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Nerf/buffs and what's really needed

cambros22

Stand Back I'm a Doctor!!!!!!
Someone disagreeing with you doesn't make them wrong. You clearly have issues with opposition and constructive discussion. Also, my characters are constantly getting normalized. Guess what? I don't cry about it at all; I deal with. Hellfire Scorpion is my main. Do some research before throwing out bogus claims. I literally just picked up Flame Fist Liu as I had already been playing Dragon's Fire which is still my second main.

You can't just suggest nerfs and expect everyone to accept them as the word of God. Get over your ego and get a grip.

So sick of everyone standing on a pedestal around here.
I main erron black. the guy has been nerfed in every patch. from what ive seen in the threads I discuss in, players talk of alternatives for his gameplay. Thats what makes you the better player. Finding more ways to tackle the obstacles before you. Thanks for pointing out what people need to hear.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Fucking hell man give us a break. One of our strings already just got crippled by armchair critic peer pressure.

If anything this should be buffed anyway, it gets screwed over by disjointed hitboxes as it is.
So you really think Paulo listened to everyone on The Internet?
 

cambros22

Stand Back I'm a Doctor!!!!!!
The silliest shit Ive seen are threads with players asking for buffs on a variation because it doesnt look appealing and is under represented.
Now tell me there arent issues with that.
 
I main erron black. the guy has been nerfed in every patch. from what ive seen in the threads I discuss in, players talk of alternatives for his gameplay. Thats what makes you the better player. Finding more ways to tackle the obstacles before you. Thanks for pointing out what people need to hear.
This was exactly what the Scorpion community did. All of the real true Scorpion mains are constantly looking for new tech and new ways to get around thing as opposed to begging for nerfs for other characters.
 

ando1184

Noob
Nah dude, @Ares_Supreme got a point. I was with you up till you posted the LK changes. Don't get me wrong, the changes you mentioned seem sensible at first glance all things considered and you aren't asking for a massive nerf, and I won't argue that it's wrong. However, there is a difference between wanting to change things that have been in the game since day one on all platforms, and changing things that have been in the game for one day, on one platform. The reason I won't argue that it's wrong is because I don't know, and neither do you. We have no idea what this will do for Liu Kang, so let's just let it ride for a little bit longer, and you might have a case. Flame Fist is still probably only on the level of Dragon Fire now, it's not even a clean cut best variation, and it's not like DF Lui Kang is making waves in any competitive scene. It's ok for for characters to have things they do remarkably better than other characters, it's not as though LK doesn't do a lot of things remarkably worse than a lot of characters to make up for it.
The combo I listed in the OP allows liu kang to gain a bar and a half on block, this combo has no gaps unless execution error, and ends with a move that's only -2 on block. I'm not going to post anything on hear without being physically exposed to it myself because I know things can be over/under exaggerated at times. But because he deals good chip, gains a bar and a half, and does it all safely is a little much. On top of that this combo does 35 on hit and has variations of it in the corner that leads to 50%+ combos for 1 bar. Merging the meter gain is the least exaggerated suggestion for something like that. But I will agree , ok let's let it fly for now and see how it pans out and if it's revealed that it isn't as strong as it seems at the moment then I'll remove it from OP. I'm just taking things as I go man, like I said I want a balanced game above all else.
 

cambros22

Stand Back I'm a Doctor!!!!!!
This was exactly what the Scorpion community did. All of the real true Scorpion mains are constantly looking for new tech and new ways to get around thing as opposed to begging for nerfs for other characters.
I will say this Sonya Demolition, ohh lawd...its going to be fun
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
The combo I listed in the OP allows liu kang to gain a bar and a half on block, this combo has no gaps unless execution error, and ends with a move that's only -2 on block. I'm not going to post anything on hear without being physically exposed to it myself because I know things can be over/under exaggerated at times. But because he deals good chip, gains a bar and a half, and does it all safely is a little much. On top of that this combo does 35 on hit and has variations of it in the corner that leads to 50%+ combos for 1 bar. Merging the meter gain is the least exaggerated suggestion for something like that. But I will agree , ok let's let it fly for now and see how it pans out and if it's revealed that it isn't as strong as it seems at the moment then I'll remove it from OP. I'm just taking things as I go man, like I said I want a balanced game above all else.
No doubt, fair enough and you might just be on point with the LK changes. But maybe you aren't. The character has a lot of things holding him back so far, but like you said thats a lot of strengths rolled in one too so maybe they do need to tone down that meter building shit.

