll try to explain. If you're gonna say that Kabal with all of his NDC bullcrap and Johnny Cage with his Block strings aren't the same then it's foolish to think that JC MU is 6-4 and not Kabals.
Smoke has really good tools to frustrate Cage and keep him out. Once Cage gets in Smoke has to look for ways to get out and it isn't easy. Kabal pressure is slightly easier to get out of...however with ND he can be in your face whenever he wants to and you have nothing you can put on the screen to check it.
 

9_Lives

Noob
Sorry we are missing each other I have been really busy lately and haven't been playing MK as much :/. But I am usually on a lot more so hopefully my schedule will clear up soon.
Don't sweat it man, I'm pretty much in the same boat. I only need to get a couple of hours in with a Smoke player (or two) before March 23rd. That's Comicade VI, a local in Minneapolis, where I was eliminated from both brackets by the same Smoke player. :/
 

Gh0sty

ばかみたいに無料
Don't sweat it man, I'm pretty much in the same boat. I only need to get a couple of hours in with a Smoke player (or two) before March 23rd. That's Comicade VI, a local in Minneapolis, where I was eliminated from both brackets by the same Smoke player. :/
I'm on PSN all the time. HMU if you want - ghostface777o0o . I'm no RIBBZ though...


KILLA_xGHOST
 

unVINCEable

As you think, so shall you become. -Bruce Lee-
Smoke has really good tools to frustrate Cage and keep him out. Once Cage gets in Smoke has to look for ways to get out and it isn't easy. Kabal pressure is slightly easier to get out of...however with ND he can be in your face whenever he wants to and you have nothing you can put on the screen to check it.
The only think i can think of is D4 right into a teleport, but i need to test it out more...