General/Other - D'Vorah D'Vorah General Discussion Thread

[DoctorMario]

what kind of mixup game does SQ have ? Her lows dont really combo..What am I missing ?

 

[HoneyBee]

So not sure if this is known but NRS mixed up the frame data on her bug burst move in Venomous. Normal one is -20 on block and EX one is +25.

Venomous Variation

Not sure if anyone tested to find out what the real frame data is. I did and found that if you use her bug spray for 1 hit only as close as possible to the opponent and it's blocked, you're at -19. If you're just a little bit away and you use only 1 hit of bug spray on block, you're at -18 or -17.

If you use 2-10 hits of bug spray on block at a distance as close as possible to the opponent, you're at -18 or -17 as well. If you're at max range, you're around -15.

It works the same for both EX and non EX versions.

I tested it against Sonya's energy blast and found that the above mentioned made me either safe or unsafe. Her energy blast is 18 start up frames.

The fact that you can choose how long you want to hold it can make it hard to punish though.

 

[AK partyeagle]

what kind of mixup game does SQ have ? Her lows dont really combo..What am I missing ?

you dont need lows that can combo, what you need in a low is something that makes the other player want to duck. d4 and b1,4 do great jobs at making the opponent want to hold down back. its not about a vortex, its about conditioning .

 

[chemist4hire]

what kind of mixup game does SQ have ? Her lows dont really combo..What am I missing ?

You have to do normal delayed string cancels. For example take advantage of the hit advantage on b1, wait till you recover but they are still in hit stun and enter a combo starter string like 212. Your timing has to be tight. You cannot enter the string to early other wise you will get the b1,2 string and you cannot enter the string too late because they will be able to block it. Look at the frame data and try to find those holes and exploit it.

 

[HoneyBee]

what kind of mixup game does SQ have ? Her lows dont really combo..What am I missing ?

you dont need lows that can combo, what you need in a low is something that makes the other player want to duck. d4 and b1,4 do great jobs at making the opponent want to hold down back. its not about a vortex, its about conditioning .

Technically, her B1xx bug cancel xx 11B2 can combo into more than 20% damage but it's not easy. But yeah, partyeagle is right. Good use of her D4 and her other lows can go a long way in conditioning your opponent to block low, giving you the ability to mix them up.

 

[mountlover]

what kind of mixup game does SQ have ? Her lows dont really combo..What am I missing ?

She has one really important low that combo's, it's called swarm vortex.

 

[DoctorMario]

She has one really important low that combo's, it's called swarm vortex.

I know that swarm vortex is an important low but takes a long time to come out. You cant throw it out naked.

 

[Krackatoa]

Huh. So this could be useful.

Who wants to buffer a low-invincible counterpoke during stand block? I certainly do. If U+3 goes invincible on frame 1, this is super good against a lot of strings in the game.

Cross reference with this: http://testyourmight.com/threads/list-of-all-interruptible-strings-in-mkx.50196/#post-1675505

And any mixups that involve special cancels into lows, where the overhead option is a tight string.

EDIT: Just tested. U+3 is NOT invincible on frame 1. :< (Was testing against Meaty Inferno Scorpion Low Demon Summon)

 

[The PantyChrist]

Her u3 is low invincible?

 

[Krackatoa]

Her u3 is low invincible?

Yeye.

She has one really important low that combo's, it's called swarm vortex.

Swarm Vortex isn't a mixup. Swarm Vortex sets up mixups. Good players will block it every time without fail.

However, you can setup some pretty hard-to-block low/highs, a la Doomsday, if they don't delay wakeup.

D'vorah's lack of easy low damage is the only thing keeping her honest. However, on hit, d4 xx Vortex won't allow them to escape, I think. This let's you keep harassing them. Force them to eat a low 4 times in a row. When they finally crack, hit them overhead with f22 for 35%

 

[DoctorMario]

Yeye.



Swarm Vortex isn't a mixup. Swarm Vortex sets up mixups. Good players will block it every time without fail.

However, you can setup some pretty hard-to-block low/highs, a la Doomsday, if they don't delay wakeup.

