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TYM Kommunity Project: An Open Letter to NRS Concerning Netplay

Oriphus

Noob
..

not trying to flame, or start a war, but check this...
Buddy from Europe bought me USF4 last night, after we watched Evo together. (im in the US)
d/led... installed.. and we did some matches.

We had a 1-2 bar connection.
That 1-2 bar connection felt FLAWLESS! (no hitching around or any of that)
Now, im not a programmer and i have no clue as to how MKX systems work with the latency and all that. Im sure there are differences/compromises.. but I was literally blown away by how smooth and precise that "shite" connection was.. I literally couldn't tell a difference between playing offline.

This was on PC/Steam...

I love the MK community. Ive always been an MK fan over Capcom.. but ill be damned if that net code didn't make MKX online seem absolutely useless. Even a 4bar connect in MKX isnt that smooth/precise.

Just a fan who wants to play some semi legit MKX online. =(

Edit:
im by no means boss mode. or even good, at SF4, but i honestly couldn't tell a difference.
I couldn't tell a fn difference... and that makes me sad.
 
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buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
..
Realizes how good online can actually be.
SF still has it's flaws and it's definitely better to play offline for some of the harder links in that game. But there are several now considered top players who got most of their training from online. I think two are wolfkrone and smug. You can pretty much pick any current fighter and have better time than playing online in MKx. I'm sure even people who say that never had a problem online still find other games far better. Part of the reason why currently I already have no plans of buying Injustice 2.
 

Oriphus

Noob
I honestly want to know what the goal of this is.
Im sure NRS is aware of the online issues. (surely) I still feel like voicing our experience could better persuade them to get things done.
Im not going to stop playing MKX due to online issues. But evident from SF4, the online doesn't have to be this way.

I know some of you seem to have no issues (im not sure why... crazy low ping or something..) but a majority are getting ridiculous delay in matches that simply doesn't need to be there. If it CAN be fixed, why not fix it?

and vs cost to get it done, imo, its VERY worth it. Hoping NRS is seeing it the same way.

edit:
then again maybe its a publisher thing... or maybe, due to the technicalities of MKX's systems, its not so easy. I dunno.. but its a problem none the less and would benefit the community greatly if it were remedied.
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
Injustice 2 is going to have a massive audience with Batman v Superman dropping.

Let's just hope the mainstream nature of it combined with Steam refunds might have some sort of effect when the netcode comes out basura as usual
 

Oriphus

Noob
[
SF still has it's flaws and it's definitely better to play offline for some of the harder links in that game.
oh no doubt. The timing in that game is crazy precise. (been trying to get some Cammy combos down) Like i said, im no where near beast mode in SF4 so the little intricacies i wouldn't know. But, as far as simply pressing buttons and the moves coming out, blocking.. "simple" shit. It was spot on. You cant even pull off a block in MKX and have it register on time in a lot of matches. Quan Chi for instance.. even on a good day.

It seems uncalled for.. and i was playing with a dude on the other side of the fn world. I know the techs different, but really? Is there no way to fix this?

Edit
And before you say "well, you can DEAL with it, just learn to compensate." Ya, you can "deal" with it.. but we shouldn't have to "deal" with it. Im not saying we're entitled and NRS owes us anything. They've got a great thing going on, great mechanics, its a damn fine game. But, WHY is the online play so bad?? Considering the work and brilliance put into this game.. There is seemingly no reason for the online play to be so bad. It just don't get it...

but im not a coder.. =/
 
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Oriphus

Noob
I take it that mkx runs at 60?
yup 60

It's the way the online player prediction/ latency compensation works in MKX. Not the actual "pipe" from the input device to the game. I believe someone in this thread explained it in detail.. the difference in methods.

60fps should be fine. KI runs @ 90fps but displays @ 60fps. This reduces input latency. (were talking input device to game here) Basically all games have input latency to some extent, ever played KillZone2 on PS3? Giving it more rendering headway gives you opportunities to reduce the input latency. (actualy input to game) AFAIK this has very little to do with the netcode and "input latency" were experiencing in MKX online.

==============
Basically, from the controller to the game, in MKX, is perfectly fine. Its the online latency thats causing the issues, not the rendering pipeline.
 
