MB Corner Escapes

[FCP/EMP SCAR]

Going through the old video of the first MKX stream, It brought my attention back to use of being able to meter burn the corner to get what looks like a guaranteed way out of the corner, Idk how I feel about it, maybe its MKX answer to injustices pushblock mechanic, what would make this acceptable to me, is a way to punish the move if its read with a slam dunk NJP, that way the opponent would have to think of a perfect time to use the move, rather then just doing it whenever they want, if it has super armor like injustice MB interactables moves that would suck...does anyone else have a quarrel with this particular mechanic?

 

[Johnny San]

I haven't seen it firsthand, but if it is as you say, I'd have a problem.

The corner is pretty much the only place where one would be at a serious disadvantage in MK given the block button and such. At least, that's how I feel about it.

 

[KiD INsAnitY]

Yea I felt some type of way about that too. Not sure if I like that, Have to see more on it.

 

[Wemfs]

I'm not really a fan of an easy way out of the corner tbh. I'm sure there will be ways to punish their get out of jail free attempts, but still. I don't know yet.

 

[trufenix]

spending a bar of meter and a bar of stamina is easy?

 

[Amplified$hotz]

If meter isn't like candy then the opponent will already be sacrificing something important to get out. I hope you can punish it tho. And yeah super armor would be cheeks.

 

[Fractured_Shadow]

As someone who plans to zone HEAVILY, I approve of all corner escapes. Man... everybody is Freddy xD

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

spending a bar of meter and a bar of stamina is easy?

As someone who plans to zone HEAVILY, I approve of all corner escapes. Man... everybody is Freddy xD

haha I can respect this. Just don't be like m2dave and punish ppl with d2s or something like that

 

[Wemfs]

As someone who plans to zone HEAVILY, I approve of all corner escapes. Man... everybody is Freddy xD

I'm hoping that character with the bow or w/e is a zoner type. I'm sure he will be.

 

[TheTetraSpirit]

I don't care if you can armor it or not, I just want them to be fairly negative after they land so they can be punished if I call them on using it.

 

[Shark Tank]

I was considering making a thread about this a while ago but said fuck it I shouldn't, but since you did...

I would have no problem with this if you can make a read on it...however

@Doombawkz (if I'm wrong about details feel free to blow me up) , when asked about it when he played, stated that the move had armor all the way through when landing and the landing was extremely quick to recover. That doesn't sit well with me. I'm a firm believer in the real estate battle for fighting games and giving a move armor like that and making it safe i feel is an extremely brain dead way of pretty much getting out of a real estate war that you lost. Kinda like Ryu/Ken tatsu out of the corner that had to get nerfed but better in some ways. But I'm also concerned about big body characters who(should hopefully) work to put you in the corner, then you mb out and they now have to go through a maze of crap to get you again in a really frustrating goose chase. If meter comes easy in this game I can easily foresee it becoming a matchup issue.

I didn't make a thread because it was a pretty early build so I'm not concerning myself with pax builds and shit. But hypothetically, if it did make it into the game in that form,, which I don't think it will, I'd be concerned.

EDIT, and if costs stamina meter, I'm less concerned.

 

[BigMilk]

I feel like, normally should be punishable, using a bar should make it somewhat safer, as long as you are rewarded somehow for making the correct read it's ok with me. Keep in mind, I played and plan on playing someone who never has/had to deal w extreme accounts of corner pressure

 

[MKF30]

I fully support use of a bar of meter guaranteed to get your ass out of the corner and be safe on land, why should anyone be trapped in the corner the entire game? If anything not being able to escape would be stupid.

 

[KiD INsAnitY]

I fully support use of a bar of meter guaranteed to get your ass out of the corner and be safe on land, why should anyone be trapped in the corner the entire game? If anything not being able to escape would be stupid.

If you get trapped in the corner and can't figure away out then you deserve to die ohwell not the other players fault...They put this in for casuals that would have a hard time with being trapped in the corner..Fighting games are not as unforgiving as they used to be (Specially MK) because they want more causal players to stick around longer but I feel somethings shouldn't change like the corner game..

 

[Wemfs]

I fully support use of a bar of meter guaranteed to get your ass out of the corner and be safe on land, why should anyone be trapped in the corner the entire game? If anything not being able to escape would be stupid.

You get out of the corner by making correct reads. Nobody is trapped in the corner for the entire match. There are many ways out.

