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General/Other - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage General Discussion Thread

NorCalSamurai

Bacon Lettuce Tomato
I tested it out yesterday, and I want to say that Yellow Shadow Kick is +11-13 on block. Had it set to reversal armored specials and I could jail with D4 after a blocked YSK, but it felt like I had to be frame perfect or close to it.
 

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
Oh, can anyone with the update check if clone shadow kick is still + on block? It'd be horrible if we lost that with the universal change to + moves.
 

BoricuaHeat

PSN:KrocoCola
Got some more satisfying results after hitting up the lab again with Shadow Kick Run Cancels.

To kick things of F24xxSKRC seems to be +10 on block. After some more testing you can jail into 21 and beat out 6 frame d1's with another F24. In addition to that you can follow up for a combo using F24xxSKRC > F24 > D1 (omitable) > F3 > Nut Punch. You can also use 11, 12, F3, D1 to follow up after run cancelling F24 for a Nut Punch ender. Note: I couldn't get D3 to jail after the run cancel due to my poor execution, but I'm positive it should work.

Secondly 21xxSKRC is +5 on block and allows for a follow up with F24 on hit. This cancel is visually faster then others and allows for efficient throw mix ups.

Finally 114xxSKRC has some ridiculous advantage which allows you to jail into F24. I didn't take the time to figure out the proper frame data but will look into it later on this week (hopefully you have enough time to whiff the first part of 11 and still beat out 6 frame D1's).

I've also provided some more potato quality videos with my results,

Combos


Blockstrings



EDIT: I went ahead and practiced using F2 SKRC to go along with all these strings, I gotta say it's worth the effort. F2SKRC > 1 will combo and jails on block. This cancel however will take some practice as it is gruesomely hard to pull off at least from my experience.

Note: I didn't record the combo but here's an example of what's possible, F2SKRC > 113SKRC > F24 > 12 > F3 > Nut Punch (28%). Also video below showing it in a blockstring,

 
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Tenryuga

Ball Buster
Sup guys just got MKX yesterday. New to the series and I'm planning to play JC. Had some questions:

Is the frame data for JC accurate? Says his 1 is 9f startup and +2. It also says that shadowkick and mimic shadow kick are unsafe but I have been hearing that they are +.

What are some of his best pokes? I assume I'll be using 1,1 and F2 alot but I'm not sure what else I should be using.
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Sup guys just got MKX yesterday. New to the series and I'm planning to play JC. Had some questions:

Is the frame data for JC accurate? Says his 1 is 9f startup and +2. It also says that shadowkick and mimic shadow kick are unsafe but I have been hearing that they are +.

What are some of his best pokes? I assume I'll be using 1,1 and F2 alot but I'm not sure what else I should be using.
D4 is his best, but d1 and d3 are good as well. The mimic shadow kick is at least +11 on block, and the shadow uppercut is safe on block but minus I think.
 
Anybody mess around with pokes into skrcs in A-List?

Doesn't seem like you can combo off of them hitting (which would probably be mad cheap if you could, especially with that d4).

Not sure how it changes the block advantage though - it's tough to execute consistently.
 

BoricuaHeat

PSN:KrocoCola
Sup guys just got MKX yesterday. New to the series and I'm planning to play JC. Had some questions:

Is the frame data for JC accurate? Says his 1 is 9f startup and +2. It also says that shadowkick and mimic shadow kick are unsafe but I have been hearing that they are +.

What are some of his best pokes? I assume I'll be using 1,1 and F2 alot but I'm not sure what else I should be using.
F3 is your best friend in A List and Stunt Double as both allow for a full combo on hit or pressure on block (gotta have your Shadow in Stunt Double to get combos and blockstrings going tho). His D4 has amazing range and surprisingly minimal recovery so don't be afraid to press this button at max range. Finally F2 when you got them respecting D4 to confirm into a full combo and if it's blocked either cancel into Enhanced Force Balls, Run Cancel (A List) or Mimic Shadow Kick (assuming you have clones up).

You'll start using 11 once your in and have the fear of F2 implanted which leads into some of his best blockstring's, so be sure to practice those up as they are Johnny's bread and butter.

Anybody mess around with pokes into skrcs in A-List?

Doesn't seem like you can combo off of them hitting (which would probably be mad cheap if you could, especially with that d4).

Not sure how it changes the block advantage though - it's tough to execute consistently.
I am positive you can't combo after universal pokes (D1, D3, D4) under any circumstances so theirs probably no point into SKRC's with them except maybe D4 to gain some meter after every poke.
 
