alright, so i promised i'd do this in that other big thread. i've actually broken down most of this on twitter already, but i doubt anyone here saw that so let's go!
so all the recent discussion on the lack of viable zoning in MKX had me thinking about the strong zoners in previous NRS games, when i suddenly came to some big realizations. zoning characters in these games tend to be either dominant or useless, with not that much in between. furthermore, their plan for success is vastly different from the classic SF model, and not in a healthy way; good zoning tends to be seen as boring, even more so than in other games. what specifically do i mean with all of this?
zoning characters in these games typically need to keep you at the other end of the screen for the entire match in order to win, with the main exception being the ones who are way too well-rounded & ridiculously OP (hi kabal & martian!!!). they tend to rely on nothing but projectiles and other means of full-screen control until the opponent gets in, and this design means they can't have the greatest options once the gap is closed. this often creates a game flow where one side or the other will be dominant for most or all of the match, with little in the way of back-and-forth sequences. and those tend to be the most interesting part of FGs for both players and viewers!
to see where this is a problem, let's compare this to good ol' super turbo. the key point to understand here is that zoning in SF2 is about more than just long-range control - these characters also tend to have strong & safe mid-range games as well! once you close the gap on ryu or guile, you have to deal with their amazing cr.MKs. medium pokes in SF2 cannot be whiff-punished on reaction, deal more damage than the vast majority of single hits in NRS games, and are + on block while pushing the opponent back a good distance! and their near-instant recovery means that if you try to jump at them, you're eating a DP or even an anti-air normal. this forces opponents to space themselves just outside the cr.MK range and either try to read the poke and throw out their own to beat it, or use the whiff to move in close enough to use their good normals. this is a much more interesting style of play & game flow, as it lends itself to a lot more small momentum shifts and decision-making. it also lends itself to a lot more variance with character matchups.
the fundamental issue that makes this impossible to pull off in NRS games is the way the games are modeled after 3D fighters. i am specifically referring to the enormous whiff recovery on almost all normals in these games, as well as the use of strings that can be completed even on whiff. if you throw out the equivalent of a "medium" poke here and the opponent reads it, they get to jump in and punish you with a full BNB. that's the complete opposite of what happens to jumpers in SF, and this is why zoning characters are stuck with the all-or-nothing approach i mentioned earlier. the sort of extended footsie game you see in classic SF just cannot work here because the pokes aren't safe enough. and before people bring up the d4's, this is one of the areas where the use of strings becomes an issue. in SF2 you don't get combos from your core footsie normals, but that doesn't matter because almost nothing leads to combos and everything does crazy damage. in comparison, the NRS d4's give a pathetic reward when compared to the many long-ranged strings out there.
this means that trying to be ryu or guile in MK is inherently a nickel-and-dime strategy that gets badly outpaced by any of the more offensive styles of play and has awful risk/reward. thus, pure zoning characters need completely oppressive full-screen control in order to be viable, and that's just no fun for anybody involved besides m2dave. i can't really blame NRS for wanting to avoid that this time around!
the presence of strings also means that solving this problem is far more difficult than simply reducing whiff recovery across the board. the main issue with that approach is that the entire game would turn into fishing for safe strings into fat combos, and i would argue that this would be even worse than a heavy emphasis on mixups. zoning would either still kinda suck or be too good here, depending on how safe/damaging the character's strings are. basically the strength of the characters would be mostly tied to their strings, homogenizing the game even more than what we've seen thus far.
the most interesting solution i've heard here came from node/ubetuff on twitter, who suggested allowing d1's/d3's/d4's to combo into specials. my lack of MKX-specific knowledge prevents me from going in harder on this, but it seems this could have some potential. aren't all or most of the safe specials that start combos EX moves? using a meter to turn good footsies into something meaningful without risk sounds fair to me...after all, you can still use the unsafe ones if you have good reactions and see something whiff. and even being able to tack on a safe meterless 8% from good pokes will do a lot to incentivize mid-range play. heck, NRS already added something kinda like this with kitana's b3...quick low poke that combos into a safe special for a little damage or an unsafe one for a lot of damage. it doesn't seem to have the range you'd want though, which is why i'm thinking the crouching kicks could work.
it also seems like MK9 kitana could be a useful case to look at for this, as she strikes me as the biggest exception to this entire post. she's good but far from too good, and she can scare you at a variety of ranges. the only thing i question is how much of her game is actual zoning, at least against the relevant characters. obviously she lames out the bottom tier (i speak from experience here!), and i know it's a thing against cage...but she seems like more of a hybrid/"fish for big damage at far-mid range" type against the top/high tier as a whole? would need some input on this.
well, that about does it on my end. i hope this sheds some light on fundamental design issues and sparks some real discussion, and would love to see the actual MKX players come up with some ideas i'm missing!