 

[MKF30]

If you get trapped in the corner and can't figure away out then you deserve to die ohwell not the other players fault...They put this in for casuals that would have a hard time with being trapped in the corner..Fighting games are not as unforgiving as they used to be (Specially MK) because they want more causal players to stick around longer but I feel somethings shouldn't change like the corner game..

Don't get me wrong, I'm not casual I'm just pointing out that NRS cares about balance, not exploits. As a zoning player I rarely ever get or find myself in the corner or being locked down, my point is if say they had no option to get out of the corner threads like this wouldn't be made and you'd have players just set on locking someone in the corner then the match is over(regardless of skill level) I'm sure high level players will use this too, nobody wants to be trapped in the corner. Do you remember Cage in MK9? I remember Cage players that's all they'd try to do to me and fail because I'd zoned them 99% of the time but just saying it's better to have the option there than not.

You get out of the corner by making correct reads. Nobody is trapped in the corner for the entire match. There are many ways out.

Of course, but I'm saying it's better to have this option than not otherwise say this wasn't in the game reads and situations in the corner would be irrelevant and someone would find something to exploit in the corner and they'd have to tweak it. A newer player or casual player won't want to hear that or understand that. Example, MK9 I trained a few friends and one gave up completely when he ran into Cage players because they'd always frame trap in the corner. I think it's a fair tradeoff so long as you have meter to get of the cornertrap pressure/trouble. Just think, sure you get out of the corner but it's not exactly free. It'll cost you meter.

To me it's fair, if it didn't cost meter at all and granted invincibility frames on the guy being trapped I could see corner pressure being pointless.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I fully support use of a bar of meter guaranteed to get your ass out of the corner and be safe on land, why should anyone be trapped in the corner the entire game? If anything not being able to escape would be stupid.

There is a reason why corner advantage is a thing in fighting games.

If you put your opponent in the corner, you have all the space in the game to avoid his attack and counter at will, while he doesn't because he ran out of space to walk backwards. It doesn't mean they are trapped forever, but requires a bit of more intelligence and effort to battle out of the corner, basically it makes you an educated player. If the character you main is a nightmare against someone that plays like Brady's Sub-0 for example who plays backwards the whole game, having him in the corner is a balanced trade, if Tom can simply MB out of the corner after spending 30 seconds running away from you with life lead its because the game design is flawed

We saw this with Kabal in MK9, he spends half of the game firing gas blast with multiple purposes:
1. Keep you off him
2. Building meter for breaker
3. Giving you a hard time to get in

Avoiding Kabal's meta was a nightmare, and not all the entire cast could do at great effort, and when they did got the advantage after 30 secods trying to get in, Kabal would just break, Nomad Dash away and repeat the process 1,2,3 until your frustration control reaches the breaking point.


Am all in favor that 60% of the MKX mechanics should be part risk, part reward, no one should have safe 50-50 mixups, no one should have safe armored launchers, no one should have escape option without drawbacks, no one should have all the advantage in all tools, this makes some battles too much one sided when these conditions aren't met.

 

[MKF30]

There is a reason why corner advantage is a thing in fighting games.

If you put your opponent in the corner, you have all the space in the game to avoid his attack and counter at will, while he doesn't because he ran out of space to walk backwards. It doesn't mean they are trapped forever, but requires a bit of more intelligence and effort to battle out of the corner, basically it makes you an educated player. If the character you main is a nightmare against someone that plays like Brady's Sub-0 for example who plays backwards the whole game, having him in the corner is a balanced trade, if Tom can simply MB out of the corner after spending 30 seconds running away from you with life lead its because the game design is flawed

We saw this with Kabal in MK9, he spends half of the game firing gas blast with multiple purposes:
1. Keep you off him
2. Building meter for breaker
3. Giving you a hard time to get in

Avoiding Kabal's meta was a nightmare, and not all the entire cast could do at great effort, and when they did got the advantage after 30 secods trying to get in, Kabal would just break, Nomad Dash away and repeat the process 1,2,3 until your frustration control reaches the breaking point.


Am all in favor that 60% of the MKX mechanics should be part risk, part reward, no one should have safe 50-50 mixups, no one should have safe armored launchers, no one should have escape option without drawbacks, no one should have all the advantage in all tools, this makes some battles too much one sided when these conditions aren't met.

