General/Other - Kotal Kahn Kotal Kahn General Discussion

[RYX]

@regulas you weren't kidding, blood totem is bugged as fuck. i have hope it'll get fixed ASAP though, it's potentially super useful on blood god

 

[SZSR]

I really don't understand what the conditions are so that the whole Sun God Throw goes through, what are the conditions?

 

[regulas]

I really don't understand what the conditions are so that the whole Sun God Throw goes through, what are the conditions?

You start with 0 charges. When you connect the throw the first time it does one hit of damage and gains one charge. Second throw gives another charge and a second hit of damage during the throw. Same with the third thow, now dealing maximum damage, the third throw also tosses them away from you. Once you reach three charges you stay at three charges and three hits on every subsequent sun throw unless you use your other sun special to trade all the charges you have for meter or hp at which point you start over. That burn move gives you meter for the regular version or HP if you EX it based on whatever charge level you were at.

Also note charges carry over from one round to the next. You can vaguely tell what charge you have based on how bright yellow your tattoos glow.

 

[RYX]

So what do you guys think about ending with throw? It's good damage, you can choose which way you throw them, and you get a free totem/cash out off it

Something like f1b2 xx Crystal Totem f1b2 xx ex.DF1 f.2 throw will net you 39% (2% less than the uppercut ender) and the totem times out immediately after the throw completes, letting you set up another one guaranteed. You can also EX sun disc and it'll hit them meaty, so you can run in with some cover or throw something out

I'm gonna try and center my game around throws for a while. I'm really hype about it lol

 

[Tomo009]

They can be teched, but for not War God that is probably a good option. Even for War God it might be a good idea to push for the corner then throw out a sword.

 

[RYX]

They can be teched, but for not War God that is probably a good option. Even for War God it might be a good idea to push for the corner then throw out a sword.

at least they have to guess it

And if they're going in the direction you want them to you can uppercut them for more damage

also our air throw is -2 on hit and its hitbox is stupidly awful, what's up with this

 

[Hellbringer]

Another thing i noticed is when

So what do you guys think about ending with throw? It's good damage, you can choose which way you throw them, and you get a free totem/cash out off it

Something like f1b2 xx Crystal Totem f1b2 xx ex.DF1 f.2 throw will net you 39% (2% less than the uppercut ender) and the totem times out immediately after the throw completes, letting you set up another one guaranteed. You can also EX sun disc and it'll hit them meaty, so you can run in with some cover or throw something out

I'm gonna try and center my game around throws for a while. I'm really hype about it lol

I think bloodtotem can actually be of use here because you will guarantee get life back if they dont tech the throw.

 

[RYX]

Another thing i noticed is when

I think bloodtotem can actually be of use here because you will guarantee get life back if they dont tech the throw.

I noticed that too

Since you're not starting the combo with totem already up, though, you're getting a lot less for it. You only get 20% of the damage you deal as life returned but even the small 5% you get back counts for something.

It helps that you get some of your meter back as well but until they fix it, maybe buff the meter vamp, I think the reduced damage output will serve us better at the moment

 

[KeyserSoze]

So what do you guys think about ending with throw? It's good damage, you can choose which way you throw them, and you get a free totem/cash out off it

Something like f1b2 xx Crystal Totem f1b2 xx ex.DF1 f.2 throw will net you 39% (2% less than the uppercut ender) and the totem times out immediately after the throw completes, letting you set up another one guaranteed. You can also EX sun disc and it'll hit them meaty, so you can run in with some cover or throw something out

I'm gonna try and center my game around throws for a while. I'm really hype about it lol

I think it's pretty clever. I'm gonna have to play around with this, myself.

 

[RYX]

I think it's pretty clever. I'm gonna have to play around with this, myself.

you should note that you're still at advantage if you do it in the corner; ie they have to respect your poke/strings or another throw unless they have an armored wakeup

You have to do it at the earliest possible frame for proper advantage but when you get it down it's pretty tight

 

[KeyserSoze]

playing Jason makes me wish I could throw all my totems up at once, lol

Obsidian totem is pretty baller. It's really not like a "match-up specific thing," it just works fantastic vs everyone thanks to reducing combo damage and chip. I still lament that it doesn't grant him armor but damage mitigation to the level that Kotal has is plenty good enough.

So, what do you guys think are his major issues that can be reasonably adjusted with patches? Right now, my main concerns are Sun Ray's recovery and the risk-reward of some of his strings

I sincerely think Kotal is mostly fine, as is. I think his damage and overall whiff-punishing options are insane and War God has enough mix-ups to make him competitive against just about any other character in the game. The only thing I will continue to hope for is a reduction in the recovery frames of Sun Ray/God Ray, ESPECIALLY for Sun God and Blood God. As you alluded to earlier, playing Jason and using his healing buff really makes it obvious how inadequately slow to recover Sun Ray and God Ray are. If Sun Ray/God Ray had a more consistent utility, I think Sun God and Blood God would be set.

