Scorpion General Discussion

[Matix218]

I'm making the switch to Reborn.
Haven't played nothing but Reborn last couple of days except for the Sonya matchup, since she can't punish a properly spaced Death Spin.

What annoys me is relearning all the combos, and dropping all the kb ones but whatever. It's better than grinding towers all day.

What are some of the bnbs you are using for reborn? I find his combos to be very easy to execute

 

[Hor_PeT]

I do if my Burning Spear is active and if - I'm playing a character that I want to stay away from
- I know my Burning Spear timer is about to deplete

What are some of the bnbs you are using for reborn? I find his combos to be very easy to execute

I am probably the most SR downplayer as I use almost the same for SR and Reborn lol.
Why? Because these combos are break away safe and optimal. So I just skip involving F32 in SR combos unless it is not in juggle.
Only extra for SR that after 2 amplified tele I use 21 2+4 instead of 112 for a bit more damage (and if I am confident I do 21 2+4 in 1 bar combos too after F3 but it is more strict).

And of course in case of DS ender but if the opponent has 2 bars I rarely dare doing it (as I also try to punish it against Scorpion).

 

[spidey300]

I'm still on the fence on which is better between SR and Reborn. The damage output on SR is serious. Significant more damage in combos and throws enhances all faucets of his game. His footsies are better in SR because a whiffed F3 commands more respect and allows him to get in easier. Death Spin as a round ender is nothing to scoff at either. Also F34 has more pushback when your opponent blocks it standing. Something SR forces them to do therefore enhancing the effectiveness of F34.

Reborn has option select off single hit moves like F3 and B2, better mobility and stage control vs everyone in the cast. More of a hit and run style that nobody can stop. Whereas SR is more of a traditional MK11 style and it works because of better footsie options, damage output, and Death Spin. He just has to guess right less often to win.

I'm still trying to learn both. You can't really go wrong with Reborn but I can pull off some quick wins with SR if I get a good beat on someone.

I think it might be entirely matchup dependent and preference.

 

[Hor_PeT]

I'm making the switch to Reborn.
Haven't played nothing but Reborn last couple of days except for the Sonya matchup, since she can't punish a properly spaced Death Spin.

What annoys me is relearning all the combos, and dropping all the kb ones but whatever. It's better than grinding towers all day.

I think (and experienced) tower against AI really affects your gameplay negatively.
I thought at least I can practice bnbs at worst but AI forces you to play in an other way you would play against a human. So terrible to me.

I will not do towers manually even if I am bored. Only watching AI war makes me worse player too lol.

I believe learning "Reborn combos" are the proper way of doing Scorpion combos - so you will be better player overall even with SR after that.
Fortunately I figured it early and did not build bad muscle memory. Only few break away punish convinced me. And the fact that the damage is not that different.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I agree with slips. Searing rage and reborn are effective in specific match ups.

F3 gets much more respect in sr. That's a big deal imo, even if you dont throw out f32. Still you can watch block habits and make a much more calculated decision on when to throw f32 out.

Conditioning is huge in mk11.

 

[NaughtySenpai]

What are some of the bnbs you are using for reborn? I find his combos to be very easy to execute

Any Starter xx db3 amp, f3, 4 xx bf1
where f3 into standing 4 is an absolute bitch against female characters and I just use an easier variation of the combo that loses 1.1% damage.

f34 kb xx db3 amp, dash, f3, 11 xx bf1 amp, 212 kb.
The 11 in this combo also is like a 1 frame link against females because you have to hit the f3 incredibly precise, because if you do it too early the female body is too far away to connect 11 and if you let the dash rock too far, the body will be too low to the ground for 11 to connect so again you have to either have godlike execution or substitute for a lesser combo.

Any Starter xx db3 amp, ji3/4 xx db3 amp, 4 xx bf1
I miss this one a lot against males too because often times I don't get the second amp out because I hit it at the same time as I input the hellport. For whatever reason you can't hit amp at the same time as the special move like in MKX and you have to delay it slightly, which is frustrating with this combo, because you want the amp to happen as soon as you make contact, to keep the body high enough for 4 to easily connect. Again this shit is hell against females.

The only thing I had trouble with against females with SR was f3 into 212+4 after a hellport juggle and just substituted it for 112, every other combo was exactly the same and not much harder to execute.


I don't want to complain too much because it's a practice thing and I'm used to these hitbox issues from other games where you also have combos that don't work on certain characters or only on specific big body characters.

 

[Matix218]

Any Starter xx db3 amp, f3, 4 xx bf1
where f3 into standing 4 is an absolute bitch against female characters and I just use an easier variation of the combo that loses 1.1% damage.

f34 kb xx db3 amp, dash, f3, 11 xx bf1 amp, 212 kb.
The 11 in this combo also is like a 1 frame link against females because you have to hit the f3 incredibly precise, because if you do it too early the female body is too far away to connect 11 and if you let the dash rock too far, the body will be too low to the ground for 11 to connect so again you have to either have godlike execution or substitute for a lesser combo.