D'vorah's lack of easy low damage is the only thing keeping her honest. However, on hit, d4 xx Vortex won't allow them to escape, I think. This let's you keep harassing them. Force them to eat a low 4 times in a row. When they finally crack, hit them overhead with f22 for 35%

How does her F22 combo ?

 

[HoneyBee]

How does her F22 combo ?

In Swarm Queen variation:

F22 xx bug cancel xx 212 etc. for a full combo. I do a bnb for 32% off of it.

 

[EtherealOmni]

So I have been messing with dvorah since day one and I honestly think that the bug burst should be high...F2,2qcf1 is WAY too much +. you have to armor out of the mix up. The mix up being is she gonna hold it or not. The frame data states that its +25 and i would not care at all if it was high but it being a mid is absurd. I definitely agree that NRS might have mixed up the data. The normal version should be -25 and the EX should be+25 and mid.

 

[Zoidberg747]

So I have been messing with dvorah since day one and I honestly think that the bug burst should be high...F2,2qcf1 is WAY too much +. you have to armor out of the mix up. The mix up being is she gonna hold it or not. The frame data states that its +25 and i would not care at all if it was high but it being a mid is absurd. I definitely agree that NRS might have mixed up the data. The normal version should be -25 and the EX should be+25 and mid.

It would be maybe(MAYBE) too much if it was actually plus 25. But as stated before in the thread, it is actually -25 and extremely punishable.

 

[The PantyChrist]

So I have been messing with dvorah since day one and I honestly think that the bug burst should be high...F2,2qcf1 is WAY too much +. you have to armor out of the mix up. The mix up being is she gonna hold it or not. The frame data states that its +25 and i would not care at all if it was high but it being a mid is absurd. I definitely agree that NRS might have mixed up the data. The normal version should be -25 and the EX should be+25 and mid.

most characters would kill for those frames

 

[EtherealOmni]

Alright, my bad. I didn't see someone say that. Gonna have to hit the lab on that then.

 

[HoneyBee]

So I have been messing with dvorah since day one and I honestly think that the bug burst should be high...F2,2qcf1 is WAY too much +. you have to armor out of the mix up. The mix up being is she gonna hold it or not. The frame data states that its +25 and i would not care at all if it was high but it being a mid is absurd. I definitely agree that NRS might have mixed up the data. The normal version should be -25 and the EX should be+25 and mid.

Not only is the bug spray punishable in both the ex and non ex version (it's about -17), f22xxbugspray can be interrupted by an armor move.

 

[AK partyeagle]

Okay guys, I am at work , so I can't really work on a post right now, but what kind of pressure strings have you guys been working on? I have been working on things like f11 db1 into b23 db1 then either f22 or d4 . you have plenty of mix up opportunity and it is incredibly hard to push buttons out of (besides armor moves) but you can mix that up with stinger and finishing the strings as well to keep them from pushing buttons.

And on hit, since I suck at bug cancels I have been doing f22 db4 the immediately doing db1 . they have to block on wake up and if they try to armor out you are safe ( at least against subz MB slide, haven't got to test too much)

I think the key to her getting real DMG in this game is going to rely on abusing the +frames on db1 . anyone else have any strings to share ? ( I eventually plan onaking a thread with the gaps, when they have to eat it , etc)

 

[TopTierHarley]

Not only is the bug spray punishable in both the ex and non ex version (it's about -17), f22xxbugspray can be interrupted by an armor move.

Thank you. I have no idea what he is talking about.

 

[chemist4hire]

Okay guys, I am at work , so I can't really work on a post right now, but what kind of pressure strings have you guys been working on? I have been working on things like f11 db1 into b23 db1 then either f22 or d4 . you have plenty of mix up opportunity and it is incredibly hard to push buttons out of (besides armor moves) but you can mix that up with stinger and finishing the strings as well to keep them from pushing buttons.

And on hit, since I suck at bug cancels I have been doing f22 db4 the immediately doing db1 . they have to block on wake up and if they try to armor out you are safe ( at least against subz MB slide, haven't got to test too much)

I think the key to her getting real DMG in this game is going to rely on abusing the +frames on db1 . anyone else have any strings to share ? ( I eventually plan onaking a thread with the gaps, when they have to eat it , etc)

Are you saying db1 (from the deep swarm) is safe on block? Cause it seems punishable to me at that range. What reversals are you using to test this?

