MY PREDICTIONS FOR THE NEXT BALANCE PATCH - POST YOURS

[Predannok]

ALso

Sonya: fix special forces drone to actually buffer like quan chis bat.

Erron black : should not be able to cancel 21122 at any point into the command grab this is too much of a guessing.

Johny cage: Nerf the damage of the stunt clones there are already plus on block ,doesn't need to be doing 45-50% into a standing reset midscreen we already have one scorpion.( forget this)

Scorpoin: nerf the crap out of flame aura

Raiden: f1 to 7 frames startup OR A high OR f12 -6 on block

-Master of Storms setups stay longer active just like Subzeros Ice clone

-Reduce The recovery of Displacer raidens non ex Teleport its the whole point of the variation why should it be unsafe?

 

[GuerillaTactix]

How about we give all characters a 6 frame d1 to deal with f1 and leave the rest as is.

Honestly this is all Takeda needs. I like where you're going with this though. Interesting read. Now to read what other people are saying because I find it hard to believe people would willingly nerf their own characters.

 

[GuerillaTactix]

Backdashing aginst thunder god?

Hahaha! Every Takeda's first attempt after realizing you can't poke out... GGS.

 

[GuerillaTactix]

How about giving all characters a move that can beat out a 9 frame window? like idk... an 7 frame or less poke?

As... that's the frames you have to counterpoke after a blocked F12 if it's -3 on block and F12 is 6 frames.

Then no one should have any problems with raiden's F12 string AND raiden could still be able to stagger strings effectively.

I like this idea far more than nerfs.

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

I think summoner Quan could be adjusted. I've bounced around a bunch of ideas, and can't really decide on what I think would work best. Maybe one, but no more of the options, would be a viable nerf without destroying the variation.

1. Bat cooldowns. If you use the bat in a combo, you won't be able to summon another bat for pressure after ending combo with a HKD.
2. Shorter active time for bat. Not sure the exact active time now, but it feels really long. The longer it stays out, the longer Quan stays a huge threat from anywhere on the screen.
3. Remove green swag mist from his normals. Basically, B2 would lose the sword and have a considerable range drop, the hitbox for NJP would be reduced to the length of his arms, B12 wouldn't exist, the last hit of 141 would knockdown in wakeup range, etc. This takes away some of the free/safe vortex threat by making the overhead option more difficult and greater chances for reversals and armoring out.

3 seems the most drastic, but also the most fun in my mind. Quan's other variations are considered gimped compared to summoner, but are still tournament viable. That in itself should draw attention towards normalization.

 

[Predannok]

I think summoner Quan could be adjusted. I've bounced around a bunch of ideas, and can't really decide on what I think would work best. Maybe one, but no more of the options, would be a viable nerf without destroying the variation.

1. Bat cooldowns. If you use the bat in a combo, you won't be able to summon another bat for pressure after ending combo with a HKD.
2. Shorter active time for bat. Not sure the exact active time now, but it feels really long. The longer it stays out, the longer Quan stays a huge threat from anywhere on the screen.
3. Remove green swag mist from his normals. Basically, B2 would lose the sword and have a considerable range drop, the hitbox for NJP would be reduced to the length of his arms, B12 wouldn't exist, the last hit of 141 would knockdown in wakeup range, etc. This takes away some of the free/safe vortex threat by making the overhead option more difficult and greater chances for reversals and armoring out.

3 seems the most drastic, but also the most fun in my mind. Quan's other variations are considered gimped compared to summoner, but are still tournament viable. That in itself should draw attention towards normalization.

I Agree with point 1 and 2 but not one bit with point 3.

Without the "mist" he not only loses is good strings but also would lose the Sounds and the Visuals its the Equivalent of Raidens Electricity.
removing this makes no sense IMO.

- why the hell should he lose hes NJP? look at characters like Erron black, Takeda, Kung jin Or even Raiden with almost the same "mist" just with electric who even have more range.

-141 is one of sorceres MAIN TOOLs to get a hard knockdown. By removing the last hit that causes the Harknockdown ur making sorcerer compeletly useless : everyone with a special with fast startup would prevent you from getting ANYTHING started after u knocked them down .

-hes f2122 wouldn't exist neither and this is arguebly on of his best strings.

-b2 is his ONLY OVERHEAD why should he lose the range?

-b12 is -8 is and one of hes few safer string with good range why should this go away?