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MASTER

Noob
yup 60

It's the way the online player prediction/ latency compensation works in MKX. Not the actual "pipe" from the input device to the game. I believe someone in this thread explained it in detail.. the difference in methods.

60fps should be fine. KI runs @ 90fps but displays @ 60fps. This reduces input latency. (were talking input device to game here) Basically all games have input latency to some extent
Thx for explaining. I'm on pc and suffer from a lot of input latency. Usually plY shooters but I got this bc I'm a predator fan. I can't connect combos online. so I look like a total chump. Lol. So I guess this would be the extent then. Sounds like a tough issue. When win10 comes out, I'm going to try ki.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
Im sure NRS is aware of the online issues. (surely) I still feel like voicing our experience could better persuade them to get things done.
If its a support group for battered netplayers, call it a support group. The delusion that this (or chanting, or surveys, or petitions or fire bombing ed boon's house) is telling them something they don't already know is absurd. You want to help out with the XBone hang problem, file a trouble ticket with MS or with WB. Use the official channels and start a proper movement. Rallying the "nrs netcode sucks" troops on a forum, on youtube, on twitter is a useless gesture. 100% useless. Its just more fuel on the fire started ten years ago.
I know some of you seem to have no issues (im not sure why... crazy low ping or something..) but a majority are getting ridiculous delay in matches that simply doesn't need to be there. If it CAN be fixed, why not fix it?
Well, majority is facetious. MKX has millions of owners, and thousands of players. You can't prove a majority on Xbone are affected. You can't prove a majority on this forum are. You can't even prove a majority in this thread. XBone isn't even the majority install base for MKX right now. Regardless, this all harkens to the insane rhetoric that because it hasn't been fixed NRS doesn't care or isn't trying. Fixes take time.

In summation; You wanna help? Log a trouble ticket, then go get a book from the library, and if its really that fucking bad, never buy a WB product again. Maybe when their next game doesn't crack a million sales in its first day, maybe they'll consider top tier netplay.
 

Ra Helios

Omnipotent God-like Selina Kyle Player
This is a much better approach than trying to do some type of chant at EVO and risk flat-out embarrassing our already mocked scene. It's akin to a bunch of spoiled little shits throwing a temper tantrum to get what they want. Don't get me wrong, however. We deserve to have a much better netcode because we ARE paying customers, but a chant isn't the way to go.

Also, I really don't think NRS would appreciate something like this. Imagine being called out at the biggest tournament of the year. I wouldn't want them to be like "Fuck the TYM community for this."
they deserve it!!!! FULL TIME!!!!!
 
edit: guys, just a good picture and its ready to go

@9.95

edit: i need answers for the red stuff guys. can anyone make a good visual design for the letter and spread the petition?

From: The NRS community
To: Netherrealm Studios/Warner Bros. Games


An open letter concerning Mortal Kombat X netplay

Dear Netherrealm Studios and Warner Bros. Games employees!

