General/Other - Cassie Cage MKXL Cassie Cage General Discussion Thread

[Compbros]

I think that's the point of the changes cast-wide. Which characters maintain significant dirt so far? I'm legitimately asking, because I don't know. But I can't think of anyone off the top of my head. Lao got smacked and Cassie got toned down.

I agree that no armor and the 7f change combined were unnecessary, I would have personally gone for 7f, armored, but unsafe. I think 7f just because I think regular flipkick should have been 7f from the beginning and I don't think that speeding it up ONE frame for the EX version would have been sensible lol



I agree that Spec Ops seems to have been hurt the most out of all of this, but I think that is a conscious NRS design decision at this point. I think they realized that 3 variations is just difficult to manage, as ultimately there will be one that is the worst. The other 2 typically have enough utility and options between them to cover MUs. In SOME cases (particular characters), all 3 are already fine and I think NRS thinks it's ok for those characters to be the EXCEPTION and not the rule.

So basically: Expect 2 viable variations per character that should hopefully offer different utility and playstyles and the 3rd one can be a wild card.

From my understanding, the following variations did not get variation specific changes that they may have needed. I already fully accept that I may be wrong as I don't play every character, nor do I browse every forum religiously:

Dualist
Spec Ops
Necromancer
Ravenous
High Tech
Ancestral

and the list goes on. It's up for debate HOW MUCH or WHAT these variations may have needed to hold a candle to the others at tournament level, or even to cover different matchups. But the fact remains that players of these characters often feel that the above variations offer the least compared to the other 2 variations.

Maybe we should think of them as "Casual" variations. Variations you use because they're fun or you like them. Just maybe not something you'd rely on in tournament. Maybe they can still win with EXTREMELY solid fundamentals because the "base character" is fine, etc. This varies for each variation obviously, but you get the point.

I'd love to have 3 100% tournament level viable variations for each character, but I don't think that will happen. It's AT BEST the 3rd variation will cover a few very specific MUs or even counter a certain play style/make up for shortcomings. At this point, Ravenous for people who struggle to do slightly more complicated combos or conversions. Also usable against players who constantly low block if you struggle to open people up. If you're a tournament level player, you likely don't NEED that but maybe it'll help some time.

In the case of Cassie, you get Hollywood for instant air guns and invincibility on wakeup now (with nut punch), with Brawler you get armor and tick throws (that also work on hit!) You pull Spec Ops out when you think people won't know the matchup

I have no choice, I love Spec Ops and will not drop it.

 

[Jolt]

I have no choice, I love Spec Ops and will not drop it.

Man, I 100% feel you. My main training partner loves Spec Ops (and fortunately for him, Brawler too). He's never been a big Hollywood guy. Just didn't suit him, but he started using it.

Just gotta grind your tech out and remember to play as if people don't know the MU (while taking minimal risk just in case) until they prove otherwise.

Good luck. It's hard being a variation 3 boy. I won't be surprised if Special Forces Sonya (my favorite variation IN THE GAME) doesn't get adjusted, but I'll be happy if it does

 

[Laos_boy]

Does american way still have cool down? I mean they could give armor to that.

 

[buyacushun]

I think that's the point of the changes cast-wide. Which characters maintain significant dirt so far? I'm legitimately asking, because I don't know. But I can't think of anyone off the top of my head. Lao got smacked and Cassie got toned down.

I don't know. I know scorp gained some tanya like risky dirt and loss some reliable pressure stuff. Thing is we don't know what we'll get when they finally release nor do we know if this the last patch. That's a scary thought when it comes to nrs games lol.

yes. this is a good point I always bring up as well. cassie received some unnecessary changes. the problem is that they are targeting certain characters due to the high amount of complaints. but there are other characters that have some dirty shit and they are getting buffed because they are somehow flying under everyone's radar. point being. if they are going to remove the dirt, it needs to be removed from every character in the cast like you said.

Not that Jax needs severe changes but when the BIG patch hit and I saw jax had like one change that's when I knew to be scared of him. Dude for the shit to compete and is getting no changes.

 

[N-Zalo]

Is the gap in b2,1,2,d2+4 between the upward move and the overhead or between the horizontal hit and the first hit of d2+4?? Did the cancel advantage change or the startup of the second hit of d2+4 got slower??
If cancel advantage changed it's a HUGE nerf to spec ops because that was the only string that let you cast rockets out of pressure...
Has anyone tested the "starterXXflip run 2,1,2" consistency? Is the same as it was or it got better (pre 9/1 patch)?

 

[Evincar2001]

Is the gap in b2,1,2,d2+4 between the upward move and the overhead or between the horizontal hit and the first hit of d2+4?? Did the cancel advantage change or the startup of the second hit of d2+4 got slower??
If cancel advantage changed it's a HUGE nerf to spec ops because that was the only string that let you cast rockets out of pressure...
Has anyone tested the "starterXXflip run 2,1,2" consistency? Is the same as it was or it got better (pre 9/1 patch)?

As I understand it, the gap is between the 1st and 2nd hit of d2+4 (between the mid and the overhead). If this is the case, I don't see this as THAT huge of a nerf, since she can still hit confirm from b212, and it's still safe. She just doesn't have a 100% safe string that jails into EX guns on block any longer (well, at least not this one), and that's actually a good thing.

 

[Sugarwatermixlegit]

As a brawler player, thinking about it, I think I will live. But the no armor on the EX flipkick is the thing that really sticks out to me. That does not seem like a necessary nerf.

 

[XxDark_]

As a brawler player, thinking about it, I think I will live. But the no armor on the EX flipkick is the thing that really sticks out to me. That does not seem like a necessary nerf.

its a very unnecessary nerf

 

[N-Zalo]

As I understand it, the gap is between the 1st and 2nd hit of d2+4 (between the mid and the overhead). If this is the case, I don't see this as THAT huge of a nerf, since she can still hit confirm from b212, and it's still safe. She just doesn't have a 100% safe string that jails into EX guns on block any longer (well, at least not this one), and that's actually a good thing.