-The swords are Essentail in Quans gameplay exp: after a meterburn ground burst if u have no stamina without the swords u can only do trance meaning he would also do less damage.
If you win a air to air with jumping 1 or jumping 2 catching them with b2 is ur only option without stamina and even with stamina is god dam hard to run up and catch them in time with a standing 4 or 14

BTW u realize that in the intro he comes in with a Chopped demon head and his sword?

 

[kunglaogod]

Kung Lao gets a low starter like shinnok got a overhead starter let's go NRS

 

[Zoidberg747]

Jax:
-remove the atrocious amount of gaps in his strings: 2gap3gap2, b3-gap-d2, b3-gap-4 ,12-gap-b4 ,d1-gap-2

-fix b34 ~ OH dash punch whiffing on Goro in the corner.

-His MB OH Dash punch having a consistent launching arch ,instead of the guessing if run cancel f21 will hit or not and beeing forced just be doing 29% instead cuz He ain't Reptile. This is even worse on female characters.

-B2 beeing special cancelable on block and f2 not whiffing on crouching females

- Fix his d12 not counting as a string

- Give Wrestler jax a new brutality or Make the last hit of the quad slam easier cuz right now u must have a Pad to do this shit.

Quan cheese:
-Give Sorcerer and Summoner a Wakeup goddamit sure he has strong offense in summoner but that isn't a reason to be coin fliping once u get knocked down.Theres no excuse why sorcerer has do deal with this shit neither.

-Reduce the Startup of Spells in sorcerer

-Fix Portal stab whiffing point blank


Kotal kahn:
-b122 , b13 safe on block

-GIve Blood god a armor move Or/and make his parry have a hitstun

-Reduce the recovery of the Sun ray .

-REMOVE THE GAPS BTW EVERY SWORD CANCEL in War GOd ,apart from df2 they are already hella negative and punishable.

-Reduce the Startup frames of MB sun Disc just like In War god.

-Reduce the active frames of the vampiric Totem ,nobody can turtle 7 seconds straight without beeing hit in a game full of 50/50s.

-Blood offering only affecting hits and not blocked hits, why would i spend 10% of my health to do some extra chip damage?


Universally: Give everyone a good Poke

You want to Buff Jax AND Quan? You must be crazy.

Jax's string gaps are like his only weakness. Same with Quan's lack of wakeups. Not every character needs all strengths and no weaknesses.

 

[Cassandra Cage]

"A prediction that'll prove false"

 

[Alright RyRy]

Sonya's Special Forces Drone needs to be a 30 frame start up or less.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

You want to Buff Jax AND Quan? You must be crazy.

Jax's string gaps are like his only weakness. Same with Quan's lack of wakeups. Not every character needs all strengths and no weaknesses.

The only thing he really needs is the launches to be consistent with EVERY CHARACTER. He'll be fine afterwards.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Kung Lao gets a low starter like shinnok got a overhead starter let's go NRS

Nope.

 

[MK Led]

The last thing Ferra Torr needs is more levels of pain n gain, level 3 gives us 52% meterless combos and you're suggesting a level 5? You clearly don't understand the problems with that character. How about Ferra stops bojangling her ass of and gets back on my fucking back quicker and more consistantly

To call back to this... I feel like this does need some attention, perhaps a set time in which, if Ferra can't jump back on Torr's back, she just teleports there instantly when the time is up.

 

[Predannok]

You want to Buff Jax AND Quan? You must be crazy.

Jax's string gaps are like his only weakness. Same with Quan's lack of wakeups. Not every character needs all strengths and no weaknesses.

d12 is listed as a string.

232 having 2 gaps is just straight BullShit why does it even exist then?

b34 oh dash punch whiffing on goro and f2 thats a mid whiffing on some crouching are bugs that need to be fixed.

Both hes dash punch and energy wave can be neutral ducked and full combo punish. He has to work way harder than any Character in this game to get 40% midscreen.

Not only is is OH dash punch inconsistent but its punishable on block just like every Launching ex special should be.


Quan cheese having only strengths yeah Good one...

Quan cheese has great offensive so does Erron black shoud they therefor remove his Mb slide or MB command grab?

Quans sky drop's startup is just way too slow causing it to be beaten any any double hitting string.

Why does he has the Armor from the begin with when he can't use it btw gaps or as a wakeup?

What makes Warlock so special that he has 2 wakeups( portal stab and scoop) ?

If they didn't want to give him a Wakeup he wouldn't have got that ONE armored move in Summoner and sorcerer.

 

[Zoidberg747]

d12 is listed as a string.