I get that there's a corner advantage in fighters that's just my my point though, but you're referring to the strategic element of the corner. I am not disputing that i'm saying the guy in the corner should have a tool to escape in a case where hes liiterally trapped be it subs clone or cage, kabals frame traps thats exactly my point. In that particular instance they are trapped forever because you cant move in that situaton literally cant move, to me winning like that is weak, its one thing to get the guy in the corner or near for field advantage, another to abuse a broken mechanic to keep him trapped there. As you said yourself facing a kabal for example in the corner you have little to no hope in mk9 via his dash cancel in that instance, all the defensive guy has is breaker. To me being able to trap someone like that deeming the guy in the corner with little to no options is a flawed element and I think nrs realized that from mk9 with guys like kabal, cage etc

Just want to point out regarding the gas blasts for building meter a lot of characters could build meter easily with certain moves, I'll admit i did it all the time with ermacs fireball and sektor's missiles. kabal, kl etc were just great because they had lot more tools

Regarding kabal you get no argument from me dude, its why i had said from day one when i saw how good he was he didnt even need the dash cancel. his zoning tools ,saws, gas blasts, spin tactics were more than enough.

I'm all for logical tactics with zoning,corner pressure etc i'm just saying im also for balanced tools that should be given to both players regarding every situation.

 

[FCP/EMP SCAR]

I get that there's a corner advantage in fighters that's just my my point though, but you're referring to the strategic element of the corner. I am not disputing that i'm saying the guy in the corner should have a tool to escape in a case where hes liiterally trapped be it subs clone or cage, kabals frame traps thats exactly my point. In that particular instance they are trapped forever because you cant move in that situaton literally cant move, to me winning like that is weak, its one thing to get the guy in the corner or near for field advantage, another to abuse a broken mechanic to keep him trapped there. As you said yourself facing a kabal for example in the corner you have little to no hope in mk9 via his dash cancel in that instance, all the defensive guy has is breaker. To me being able to trap someone like that deeming the guy in the corner with little to no options is a flawed element and I think nrs realized that from mk9 with guys like kabal, cage etc

Just want to point out regarding the gas blasts for building meter a lot of characters could build meter easily with certain moves, I'll admit i did it all the time with ermacs fireball and sektor's missiles. kabal, kl etc were just great because they had lot more tools

Regarding kabal you get no argument from me dude, its why i had said from day one when i saw how good he was he didnt even need the dash cancel. his zoning tools ,saws, gas blasts, spin tactics were more than enough.

I'm all for logical tactics with zoning,corner pressure etc i'm just saying im also for balanced tools that should be given to both players regarding every situation.

I see your using MK9 alot to support ur debate to why the mechanic may be justified, but this is MKX and we have no clue how good certain characters will control the corner game, or if they will have broken strats to lockdown an cornered opponent indefinitely, this is yet to be seen, what is important to note here is that in a fighting game everything must have a consequence as well as a benefit when used right or wrong, and to have a mechanic with a benefit with no consequence takes away from the experience and competitiveness of the game, no one wants to work hard with a rush down character half the match to corner a strong zoner just so they can MB a move that guarantees them freedom of the corner with little recovery to begin a strategy that shifts the momentum of the match back in their favor.



If you plan on playing this game competitively it shouldn't hurt u to have to think about the consequences of spending a bar of meter and risking if ur opponent will make a read on ur escape or not, the MB corner move imo should have 1 hit of armor (on start up) when activated, I say that because of the speed of the animation when the opponent jumps out, after that the user should be subjectable to a punish if he does it raw with the opponent in his face, or slightly spaced out controlling space and looking for the jump...the move should only be successful with the read of an opponent beginning to start pressure, or an opponent running towards u rushing u down to begin pressure

 

[MKF30]

@FCP/EMP SCAR Ok, fair enough but that also applies to the counterargument, yes? We don't know just how MKX will play yet, though from those who've played it they all have said it feels familiar to mk9, rather than injustice from what I remember people saying on here who've played earlier builds at least.

As far as the mechanic is concerned though, I'm just for a balanced game for both players and not just one regardless of who they pick and what their play style is. Remember there is the addition of the run now too which will help rushdown style players no doubt, while zoners will look to take advantage of things to keep them far from their opponent. I also seem to remember during the first stream paulo, derek and the other dude saying something about each stage will have a different corner element. Some are escapes, others are weapons etc