Or maybe this variation will just sit at mid tier with it regardless and be balanced now.

All I'm saying is, we need a little more than NOTHING except theorycrafting to go off here, this is something that I think could really go either way
 

Wigy

There it is...
UNIVERSAL ANTI AIR BUFFS

Playing against jumpy sonyas kotals scorpions and tanya's is a fucking nightmare, D2 should as least trade, its unbelievable. Kotal gets a 3/4s un-antiairable JIP. All u can do is trip guard, and in this game there is like no window to punish since you magnet to the floor.

I know this isn't a massive point but its completely ruining online cause its basically trampoline kombat.

Also get rid of shortcuts for interactables. So sick of trying to do cassies b212 d+12 and using a jump interactable for a full punish from a teleporting scorpion. seems like a specific situation but this has happened around 15 times to me now.
 
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Wigy

There it is...
I main erron black. the guy has been nerfed in every patch. from what ive seen in the threads I discuss in, players talk of alternatives for his gameplay. Thats what makes you the better player. Finding more ways to tackle the obstacles before you. Thanks for pointing out what people need to hear.
To be fair his last nerf was more of a fix, there is no way that d3 was supposed to string on hit. It made him a better grappler than jason.
 

ando1184

Noob
Someone disagreeing with you doesn't make them wrong. You clearly have issues with opposition and constructive discussion. Also, my characters are constantly getting normalized. Guess what? I don't cry about it at all; I deal with. Hellfire Scorpion is my main. Do some research before throwing out bogus claims. I literally just picked up Flame Fist Liu as I had already been playing Dragon's Fire which is still my second main.

You can't just suggest nerfs and expect everyone to accept them as the word of God. Get over your ego and get a grip.

So sick of everyone standing on a pedestal around here.
Look I've been on the bottom tiered side of every NRS game man. I know there will be oppositions with these things because I'm a human being and know we all have different point of views. I'm sharing my point of view because of personal experience, and idk about you but I have some really good training partners that I get these opinions from. I'm not getting upset nor think I'm on a pedastal either. I just know what I have been exposed to and have seen. And that is that flame aura has an invisible hitbox towards the end of it and I think it shouldn't be there. You also don't appear to understand what meant by calling it an armored move, so let me explain. I'm standing inside sweep distance and go for d4, scorpion activates aura. Instead of being poked out of it, I get lit up then comboed. With any other character they would have armored through the d4. So yes it acts as a meterless armored move if used defensively.
 
Look I've been on the bottom tiered side of every NRS game man. I know there will be oppositions with these things because I'm a human being and know we all have different point of views. I'm sharing my point of view because of personal experience, and idk about you but I have some really good training partners that I get these opinions from. I'm not getting upset nor think I'm on a pedastal either. I just know what I have been exposed to and have seen. And that is that flame aura has an invisible hitbox towards the end of it and I think it shouldn't be there. You also don't appear to understand what meant by calling it an armored move, so let me explain. I'm standing inside sweep distance and go for d4, scorpion activates aura. Instead of being poked out of it, I get lit up then comboed. With any other character they would have armored through the d4. So yes it acts as a meterless armored move if used defensively.
Fair enough.
 

cambros22

Stand Back I'm a Doctor!!!!!!
To be fair his last nerf was more of a fix, there is no way that d3 was supposed to string on hit. It made him a better grappler than jason.
yeah I know. All of his nerfs and fixes are justified. Im more making a point about community attitude but you know that already.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
So you really think Paulo listened to everyone on The Internet?
All things considered, given the forum discussion and how much actually did correlate to the patch, I don't think anyone can give a straight "no" without hesitation to that question.