F3 is your best friend in A List and Stunt Double as both allow for a full combo on hit or pressure on block (gotta have your Shadow in Stunt Double to get combos and blockstrings going tho). His D4 has amazing range and surprisingly minimal recovery so don't be afraid to press this button at max range. Finally F2 when you got them respecting D4 to confirm into a full combo and if it's blocked either cancel into Enhanced Force Balls, Run Cancel (A List) or Mimic Shadow Kick (assuming you have clones up).

You'll start using 11 once your in and have the fear of F2 implanted which leads into some of his best blockstring's, so be sure to practice those up as they are Johnny's bread and butter.



I am positive you can't combo after universal pokes (D1, D3, D4) under any circumstances so theirs probably no point into SKRC's with them except maybe D4 to gain some meter after every poke.
Yeah it definitely looks like you can't combo after. But I wonder if it changes block advantage in any way. My execution is not godlike enough to try it though haha.
 

Gilky

Noob
Didn't know where to post this since there's no video thread, so I figured this was as good a place as any.


My Johnny Cage vs. my friends Scorpion.

I'll be the first to tell you I played pretty sloppy in this set. I first started playing A-List and only recently started learning stunt double. Feel free to critique my play and let me know what I should be doing better. I feel this video also showcases how good Scorpion is in the hands of someone good and could help with matchup knowledge as well.
 

BoricuaHeat

PSN:KrocoCola
@crosstalk I went ahead and tested D4 on block to see if it's worth the additional grind in execution, results were satisfying.

D4SKRC serves a similar to F3(4)RC, +4 on block which gives a free D1 check, get them to respect that and go straight into F3(4)RC, 11 or F24SKRC. I find that 11 is the most useful follow up since the other two options will use up your stamina bar and you can go into standard Johnny pressure.

Potato quality video showing D4SKRC on block (note, Kotal's D3 starts up in 7 frames).


Also started messing around with Flip Kick in corner combos and my god does it look awesome (also gains more meter). Made a little video showing a practical corner combo and impractical swag combo.


Also to finish my late night session with Juanito Jaula, I checked to see how much advantage your at after a 114SKRC. Sadly I couldn't figure out the exact number, but it's probably something ridiculous like +20 because your able to whiff the first part of 11 and they still get jailed into the string.


So in theory we could do F2SKRC > 114SKRC > 114 and it would all be a true blockstring, so yeah, JC pressure is gonna be nuts.
 
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NapalmCL

Professional training dummy
@crosstalk I went ahead and tested D4 on block to see if it's worth the additional grind in execution, results were satisfying.

D4SKRC serves a similar to F3(4)RC, +4 on block which gives a free D1 check, get them to respect that and go straight into F3(4)RC, 11 or F24SKRC. I find that 11 is the most useful follow up since the other two options will use up your stamina bar and you can go into standard Johnny pressure.

Potato quality video showing D4SKRC on block (note, Kotal's D3 starts up in 7 frames).


Also started messing around with Flip Kick in corner combos and my god does it look awesome (also gains more meter). Made a little video showing a practical corner combo and impractical swag combo.


Also to finish my late night session with Juanito Jaula, I checked to see how much advantage your at after a 114SKRC. Sadly I couldn't figure out the exact number, but it's probably something ridiculous like +20 because your able to whiff the first part of 11 and they still get jailed into the string.


So in theory we could do F2SKRC > 114SKRC > 114 and it would all be a true blockstring, so yeah, JC pressure is gonna be nuts.
It's hard not to appreciate the work you put into this. I'm following all the stuff you do as I was looking into A-list. What are the most reliable strings you're using to stick to opponents? Are you using the SKRCs often? I'm having trouble getting them to come out consistently fast and have been sticking to F3[4]s.

Also all around question, I always feel like I don't know where to burn out my meter. Mostly been using it to counter pressure with exnp and sk but was wondering if others are using it differently.
 

Bryck Walle

Counting the Days for the JCVD Johnny Costume!
It's hard not to appreciate the work you put into this. I'm following all the stuff you do as I was looking into A-list. What are the most reliable strings you're using to stick to opponents? Are you using the SKRCs often? I'm having trouble getting them to come out consistently fast and have been sticking to F3[4]s.

Also all around question, I always feel like I don't know where to burn out my meter. Mostly been using it to counter pressure with exnp and sk but was wondering if others are using it differently.