Edit: I think I know what you are saying. You are saying f11 swarm vortex on block is a non interruptable combo, so the plus frames on blocked vortex is enough to maintan pressure. But it wont work with f2,2 vortex because that can be interupted before vortex.

 

[TopTierHarley]

Okay guys, I am at work , so I can't really work on a post right now, but what kind of pressure strings have you guys been working on? I have been working on things like f11 db1 into b23 db1 then either f22 or d4 . you have plenty of mix up opportunity and it is incredibly hard to push buttons out of (besides armor moves) but you can mix that up with stinger and finishing the strings as well to keep them from pushing buttons.

And on hit, since I suck at bug cancels I have been doing f22 db4 the immediately doing db1 . they have to block on wake up and if they try to armor out you are safe ( at least against subz MB slide, haven't got to test too much)

I think the key to her getting real DMG in this game is going to rely on abusing the +frames on db1 . anyone else have any strings to share ? ( I eventually plan onaking a thread with the gaps, when they have to eat it , etc)

Pretty much her F1 strings into wasp cancels. Her 212/21 Swarm vortex. Also for good knockdown pressure after you hit 212 Swarm vortex, you do B21 Swarm vortex for a hkd into a meaty low which stuffs non ex wake ups. This is all in SQ I mind you. Haven't messed around with Venomous enough to give pressure advice and options.

 

[chemist4hire]

Pretty much her F1 strings into wasp cancels. Her 212/21 Swarm vortex. Also for good knockdown pressure after you hit 212 Swarm vortex, you do B21 Swarm vortex for a hkd into a meaty low which stuffs non ex wake ups. This is all in SQ I mind you. Haven't messed around with Venomous enough to give pressure advice and options.

I am so confused right now. df1 is wasp cancel and db1 is swarm from the deep right? What you are saying makes sense, what party eagle is saying doesnt make sense. Maybe I have the motions confused in my head.

Edit: I think I get what he is saying now.

 

[AK partyeagle]

Chemist, yea what I am trying to say is there are certain strings that on block can't be interrupted into db1 in SQ or else they eat the launch and you get a small combo. Some they can , that's why you mix in moves like stinger and other parts of strings to discourage them mashing out of the interruptible strings.

Its all about conditioning basically. Her mix ups are not that great but her ability to condition players into a place you want them is fantastic.

The set up I was talking about is when you land f22 db4 you have a tight window that where if you enter a db1 it is meaty and they must block on wake up. If they get cute and try to armor through you are safe and can usually punish with your hardest hitting combo.

 

[ChatterBox]

I've been playing mostly brood mother, and I use pretty similar tactics. F112 into bug cancel back dash. Then F11xx spawning puddle. F2XXkrawler. There is a lot of conditioning, telling the opponent that they will have a chance to push a button then changing that timing to give you a combo or more free pressure.

In venomous it's just all stagger strings and using hit advantage on pokes to scare people. D4 and D3 and F2 add up so fast that opponents usually freak out. Then you hit them with a big 212 punish when they throw out armor in a panic.

 

[KNX]

Starting to feel @Krayzie 's pain in the Kano matchup.

Just got done in a long set vs Cybernetic Kano... lost about 15-7 -_-

Thing is, when he was full screen throwing knives, I felt helpless. I was taking mad chip damage, while he built a ton of meter. Recovery was so fast that Swarm wasn't even reliable for a trade option outside of bad knife throws, and jumping just feels like a terrible idea, even though you do need to jump sometimes. Anti-airing was difficult because he could use Air Ball to change his trajectory. He has the pokes and walkspeed to play footsies with her also, he can get in there, poke with d+3 and get out just as quickly, or frame trap you, make you press a bad button then easy whiff punish. Only saving grace is that his damage doesn't compare if you can Wasp Cancel, but that's a really small weakness for all the strengths he has.

Has anyone, anyone at all, got any ideas how you'd go about playing this matchup? (maybe I should make a matchup thread, but I haven't been playing D'Vorah long enough to have anything too useful atm)