Yes and it is a very good string. With how fast it is you have to be super on point to armor or backdash out of it, so it is fine.

232 having 2 gaps is just straight BullShit why does it even exist then?

Not every string has a use. I've never seen this used so I guess they could remove the gaps if they wanted, but no one would use it anyway.

b34 oh dash punch whiffing on goro and f2 thats a mid whiffing on some crouching are bugs that need to be fixed.

That would'nt be a buff, that would be a fix. I am always for those.

Both hes dash punch and energy wave can be neutral ducked and full combo punish. He has to work way harder than any Character in this game to get 40% midscreen.

This bullshit needs to stop. If I neutral duck trying to punish those a smart Jax will realize and OH punch me or d12 into pressure. Neutral ducking is not a legitimate reason to say the tools are lacking. I also dont care how hard he has to work to get 40% midscreen, he can still get it. You don't see me complaining that Dvorah's Wasp Cancel combos are really hard, because I know that doesn't change the fact that her damage is good.

Not only is is OH dash punch inconsistent but its punishable on block just like every Launching ex special should be.

This goes back to the fix part, those are fine. And I know it is punishable.


Quan cheese having only strengths yeah Good one...

Did I not say that his lack of wakeups was a weakness? Learn to read please. Quan's defense is bad because his offense is so stupidly good. He is quite balanced in that regard. Giving him a viable wakeup would be really broken because then he wouldn't have anything to fear once you finally get your offense going.

Quan cheese has great offensive so does Erron black shoud they therefor remove his Mb slide or MB command grab?

Erron Black may have strong offense that could be toned down but Quan Chi is one of the only characters in the game with a true vortex that can be switched between OH Low, Low OH(the difference being merely a few frames if you do it right) and a crap load of hard to blockables. Erron relies more on tick throws and 50/50s but doesnt have a vortex. P.S. I do think Erron should be toned down.

Quans sky drop's startup is just way too slow causing it to be beaten any any double hitting string.

Yep, thereby making it a bad wakeup. This is fair when you consider Quan's offensive tools. He also has EX scoop in Warlock which is a viable wakeup.

Why does he has the Armor from the begin with when he can't use it btw gaps or as a wakeup?

Not every armor move can blow up gaps, and besides that goes back to my point earlier. Quan has shitty defense because he has incredible offense. You can still use the armor sky drop it just is very limited and has to be used on a very good read.

What makes Warlock so special that he has 2 wakeups( portal stab and scoop) ?

In Warlock most of his offense is extremely punishable, so I assume they gave him better armor and wakeups to make up for that fact.

If they didn't want to give him a Wakeup he wouldn't have got that ONE armored move in Summoner and sorcerer.

They did give him a wakeup, it isn't a good wakeup but it is still a wakeup. There are quite a few characters who have shitty wakeups in the game, if you want one who has a good wakeup stop playing Quan. You can still use the EX sky drop on a hard read, or if nothing else you can backdash or delay wakeup and block the mixups. Quan is not a defensive character so expecting him to have good defense doesnt make much sense.

Responses in Red

 

[Wetdoba]

To call back to this... I feel like this does need some attention, perhaps a set time in which, if Ferra can't jump back on Torr's back, she just teleports there instantly when the time is up.

Yeah I mean I may have jumped the gun on that as Ive gotten a lot better at recognizing what kind of stuff gets Ferra on your back quickly, like she will get back on while you are doing a F32. Ive also made the switch to Ruthless over Vicious so I can end combos in command grab rather than Boss Toss to keep Ferra on my back for my next move. Im starting to think Vicious is going to be the Ferra variation saved for specific match ups

 

[WidowPuppy]

What about Kitana's b3? That wasn't in the game before, was it?

Yes, and still is. Off her 3,D4 string called Deception.

If someone already answered this, sorry. I'm catching up on this thread, I'm still on page 8.

 

[Tenryuga]

.

Johny cage: Nerf the damage of the stunt clones there are already plus on block ,doesn't need to be doing 45-50% into a standing reset midscreen we already have one scorpion.

That kind of damage either requires both clones and stamina with meter midscreen, a clone and a meter with corner, or 2+ meter with stamina or corner to get. No SD JC player is going to blow both Clones on that combo unless it will kill due to how useful clones are for him. SD also has a 5 second cooldown AFTER clones are used. So for 5 seconds all his confirms become unimpressive unless he hits a f24 or 113 / 114 in the corner and has meter. ~33% damage for one meter is not impressive damage which is around what he would get midscreen. For those 5 seconds his on block pressure is also weaker as well as his neutral. This variation deserves the damage it gets and the cooldown for the stunt doubles should stay due to the strength of the options it grants him. IMO it is komplete and fair.