Besides, if the blockstring in Hellfire was legitimately unintentional, I'm sure it would've been "fixed" in an earlier patch. I'm not too concerned about it other than what it indirectly nerfed, it just changes the metagame for Hellfire's pressure.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
All things considered, given the forum discussion and how much actually did correlate to the patch, I don't think anyone can give a straight "no" without hesitation to that question.

Besides, if the blockstring in Hellfire was legitimately unintentional, I'm sure it would've been "fixed" in an earlier patch. I'm not too concerned about it other than what it indirectly nerfed, it just changes the metagame for Hellfire's pressure.
I still maintain that we have little affect on patch changes.

Otherwise, wouldn't Sub Zero's EX Clone bug be fixed?
 
No buffs or nerfs could fix anything in this game. The core of the game is fucking broke. I'm just waiting for people to accept it. This is NOT a game that can be taken seriously whatsoever. I couldn't even think of something that could fix all the fucked up shit besides scrapping it and starting new. How this actually got released is beyond me but Boon is laughing his way to the bank.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Hell if I know. Tom Brady probably talks about Sub Zero's problems in his local grocery store, nevermind just TYM.
Careful, Tom will accuse you of making fun of him and wish death on you in real life on his next stream.
 

cambros22

Stand Back I'm a Doctor!!!!!!
No buffs or nerfs could fix anything in this game. The core of the game is fucking broke. I'm just waiting for people to accept it. This is NOT a game that can be taken seriously whatsoever. I couldn't even think of something that could fix all the fucked up shit besides scrapping it and starting new. How this actually got released is beyond me but Boon is laughing his way to the bank.
Sounds like MKX isnt the game for you. Relax, there arw other Fighting games to play.
 
Mostly all good imo.

upball not being a reliable AA is dumb.

Throw teching should be 1+3. no question about it.

Option selects apparently are tied to block stun or something. That's what I've been told anyway. Agree that moves intended to be unsafe should not be allowed to be made safe.

Kung Jin's ji2 and njp should have the hitbox adjusted so it doesn't hit opponents directly underneath him. The priority on his jumping attacks is ridiculous..

scorpion's j3 shouldn't beat everything.

No single move should be a viable counter to every option safely.

Any character specific or general gameplay improvement should take a back seat to one very important thing.

Fix the GD "connecting to online" issue that is completely removing several peoples' entire ability to even play the damn game since the Tanya patch. It's bad enough that the online is utter garbage, but it's even worse when you can't even try.
 
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Blonde_Huntress

Edenian Witch <3
I can only really speak for Mileena, but:

-F3 shorter start up frames (2-3 would be just fine IMO).
-Roll as a low. (Common sense)
-Teleport Kick as an overhead. (Again, common sense)
-Fix being able to be thrown on fade invisibility (Ethereal).
-MAYBE slightly shorten startup frames (1-2) on regular fades (Ethereal).

Mileena is really coming along for all three variants in my opinion. Piercing and Ravenous are in decent standing (at present), and Ethereal is almost there as well. The variations aren't so much in need as the general character itself is for certain things. Mileena just needs to have some safer options. Tightening up her pokes would help.
 
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MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
If Erron can no longer get a command grab off his 211 string (his only safe string btw) he should get a damage or range buff on it to compensate because he's never going to land it reliably in a match (in every scenario it's better to take the last hit of any of his strings rather than blocking them and eating xx command grab i.e damage mitigation).

The meter gain on the 211 string is actually in line with meter gained on strings in general, it just happens to hit 5 times and builds meter per hit - you know like every other string in the game...

Lastly, any nerfs to his command grab game (or any of his universal/non variation specific tools for that matter) also indirectly nerf his gunslinger variation...

P.s; Erron has had at least 1 nerf every update so far with absolutely no buffs to compensate...granted they were warranted nerfs, but please keep this in mind when you are theorising on how best to balance him/nerf him into the ground. Thanks!
How is that is only safe string lol
 

Wigy

There it is...
Hey bud can you explain what you mean about the interactables thing?
Look at my post above.

Basically interactable shortcuts have no purpose and they cause certain characters to use them accidentally when attempting a string that has 1+2 in it.

Cassie can't use her b212 d+12 string near an interactable