 

[RYX]

I sincerely think Kotal is mostly fine, as is. I think his damage and overall whiff-punishing options are insane and War God has enough mix-ups to make him competitive against just about any other character in the game. The only thing I will continue to hope for is a reduction in the recovery frames of Sun Ray/God Ray, ESPECIALLY for Sun God and Blood God. As you alluded to earlier, playing Jason and using his healing buff really makes it obvious how inadequately slow to recover Sun Ray and God Ray are. If Sun Ray/God Ray had a more consistent utility, I think Sun God and Blood God would be set.

I think his strings need some touching up as well. F34 should just be a launcher since it's like -17 on block. There's no reason it shouldn't cancel faster so that he can EX air throw. Speaking of, this move is just horrible outside of extending his combos. The range is abysmal and it's -2 on hit if you don't EX it, I don't understand the trend of making moves - on hit. At least we're not Mileena, am I right boys

Personally I think Blood God could use a touch up as well but he'll be fine as long as his main strings are good and he can safely set up some totems. I still want an armor totem tho

 

[Crayraven]

Another thing i noticed is when

I think bloodtotem can actually be of use here because you will guarantee get life back if they dont tech the throw.

Its still useless, because blood totem is bugged. I want to make something understood to those who do not know:

Blood totem does not give health back if you do not do damage. There is a health cap, around 20% I believe. The damage you deal is converted to the amount of health you receive when the totem expires. This applies to the meter you gain from it as well. So if you summon blood totem and get a throw in and some how blood totem doesn't vanish. You won't be getting much health or meter back in return.

 

[Hellbringer]

Its still useless, because blood totem is bugged. I want to make something understood to those who do not know:

Blood totem does not give health back if you do not do damage. There is a health cap, around 20% I believe. The damage you deal is converted to the amount of health you receive when the totem expires. This applies to the meter you gain from it as well. So if you summon blood totem and get a throw in and some how blood totem doesn't vanish. You won't be getting much health or meter back in return.

But you are doing damage cause you use it during a combo.
You do something like f1b2~bloodtotem, d1, df1 ex airgrab, f2, grab. The totem ends same time your combo ends

 

[Crayraven]

But you are doing damage cause you use it during a combo.
You do something like f1b2~bloodtotem, d1, df1 ex airgrab, f2, grab. The totem ends same time your combo ends

What if you get hit right after you summon blood totem?

 

[RYX]

What if you get hit right after you summon blood totem?

But the string he listed involves doing the totem mid combo

 

[Crayraven]

But the string he listed involves doing the totem mid combo

Ah I see, I'll give it a try then.

 

[AcMilan91]

can someone post some guide of kothal kahn video? his normals are good? i am interested in kothal kahn war god,my main is jax

 

[John Grizzly]

Have you guys explored using D+3 as an anti-air? It seems to be a really good option. You can go right into B+1,2 after it hits for a full combo:

D+3, B+1,2,2~D,F+2 (21% meterless)

D+3, B+1,2~D,F+1(EX), B1,2,2~D,B+1 (33% one bar)

 

[Second Saint]

can someone post some guide of kothal kahn video? his normals are good? i am interested in kothal kahn war god,my main is jax

I don't know any video guides, but a few basics for you:

• His pokes (d1, d3, d4) are some of the best in the game. Very fast, and all safe except d4. D3 is also a pretty good AA.
  
• You can make all his strings safe in War God by canceling into df2 or db3 cancel. The db3 cancel also have the benefit of being a mixup in and of itself by either being safe or going into an unblockable.
• b122, b14, and 114 are good pressure strings. 114 is safe by itself, the others need to be canceled into safe specials.
• Your db1 and db2 are overhead/low respectively. Neither of them are safe (including EX db1 despite what in game frame data says), but these turn any hit in your strings into potential mixups.
• Your ex df3 is ridiculously plus, but you lose access to sword based specials for a short time after doing it. However, if you run in after ending a block string in EX df3, you can do 114~df1, which is safe, on hit leads to your highest damaging combo with 1 bar, and on block is safe and gains back about half a bar. Very good pressure tool.
• You want to end your damaging combos if df2. This gives you slightly less damage, but is a hard knock down and much better oki set up.

Not exactly comprehensive, but this should get you started. I hope you like the character.

