Match-Up Discussion - Kano Kano's Ruthless Matchup Discussion Thread

[SaltShaker]

Such feeling is normal, even when you use Cybernetic Kano.

You may play footsies or zone perfectly for 35-40 seconds. But then a character like Erron Black knocks you down and takes away 70%+ of your life with rudimentary mix ups.

Do not feel bad as such scenarios are very common in this game.

This exact scenario happens to me at times. Masterful zoning and footsies, space control, nuetral control. Then I get poked once into disadvantage, into guessing wrong on a 50/50, into the corner, into guessing wrong again, and just like that I lost 75% life.

The single most frustrating thing in this game.

Play @niredina and tell me patience is key. It's stupid.

I agree with pretty much everything Rude said vs Ermac. MU is tedious, very tedious, but winnable because Kano has a lot of options defensively and offensively. If that's on PS4 I don't mind taking on some of those matches in the near future.

 

[Rude]

Play @niredina and tell me patience is key. It's stupid.

You disagree? I'd like to know why to improve my mu knowledge.

I will play anyone. Tell him to add me. jshipp39 on PSN. Always could use the xp

 

[Rude]

This exact scenario happens to me at times. Masterful zoning and footsies, space control, nuetral control. Then I get poked once into disadvantage, into guessing wrong on a 50/50, into the corner, into guessing wrong again, and just like that I lost 75% life.

The single most frustrating thing in this game.



I agree with pretty much everything Rude said vs Ermac. MU is tedious, very tedious, but winnable because Kano has a lot of options defensively and offensively. If that's on PS4 I don't mind taking on some of those matches in the near future.

The scenario you described happens a lot. It is very frustrating.

 

[bdizzle2700]

You disagree? I'd like to know why to improve my mu knowledge.

I will play anyone. Tell him to add me. jshipp39 on PSN. Always could use the xp

He went to the bahamas this week(what an ass haha) so when when he comes back ill ask him to add youu when he comes back. I agree with alot with you in terms of being patient, but alot of his stuff will trade in his favor, maybe I just don't play it right. I also doubt he beas him if every thing is in his favor.

 

[Devin Thorn]

Man I gotta figure out how to get videos on here from my phone, (btw sup bdizzle!) I'm doing really well for the most part but I have issues from time to time that I can't seem to solve even with training room and watching replays. Sometimes it's nice to have better fighters observe and give feed back imo

 

[Killjoy McGee]

Any advice on the grandmaster sub match up? feels like once he has me in the corner its all over for Kano!

 

[Devin Thorn]

Any advice on the grandmaster sub match up? feels like once he has me in the corner its all over for Kano!

My friend mains him and I'd have to say saving meter for ex ball and mb knives is pretty important so when you are in the corner you can work your way out rather easily. Then it's about keeping him in the middle of the map and being very patient with him. I'm sure a better Kano user can give you a better game plan than myself

 

[Killjoy McGee]

Also any have advice on how to deal with Jax's pressure?

Also thanks @Devin Thorn

 

[Devin Thorn]

Jax is a tough mu that I don't really know how to deal with honestly just feels like a hard mu overall
@SaltShaker @Rude @bdizzle2700 any thoughts?

 

[bdizzle2700]

Jax is a tough mu that I don't really know how to deal with honestly just feels like a hard mu overall
@SaltShaker @Rude @bdizzle2700 any thoughts?

With cyber, I just zone as much as I can, on read ex knives, up close respect him, but I think just start learning when to poke out and back off.

 

[ando1184]

Any advice on the grandmaster sub match up? feels like once he has me in the corner its all over for Kano!

Zone him fullscreen, bait slide when 3/4 to half screen, b33 ice ball has a big enough window to MB ball through it and interrupt. When you're in the corner look out for his overhead and lows. Overhead can be punished by commando/cyber b1 on block, or armor through. If you're cyber MB db1 is good against both his OH and his low. Be prepared to tech throws as well. Good subs leave a clone and try and trap you with throws.

 

[Killjoy McGee]

Zone him fullscreen, bait slide when 3/4 to half screen, b33 ice ball has a big enough window to MB ball through it and interrupt. When you're in the corner look out for his overhead and lows. Overhead can be punished by commando/cyber b1 on block, or armor through. If you're cyber MB db1 is good against both his OH and his low. Be prepared to tech throws as well. Good subs leave a clone and try and trap you with throws.