You also should not compare his reset to scorpions. Scorpion is able to convert strings, overheads and low pokes into massive meterless damage. Johnny Cage is only able to convert off his F2 overhead and ONE low that is part of a string that starts HIGH and is combo punishable on block forcing you to cancel into things to keep you safe. His conversions are also less than scorpions without being in the corner using both mimics or a combination of mimics and meter.

Also the stunt clones that are plus are mimic shadow kick and EX mimic rising shadow. Regular mimic rising shadow is negative on hit. You can also armor in between strings into mimic shadow Kick.

BTW I'm not trying to say Johnny Cage SD is bad; IMO it's a great variation. I'm just trying to put things into perspective for you since you're just looking at the damage he gets and not looking at the requirements to get the damage or any of his flaws.

As for this topic I only have one request and that is to make Cage's F3 safe on block in variations other than A-list; Where it is plus on run cancel. I think its like -8 right now? I don't really see why it has to be that negative.

 

[Predannok]

That kind of damage either requires both clones and stamina with meter midscreen, a clone and a meter with corner, or 2+ meter with stamina or corner to get. No SD JC player is going to blow both Clones on that combo unless it will kill due to how useful clones are for him. SD also has a 5 second cooldown AFTER clones are used. So for 5 seconds all his confirms become unimpressive unless he hits a f24 or 113 / 114 in the corner and has meter. ~33% damage for one meter is not impressive damage which is around what he would get midscreen. For those 5 seconds his on block pressure is also weaker as well as his neutral. This variation deserves the damage it gets and the cooldown for the stunt doubles should stay due to the strength of the options it grants him. IMO it is komplete and fair.

You also should not compare his reset to scorpions. Scorpion is able to convert strings, overheads and low pokes into massive meterless damage. Johnny Cage is only able to convert off his F2 overhead and ONE low that is part of a string that starts HIGH and is combo punishable on block forcing you to cancel into things to keep you safe. His conversions are also less than scorpions without being in the corner using both mimics or a combination of mimics and meter.

Also the stunt clones that are plus are mimic shadow kick and EX mimic rising shadow. Regular mimic rising shadow is negative on hit. You can also armor in between strings into Mimic Shadow Kick.

BTW I'm not trying to say Johnny Cage SD is bad; IMO it's a great variation. I'm just trying to put things into perspective for you since you're just looking at the damage he gets and not looking at the requirements to get the damage or any of his flaws.

As for this topic I only have one request and that is to make Cage's F3 safe on block in variations other than A-list; Where it is plus on run cancel. I think its like -8 right now? I don't really see why it has to be that negative.

You made long but reasonable point there.

 

[BunLantern]

All I want is for Goro's B1U22 to hit consistently. You can keep the punishable gap but for god sakes fix the hitbox.

A couple more arms couldn't hurt either.

 

[WakeUp DP]

Kung Jin - can no longer jump or use EX moves

Jax no longer safe or + on everything he does.

 

[ManjoumeThunder]

I'd like to see Unbreakable buffs. I like Cryo and Grand as they are. I don't know other characters enough to say.

 

[Predannok]

Responses in Red

Energy wave can be seen miles away to be poked or neutral ducked on reaction, Jax takes a huge the risk if he goes for the OH and if u guessed right he eats a combo.

Would u mind to explain the d12 pressure ur talking 'bout?

If EB gets toned down then I have no problem with Summoner having no wakeup, but not Sorcerer Quan lacking of wakeup.

 

[MK Led]

Yeah I mean I may have jumped the gun on that as Ive gotten a lot better at recognizing what kind of stuff gets Ferra on your back quickly, like she will get back on while you are doing a F32. Ive also made the switch to Ruthless over Vicious so I can end combos in command grab rather than Boss Toss to keep Ferra on my back for my next move. Im starting to think Vicious is going to be the Ferra variation saved for specific match ups

I've been using Ruthless recently too, but I do think the Ferra return should be more consistent, there is no reason for it not to be. Not saying it should be quick, but it should be at least a little more consistent, imo.

 

[StormGoddess]

I just wish NRS 1st choice would be to Buff weak characters before nerfing strong characters. Don't want them to kill all the hype and excitement for me.
ALSO work on the netcode.