B2,1,2,d1+2 was the only semi-uninterruptible way to call missiles up-close, if that gap is bigger people can react to it, leading to interruption of setups and meter wasting, disabling the only pressure tool spec ops had.

 

[Evincar2001]

B2,1,2,d1+2 was the only semi-uninterruptible way to call missiles up-close, if that gap is bigger people can react to it, leading to interruption of setups and meter wasting, disabling the only pressure tool spec ops had.

Then it's just more unnecessary nerfs for Spec Ops, then, which isn't a huge surprise. I've never spent much time with the variation, as I've only played Brawler (original main) and Hollywood (soon to be shelved).

Still, can't you b212~missile as an option?

 

[Compbros]

I'm convinced NRS just hates me.

 

[B. Shazzy]

They'll fix her by March. In the meantime, I'll have SFV.

 

[N-Zalo]

Then it's just more unnecessary nerfs for Spec Ops, then, which isn't a huge surprise. I've never spent much time with the variation, as I've only played Brawler (original main) and Hollywood (soon to be shelved).

Still, can't you b212~missile as an option?

The time between startup of rocket and the end of blockstun is larger and your opponent isn't afraid of the delayed overhead hit. You lose frame advantage and psychological conditioning
... I guess they will no longer fear the last hit as now has the gap...

 

[KingKhrystopher]

Can someone explain all that really happened to her? I was just hoping to pick her up, but is she now low tier or something.

 

[XxDark_]

Can someone explain all that really happened to her? I was just hoping to pick her up, but is she now low tier or something.

no armor on ex flip kick and is now 7f start up. removed invincibility on ex nut punch and has push back on hit. gap in b212d1+2 if I remember correctly.

 

[KingKhrystopher]

no armor on ex flip kick and is now 7f start up. removed invincibility on ex nut punch and has push back on hit. gap in b212d1+2 if I remember correctly.

I could care less about invincibility. No one, absolutely no one, deserved or needs invincibility. The only thing I condone is armor. Good thing they removed it.

 

[Evincar2001]

Can someone explain all that really happened to her? I was just hoping to pick her up, but is she now low tier or something.

Both of Brawler's command grabs now have an EX option with one hit of armor each.

 

[B. Shazzy]

Can someone explain all that really happened to her? I was just hoping to pick her up, but is she now low tier or something.

She's not low tier. Cassie has been taking Ls every patch until this exclusive buff for Brawler. That shit adds up and you have this mess of a character. You'll see the salty posters who don't main her talking about how she's still so amazing yet A. nobody played variations outside of Hollywood and B. Nobody who mained (like 2 people in tourney?) Cassie could achieve anything with her until even the best nrs player picked her up but that still didn't cut it.

Hollywood could've been toned down much more appropriately without burying Spec-ops and Brawler is still going nowhere. That's the problem here, she's just a worse character - all take and no give with her balancing.

 

[RetroPhysic]

She's not low tier. Cassie has been taking Ls every patch until this exclusive buff for Brawler. You'll see the salty posters who don't main her talking about how she's still so amazing yet A. nobody played variations outside of Hollywood and B. Nobody who mained (like 2 people in tourney?) Cassie could achieve anything with her until even the best nrs player picked her up but that still didn't cut it.

Hollywood could've been toned down much more appropriately without burying Spec-ops and Brawler is still going nowhwere. That's the problem here, she's just a worse character - all take and no give with her balancing.

EXACTLY THANK U

 

[Jer]

http://pastebin.com/VPL4ieY9

I'm sure I speak for all of us with my pastebin.

 

[XxDark_]

I could care less about invincibility. No one, absolutely no one, deserved or needs invincibility. The only thing I condone is armor. Good thing they removed it.

yea I agree with the invincibility being removed.

 

[BigMilk]

As I understand it, the gap is between the 1st and 2nd hit of d2+4 (between the mid and the overhead). If this is the case, I don't see this as THAT huge of a nerf, since she can still hit confirm from b212, and it's still safe. She just doesn't have a 100% safe string that jails into EX guns on block any longer (well, at least not this one), and that's actually a good thing.

She still has a couple strings and normals that jail into ex guns, which is why it was pointless. She just built the most meter from that particular string.

 

[Saionide]

Brawler is the best variation for sure due to the ex flip kick nerf. I don't agree with the ex flip kick losing armor because of how strong of an anti air it was, if they were going to hit it, it should've just been more unsafe. Brawler gets similar reward now anti airing with ex tackle because it still deals roughly the same as the ex flip kick punish... outside of the corner. American way should've been made into an armor move to offset the loss of ex flip kick.

It wasn't just cassie that was hit though, I've heard of worse from quan, tanya, and lao.

 

[Evincar2001]

Brawler is the best variation for sure due to the ex flip kick nerf. I don't agree with the ex flip kick losing armor because of how strong of an anti air it was, if they were going to hit it, it should've just been more unsafe. Brawler gets similar reward now anti airing with ex tackle because it still deals roughly the same as the ex flip kick punish... outside of the corner. American way should've been made into an armor move to offset the loss of ex flip kick.

It wasn't just cassie that was hit though, I've heard of worse from quan, tanya, and lao.

Haven't heard anything about QC or Tanya yet, but KL definitely took a beating. EX spin is now +7 instead of +12 (easier to armor through any follow-up) and his ji2 hitbox from air-to-ground has been nerfed significantly, though it's still a very good air-to-air.

 

[xXxNasHxXx]

No armour on power flip sucks. I hope it gets changed when the final patch comes out.