Have you guys explored using D+3 as an anti-air? It seems to be a really good option. You can go right into B+1,2 after it hits for a full combo:

D+3, B+1,2,2~D,F+2 (21% meterless)

D+3, B+1,2~D,F+1(EX), B1,2,2~D,B+1 (33% one bar)

I actually posted about this not too long ago in the combo thread. You can actually get some really ridiculous stuff off that, depending on what height you hit people at. Here's the post.

So, after getting blown up by a friend of mine that decided to jump all day, I found kotal's d2...lacking. It just didn't have the right shaped hit box to hit crossup jumps consistently, and I wasn't having any better luck with his air throw. I decided to go to lab and see what I could find and, as it turns out, d3 is a really good AA.

It's 6 frames, it lowers his hit box, it hits surprisingly high, and I can combo off of it.

War God Meterless:
d3, 1, f1b2~df2 (20% hkd)
d3, 1, b122~db1 (21%)
You have to hit them while still pretty high in the air for these next ones to work.
d3, 1, f2, f1b2~df2 (25% hkd)
d3, 1, f2, b122~db1 (27%)

1bar:
d3, b14~EX df1, f1b2~df2 (33% hkd)
d3, b14~EX df1, b122, db1 (35%)
d3, EX df1, f2, f1b2~df2 (34% hkd)
d3, EX df1, f2 b122~db1 (36%)

I tried comboing EX airgrab off the meterless combos with f2, but the gravity gets too high and I can't make the enders connect, though this doesn't mean it's impossible. I listed the 1 bar version with b14 in it because, while slightly less damage, it gives much more time to hit confirm, than going straight to the EX airgrab. As someone who sucks at hit confirming, this seems worth mentioning. (EDIT: I just found out you don't have to cancel the airgrab from d3, so I guess the part about hit confirming is redundant)

Sun God level 3 choke (Meterless):
d3, b14~db2 (23%)
d3, 1, f2, b14~db2 (29%)

1 bar:
d3, b14~ex df1, b14~db2 (37%)
d3, 1, f2, b14~EX df1, b14~db2 (39%)

 

[Harry Otter]

Could someone PLEASE point me to some channels with good Sun and Blood god variations kicking ass?

I can win all day with Wargod but once I stay out that variation I dunno what to do XD.

Yes I accidentally picked blood and went full retard a match and got bodied.

 

[Harry Otter]

Also made a vid lol
Kotal is fun.

 

[John Grizzly]

@Second Saint I had no idea it was already posted in the combo thread. I figured this would be the thread to check for it. Anyway, that's some great stuff and I'm happy that it actually is viable and it wasn't just me. I tried it off all jumping attacks against a few characters and it worked flawlessly on all of them. I hope to see people using this more.

It was great to see two Kotals in top 16 at Texas Showdown yesterday, also.

 

[Hellbringer]

@Second Saint I had no idea it was already posted in the combo thread. I figured this would be the thread to check for it. Anyway, that's some great stuff and I'm happy that it actually is viable and it wasn't just me. I tried it off all jumping attacks against a few characters and it worked flawlessly on all of them. I hope to see people using this more.

It was great to see two Kotals in top 16 at Texas Showdown yesterday, also.

Against some characters like sub zero this doesnt work unfortunatly. I havent tested with all characters tough but im planning to make a video about it with all characters.
Against sub you can use standing 2 tough but the timing is a little bit stricter but it works really well.

 

[AcMilan91]

I don't know any video guides, but a few basics for you:

• His pokes (d1, d3, d4) are some of the best in the game. Very fast, and all safe except d4. D3 is also a pretty good AA.
  
• You can make all his strings safe in War God by canceling into df2 or db3 cancel. The db3 cancel also have the benefit of being a mixup in and of itself by either being safe or going into an unblockable.
• b122, b14, and 114 are good pressure strings. 114 is safe by itself, the others need to be canceled into safe specials.
• Your db1 and db2 are overhead/low respectively. Neither of them are safe (including EX db1 despite what in game frame data says), but these turn any hit in your strings into potential mixups.
• Your ex df3 is ridiculously plus, but you lose access to sword based specials for a short time after doing it. However, if you run in after ending a block string in EX df3, you can do 114~df1, which is safe, on hit leads to your highest damaging combo with 1 bar, and on block is safe and gains back about half a bar. Very good pressure tool.
• You want to end your damaging combos if df2. This gives you slightly less damage, but is a hard knock down and much better oki set up.

Not exactly comprehensive, but this should get you started. I hope you like the character.




I actually posted about this not too long ago in the combo thread. You can actually get some really ridiculous stuff off that, depending on what height you hit people at. Here's the post.

can u write me some mid and corner combos?