First and foremost, thank you for taking the time to consider our letter and request for better netplay/netcode in Mortal Kombat X. We are faithful gamers who specifically prefer to play NRS games. That said, we appreciate all the work that NRS has done with Mortal Kombat (2011) and Injustice, including the step back to 2D in MK9, the great training mode in injustice and the support of the tournament scene for MKX, as well as balance fixes throughout these games. These things have been achieved mostly in cooperation with the community, so we hope our collected feedback on the netplay will also help to solve this matter. We hope you will recognize and understand our frustration with the current state of the online experience, which is widely considered to not reach the quality of other current or older fighting games.
  1. Online issues:
  • Connecting and matchmaking: Some people can’t connect to online at all, some only on rare occasions. The overall experience has a feeling of 5 frames of lag at least. The quality varies for users without any relation to their connection speed. Some people claim to have a worse online experience than in MK9 or injustice.
  • Gameplay: Anything that requires strict timing or quick reacting often happens to not work consistently or at all. This includes: Counterpokes; block on reaction; block of quick overhead/low sequences; block of multiple quick pokes; combo links; punishing blocked attacks; frametraps; footsies; wakeup attacks; throw techs; anti-air-attacks; jump-in punches; reversals. Also Inputs can be “eaten up” by lag. For example: Ducking, then back 2 comes out as down 2; a string cancel like 33 ~ down forward 4 comes out as 3 forward 4. All of these things are an essential part of the gameplay and are massively hindered by the delay.
  1. Follow-up issues:
  • Many players already have dropped the game because of the frustrating online experience. Aside from limiting the fun, they don’t see the laggy environment as proper training ground for offline events. This discourages especially people with no offline scene close by to attend bigger offline events at all. For many the netplay is also not consistent enough to become competitive online.
  • The credibility of the ESL events suffers from the above point, for players as well as viewers.
  • People opted not to buy the DLC because of their poor online experience
  • The online Faction mode has been advertised as big draw for MKX but the online gameplay doesn't make it worthwhile to participate
  • NRS’ image is suffering from the whole issue. People are unsatisfied that there is no communication about the problem or even admittance of it. Some are under the impression that NRS/WB do not invest enough resources into delivering the best possible experience for their paying customers.
  1. Examples of good online experiences:
  • The community has put together a list of other (fighting) games, which provide a better online experiance than MKX. We hope that NRS will use this list of games as a benchmark.
  • Killer Instinct is usually considered the best online experience nowadays, making the game feel like offline for connections all around the world.
  • Other examples of games with good netplay are: Skullgirls, Soul Calibur V, Tekken Tag Tournament 2, Virtua Fighter 5 FS, Blazblue and Ultra Street Fighter 4. Two non-fighting games that have particularly good netcode are Driveclub and Titanfall. All of these are widely considered ahead of Mortal Kombat X, even though they are older and some of them had a lower budget.
  1. Ideas for improvement:
  • It is the majority opinion throughout the community, that rollback netcode delivers better netplay than input delay due to the immediate reaction to your inputs on your screen. The possible choppyness of the picture can be avoided by a self-adjustable number of delay frames. People report they have the best results playing on rollback with 2-4 frames of delay setting.
  • We know that changing network code after launch is a difficult task however other games have proven that it is not impossible and that it is much appreciated by the player base which can play an important part in this process. If we take DICE for example they have acknowledged netplay issues in Battlefield 4 and are working on new solutions right now. They do constant testing together with the community to improve their game including the online experience and server performance.
  • To improve the current experience without touching the netcode, the game could show ping and WIFI-connections
  • The next NRS game should have an online beta
The NRS community hopes that you hear our collective voice about the netplay issue and respond to us as soon as possible. The current state harms both NRS and the players, the online as well as the offline community. We are looking forward to improvement, so we can enjoy our favourite games just as well online and strengthen the competitive NRS scene.

Regards, the NRS community
 
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ZeZe

The smart stuff!
Very nicely written, gj.
It will not hurt to make it a petition. The worst case scenario is it will be ignored. But the text speaks true.
PS:
I've only noticed one typo: "People are unstatisfied that there is no communication about the problem".
 
Very nicely written, gj.
It will not hurt to make it a petition. The worst case scenario is it will be ignored. But the text speaks true.
PS:
I've only noticed one typo: "People are unstatisfied that there is no communication about the problem".
thx, whats the right typing?
 

BillStickers

Do not touch me again.
I promise you that the tremor petition had nothing to do with his inclusion. NRS also did a "poll" for who the next injustice character should be that was proven to be fake (people provided answers, but NRS knew who the next DLC would be the whole time).

Their "community decisions" are always marketing bullshit. Pay no mind to them.
 
I promise you that the tremor petition had nothing to do with his inclusion. NRS also did a "poll" for who the next injustice character should be that was proven to be fake (people provided answers, but NRS knew who the next DLC would be the whole time).

Their "community decisions" are always marketing bullshit. Pay no mind to them.
but it had a ridiculous amount of votes, thats what we need too
 
I would advise taking out the bf4 example since its another genre with a different situation with a solution that can not be adopted to mkx otherwise well writen
maybe offtopic but I am also disapointed that there is no real playermatching or do you think that some one who is lvl 8 and 0/12 has a chance against some one who is 72 and 1200/300 ?