Alright thanks for the advice, so when I'm zoning him when should I be throwing my knives? Because I've noticed that most Subs tend to clone, ice ball and then throw clone

 

[ando1184]

Alright thanks for the advice, so when I'm zoning him when should I be throwing my knives? Because I've noticed that most Subs tend to clone, ice ball and then throw clone

Fullscreen, you have enough time to break clone and duck the ice ball. Don't try zoning any closer bc the trade isn't worth the risk. If you are cyber you can even MB knife fullscreen when sub does MB ice ball because 2 of the knives hit him and don't allow him to advance. Yes you have to block immediately after that so the MB ice ball doesn't hit you but most cases it causes SZ to have no more advantage than when he did prior to the trade.

 

[Killjoy McGee]

Fullscreen, you have enough time to break clone and duck the ice ball. Don't try zoning any closer bc the trade isn't worth the risk. If you are cyber you can even MB knife fullscreen when sub does MB ice ball because 2 of the knives hit him and don't allow him to advance. Yes you have to block immediately after that so the MB ice ball doesn't hit you but most cases it causes SZ to have no more advantage than when he did prior to the trade.

Alright, thanks for the help!

 

[mrtom]

I've played a ton of piercing Melina's and I always go with cutthroat. I think the match is in our favor but you need to play smart. Her roll is a real pain in the ass but it's a free combo on block. Try to avoid blocking low too much, her roll can be blocked standing and the ex version is an overhead. I noticed that every time i lost or ate a big combo its because i was blocking low.
I like to air ball her low projectile, if you're far and think it might be blocked just mb it for the unblockable throw. A lot of Melina's like to bait you by throwing a projectile far away and then teleport kick when you try to throw yours. Use stance switch or jab to bait or then punish. While her roll is super unsafe, it's also very effective so we can't just poke and attack relentlessly. You want to be a little more defensive and punish hard. Once they realize they're eating big damage every time you block a roll they should wise up and stop rolling, that's when you can turn up the pressure.

EDIT: So the new patch is supposedly making her roll a low so forget what I said about blocking high. Damn patch.

I've also fought a lot of Summoner Quan's and he's tough no matter character you're using. The key to him is get him in the corner and keep him there. I also use cutthroat for the overhead/low corner pressure. You can get a lot of meterless damage off b12 xx db1 and b31 xx db1 mixups. Quan really has no way out of the corner unless he gets a read or you screw up. If you get caught in his bat mixups you can hope you guess right or find a opening to armor through.

 

[SaltShaker]

Also any have advice on how to deal with Jax's pressure?

Also thanks @Devin Thorn

Jax is a tough mu that I don't really know how to deal with honestly just feels like a hard mu overall
@SaltShaker @Rude @bdizzle2700 any thoughts?

Speaking for Cybernetics, Jax is a tough MU. It can get really ugly really fast so you have to be careful.

You can zone Jax fairly well in this match. When fighting Heavy Weapons Jax be mindful of the extra projectiles. Jump his ground n pounds and punish with air ball if you're inside the full screen distance. Keep distance and use backdash when you can. I try to keep as much distance as I can and force him to have to come inside. Anti-airs are strong in this MU so use them as well. Your normals/strings work very well in this MU and this is a MU that Kano can play some very strong footsies.

It's easier to point out what not to do or look out for in this MU. Do not by any means stand toe to toe face to face with him. His pressure is too good. Learn the gaps that you can poke out/armor out and do them. This is vital in the MU because if not he'll abuse these strings and they'll be safe.

When blocking and he does a string into wave or OH dash punch, remember to full combo punish. I can't stress how important this is. If you read/guess wave is coming, nuetral duck and punish. Once you start doing this he will start mixing in OH dash punch, so you can block it high and full punish. It becomes a 50/50 guess of sort. I suggest taking the risk because you DO NOT want to be blocking wave up close because eventually you'll guess wrong on the combo starters and eat 40%.

Be extremely careful pressuring him on knockdown. Jax WU's are too real when he has a bar. I don't pressure Jax on knockdown nearly as much as I do other characters. I prefer to end all combos in the standing reset laser in this MU. When you are knocked down backdash WU if he isn't there or just stand, but if he's hovering over you you'll have to guess. If you have a bar and feel he's going to 50/50 you always go for the EX Ball cancel combo.