I don't know much about A list as I don't use it, but for Stunt Double I use it for whatever I need. With one bar in SD I can get 45-50% easy. I usually try to catch people doing unsafe strings into EXNP 11 11 F3 np for a good 25% easy damage. If there are spammers I usually will throw and EX SK at them from 3/4's of the screen away to knock them down and get a free run gap closer. It all comes down to what's needed in the moment I guess. I should probably say sometimes I use his EX Elbow in SD for the overhead part of it. With a mimic it causes a free ground bounce and if they try to attack me while my mimic is going up, it still hits them for the trade.
 

NapalmCL

Professional training dummy
I don't know much about A list as I don't use it, but for Stunt Double I use it for whatever I need. With one bar in SD I can get 45-50% easy. I usually try to catch people doing unsafe strings into EXNP 11 11 F3 np for a good 25% easy damage. If there are spammers I usually will throw and EX SK at them from 3/4's of the screen away to knock them down and get a free run gap closer. It all comes down to what's needed in the moment I guess. I should probably say sometimes I use his EX Elbow in SD for the overhead part of it. With a mimic it causes a free ground bounce and if they try to attack me while my mimic is going up, it still hits them for the trade.
That's good I've pretty much had the same idea, except for the ex mrs, which I should probably throw out in corner pressure for an overhead while I continue to press buttons in their face. EX SK has been my friend for resetting the situation in my favor though.
 

BoricuaHeat

PSN:KrocoCola
It's hard not to appreciate the work you put into this. I'm following all the stuff you do as I was looking into A-list. What are the most reliable strings you're using to stick to opponents? Are you using the SKRCs often? I'm having trouble getting them to come out consistently fast and have been sticking to F3[4]s.

Also all around question, I always feel like I don't know where to burn out my meter. Mostly been using it to counter pressure with exnp and sk but was wondering if others are using it differently.
I've mostly been in the lab practicing said cancels so I haven't had much time to play against other people. However the most reliable string I find will be F24SKRC as it removes one of F24's weaknesses which is having to end your pressure the moment it's blocked. Also I know the feel, SKRC's take a lot of practice to get down on a consistent level (I'm still struggling to get most of these out) but keep grinding it out, overtime it should feel natural.

Depends on the match up really but generally ENSK for when I'm being kept out, ENNP to get em off me and enhanced FB's when I want my stamina bar to regenerate during a blockstring.
 

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
Didn't know where to post this since there's no video thread, so I figured this was as good a place as any.


My Johnny Cage vs. my friends Scorpion.

I'll be the first to tell you I played pretty sloppy in this set. I first started playing A-List and only recently started learning stunt double. Feel free to critique my play and let me know what I should be doing better. I feel this video also showcases how good Scorpion is in the hands of someone good and could help with matchup knowledge as well.
Played this exact same MU for a while the other day. Lucky the people I play still suck vs Johnny. Looks like you're doing a lot of things right. Solid strings, good pressure after np, good footsies. Scorp makes it hard to close in. You really have to try to keep him close and also get the hard reads when he's going to use Hellfire and delay wakeup or go for jump ins because that move just has ridiculous tracking. Sometimes if it's full screen, I can get away with a run into shadow kick. The trade-off of course is then he can start mixing in raw spears.

You shouldn't really ever waste a bar on Ex shadow kick unless it's putting them in a corner or taking a round or something. You should try using exnuptunch if you know he's going for his run cancel string. Also you need to watch his stamina. He mested up a few times and got a normal dash and you can get a fullpunish. You could also be ready to quickly d1 in case he goes for something slower like the overhead or throw and it'll probably beat it. Idk anything else. Looks like a hard mu if your opponent doesn't get hit by the overhead randomly (keep telling my sparring partners to block fucking high!!! Damn sf habits).
 
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Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Yeah I was thinking about Johnny's incoming Commando skin that comes with the Predator and what it might look like. It got me thinking...We might think we're going to get some Arnold looking skin where he's in fatigues, or covered in mud, but what if we dont? What if NRS goes full troll and we get this guy:



I'm really not against this at all. I'd totally get to the choppa with this skin.
 

BoricuaHeat

PSN:KrocoCola
Yeah I was thinking about Johnny's incoming Commando skin that comes with the Predator and what it might look like. It got me thinking...We might think we're going to get some Arnold looking skin where he's in fatigues, or covered in mud, but what if we dont? What if NRS goes full troll and we get this guy:



I'm really not against this at all. I'd totally get to the choppa with this skin.
You do not know how fucking happy this would make me.
 

Fergus

Like Father, Like Daughter
That sounds crazy good, the only thing I'm worried about is getting armoured out of a non-true blockstring and having to hold the combo due to no full stamina for a breaker.

I think I prefer the uniqueness of SD and all the damage it gives. You lose quite a bit of damage in A-List imo.