so all the recent discussion on the lack of viable zoning in MKX had me thinking about the strong zoners in previous NRS games, when i suddenly came to some big realizations. zoning characters in these games tend to be either dominant or useless, with not that much in between. furthermore, their plan for success is vastly different from the classic SF model, and not in a healthy way; good zoning tends to be seen as boring, even more so than in other games. what specifically do i mean with all of this?
zoning characters in these games typically need to keep you at the other end of the screen for the entire match in order to win, with the main exception being the ones who are way too well-rounded & ridiculously OP (hi kabal & martian!!!). they tend to rely on nothing but projectiles and other means of full-screen control until the opponent gets in, and this design means they can't have the greatest options once the gap is closed. this often creates a game flow where one side or the other will be dominant for most or all of the match, with little in the way of back-and-forth sequences. and those tend to be the most interesting part of FGs for both players and viewers!
to see where this is a problem, let's compare this to good ol' super turbo. the key point to understand here is that zoning in SF2 is about more than just long-range control - these characters also tend to have strong & safe mid-range games as well! once you close the gap on ryu or guile, you have to deal with their amazing cr.MKs. medium pokes in SF2 cannot be whiff-punished on reaction, deal more damage than the vast majority of single hits in NRS games, and are + on block while pushing the opponent back a good distance! and their near-instant recovery means that if you try to jump at them, you're eating a DP or even an anti-air normal. this forces opponents to space themselves just outside the cr.MK range and either try to read the poke and throw out their own to beat it, or use the whiff to move in close enough to use their good normals. this is a much more interesting style of play & game flow, as it lends itself to a lot more small momentum shifts and decision-making. it also lends itself to a lot more variance with character matchups.
the fundamental issue that makes this impossible to pull off in NRS games is the way the games are modeled after 3D fighters. i am specifically referring to the enormous whiff recovery on almost all normals in these games, as well as the use of strings that can be completed even on whiff. if you throw out the equivalent of a "medium" poke here and the opponent reads it, they get to jump in and punish you with a full BNB. that's the complete opposite of what happens to jumpers in SF, and this is why zoning characters are stuck with the all-or-nothing approach i mentioned earlier. the sort of extended footsie game you see in classic SF just cannot work here because the pokes aren't safe enough. and before people bring up the d4's, this is one of the areas where the use of strings becomes an issue. in SF2 you don't get combos from your core footsie normals, but that doesn't matter because almost nothing leads to combos and everything does crazy damage. in comparison, the NRS d4's give a pathetic reward when compared to the many long-ranged strings out there.
this means that trying to be ryu or guile in MK is inherently a nickel-and-dime strategy that gets badly outpaced by any of the more offensive styles of play and has awful risk/reward. thus, pure zoning characters need completely oppressive full-screen control in order to be viable, and that's just no fun for anybody involved besides m2dave. i can't really blame NRS for wanting to avoid that this time around!
the presence of strings also means that solving this problem is far more difficult than simply reducing whiff recovery across the board. the main issue with that approach is that the entire game would turn into fishing for safe strings into fat combos, and i would argue that this would be even worse than a heavy emphasis on mixups. zoning would either still kinda suck or be too good here, depending on how safe/damaging the character's strings are. basically the strength of the characters would be mostly tied to their strings, homogenizing the game even more than what we've seen thus far.
the most interesting solution i've heard here came from node/ubetuff on twitter, who suggested allowing d1's/d3's/d4's to combo into specials. my lack of MKX-specific knowledge prevents me from going in harder on this, but it seems this could have some potential. aren't all or most of the safe specials that start combos EX moves? using a meter to turn good footsies into something meaningful without risk sounds fair to me...after all, you can still use the unsafe ones if you have good reactions and see something whiff. and even being able to tack on a safe meterless 8% from good pokes will do a lot to incentivize mid-range play. heck, NRS already added something kinda like this with kitana's b3...quick low poke that combos into a safe special for a little damage or an unsafe one for a lot of damage. it doesn't seem to have the range you'd want though, which is why i'm thinking the crouching kicks could work.
it also seems like MK9 kitana could be a useful case to look at for this, as she strikes me as the biggest exception to this entire post. she's good but far from too good, and she can scare you at a variety of ranges. the only thing i question is how much of her game is actual zoning, at least against the relevant characters. obviously she lames out the bottom tier (i speak from experience here!), and i know it's a thing against cage...but she seems like more of a hybrid/"fish for big damage at far-mid range" type against the top/high tier as a whole? would need some input on this.
well, that about does it on my end. i hope this sheds some light on fundamental design issues and sparks some real discussion, and would love to see the actual MKX players come up with some ideas i'm missing!