Stay out of the corner unless you want to watch the cinematics of the game.

Jax is a strong character and this is a tough MU. Make sure you know exactly what to do and how to do it in each situation because Jax, like the Sub-Zero MU, requires you to be on the top of your game.

 

[Devin Thorn]

Thanks man! With Sub I have so much experience playing against him that I do really well against him usually so really just gotta fight Jax a ton and try to implement what you've told me. I really need to start on Cutthroat, I've been lazy about it because whenever I'm online I just default to Cyber Kano. I fought one Jax online and I took the second round after he took the first with very careful play but you're so right, one miscue and you're torched and he's so hard to comeback against

 

[M2Dave]

This exact scenario happens to me at times. Masterful zoning and footsies, space control, nuetral control. Then I get poked once into disadvantage, into guessing wrong on a 50/50, into the corner, into guessing wrong again, and just like that I lost 75% life.

The single most frustrating thing in this game.

Not surprisingly, that is why Summoner Quan Chi is a superior zoning character than Cybernetic Kano. Unbeknonwst to most people, as is Full Auto Jacqui, whom I tested offline against the some of the best YOMI players. Cybernetic Kano is a solid character but definitely not top tier material. The damage output is too low and the lack of a mix up is a tremendous weakness.

 

[Devin Thorn]

Not surprisingly, that is why Summoner Quan Chi is a superior zoning character than Cybernetic Kano. Unbeknonwst to most people, as is Full Auto Jacqui, whom I tested offline against the some of the best YOMI players. Cybernetic Kano is a solid character but definitely not top tier material. The damage output is too low and the lack of a mix up is a tremendous weakness.

Tell me if I'm wrong in this thought process, as I'm a relatively new to fighting games and honestly just want to gauge others opinions. I've thought Kano was good but not great since MKX came out because of his lack of true mix ups. When I say this I'm told he doesn't need them as he is a zoner and has other tools for opening the opponent up. If this is the case then why do other zoners get them and why is it wrong of me to ask for a at least one option to keep the opponent honest when up close or after a hkd?

 

[ando1184]

I'm using cyber in these vids, but here's me vs Jupiter and sao_87 online on psn. I didn't play perfect since it was online but I did manage to figure some nice stuff out. This was my first time fighting both a competent jax and scorpion online. I hope it helps some

 

[Devin Thorn]

Jesus man good matches but it looked like you were working 10x as hard as your opponent to get anywhere at times. It showcased your skill as much as it showcases how much of an uphill battle Cyber Kano can face at times.

 

[M2Dave]

Tell me if I'm wrong in this thought process, as I'm a relatively new to fighting games and honestly just want to gauge others opinions. I've thought Kano was good but not great since MKX came out because of his lack of true mix ups. When I say this I'm told he doesn't need them as he is a zoner and has other tools for opening the opponent up. If this is the case then why do other zoners get them and why is it wrong of me to ask for a at least one option to keep the opponent honest when up close or after a hkd?

Aside from design decisions, there is no good answer to your question. Cutthroat is supposed to be the 50/50 mix up variation, Commando is supposed to be the grappling variation, and Cybernetic is supposed to be the zoning variation.

50/50 mix ups aside, what is kind of frustrating is that Jacqui and Quan Chi do the meter-less 30%+ mid screen combos that Cybernetic Kano can only do with meter.

 

[Rude]

It's true - Cyber Kano simply doesn't punish hard enough. So if you're in a situation where you have to regain a lifelead it can be very difficult.

It gets a little better in the corner but again, other characters can do more for less.

 

[dribirut]

I'm using cyber in these vids, but here's me vs Jupiter and sao_87 online on psn. I didn't play perfect since it was online but I did manage to figure some nice stuff out. This was my first time fighting both a competent jax and scorpion online. I hope it helps some

Really nice kano man! But you need to hit confirm those lasers more. No offense but you were getting away with murder with them. Once he learns the mu, those will be punished every single time. I learned that the hard way

 

[dribirut]

The more and more I play and learn about this game, the more I realize how badly he got nerfed. Imo from high/upper mid to Lower mid/ possibly low