Any Starter xx db3 amp, ji3/4 xx db3 amp, 4 xx bf1
I miss this one a lot against males too because often times I don't get the second amp out because I hit it at the same time as I input the hellport. For whatever reason you can't hit amp at the same time as the special move like in MKX and you have to delay it slightly, which is frustrating with this combo, because you want the amp to happen as soon as you make contact, to keep the body high enough for 4 to easily connect. Again this shit is hell against females.

The only thing I had trouble with against females with SR was f3 into 212+4 after a hellport juggle and just substituted it for 112, every other combo was exactly the same and not much harder to execute.


I don't want to complain too much because it's a practice thing and I'm used to these hitbox issues from other games where you also have combos that don't work on certain characters or only on specific big body characters.

My go-to combos are:

1 bar: starter xx ex tele, f3, 112 (or 11~spear depending on if i want side switch or not)

2 bar: starter xx ex tele, jk~ex tele, f3~spear (like 37 pct with a b14 starter)

For f34 kb ill usually follow up with ex spear into either s4 (if i want to do a hella plus restand) or s4~spear (oki), or if I want to burn extra bar, ill end in s4~ex tele, f3, 112 (or 11~spear)

 

[NaughtySenpai]

Yeah you miss a bit of damage there against male characters. I do similar shit vs females.

Don't like using spear in kb combos though, unless I don't want them to breakaway as it scales too much. Otherwise I just use it as an ender to put people in the corner.

 

[Matix218]

Yeah you miss a bit of damage there against male characters. I do similar shit vs females.

I like to keep my combos as consistent as i can even if sacrificing a percent or two. I find getting your followup pressure/oki and never dropping is overall better than hitting 75% of the time but dropping once and getting punished as a result.

I always do a micro dash between f3 and 11 against females in combos too but not required against males. That way my combos are almost the same for both males and females (other than the micro dash)

 

[Hor_PeT]

My go-to combos are:

1 bar: starter xx ex tele, f3, 112 (or 11~spear depending on if i want side switch or not)

2 bar: starter xx ex tele, jk~ex tele, f3~spear (like 37 pct with a b14 starter)

For f34 kb ill usually follow up with ex spear into either s4 (if i want to do a hella plus restand) or s4~spear (oki), or if I want to burn extra bar, ill end in s4~ex tele, f3, 112 (or 11~spear)

F34 KB xx ex spear , S4 xx ex tele, F3, 11 xx spear is not too good for damage: 380 for 2 bars.
While F34 KB xx ex tele, F3, 11 xx spear is 364 for 1 bar (if you skip F3 it is 339).
And if you want more damage you can amp spear into 212 KB for 434 with DOT into BS setup. That might worth that +1 bar.

The difference is that if the opponent breaks away from spear you will be slightly plus with spacing but if the opponent breaks away from teleport you will be in neutral up close (after AMP tele... if you wait for amp you are massive plus). It depends on when the opponent breaks away - with AI test who did perfect asap breakaway was about neutral even after AMP tele.

I always use teleport and usually just 1 bar after KB combos if I do not go to 212 KB. 2nd bar can be used for restand though, too every time - not my style so far but maybe I should use it just I do not really feel the restand power without bar and cut the damage for it.

And maybe 2nd bar can be used for F32xx DS into BS ender which also cuts the damage a bit and you will not have bar but at least you have BS and meterless damage is better.
There is not optimal way as there are guaranteed vs. potential damages, oki vs. restand, etc. So everybody can decide how to play. That's good.

I just saw that D2 KB with 2 bars (into 212 KB) is 49% with dot lol. D2 Kb is very strong even meterless - 1 bar.

 

[Matix218]

F34 KB xx ex spear , S4 xx ex tele, F3, 11 xx spear is not too good for damage: 380 for 2 bars.
While F34 KB xx ex tele, F3, 11 xx spear is 364 for 1 bar (if you skip F3 it is 339).
And if you want more damage you can amp spear into 212 KB for 434 with DOT into BS setup. That might worth that +1 bar.

The difference is that if the opponent breaks away from spear you will be slightly plus with spacing but if the opponent breaks away from teleport you will be in neutral up close (after AMP tele... if you wait for amp you are massive plus). It depends on when the opponent breaks away - with AI test who did perfect asap breakaway was about neutral even after AMP tele.

I always use teleport and usually just 1 bar after KB combos if I do not go to 212 KB. 2nd bar can be used for restand though, too every time - not my style so far but maybe I should use it just I do not really feel the restand power without bar and cut the damage for it.

And maybe 2nd bar can be used for F32xx DS into BS ender which also cuts the damage a bit and you will not have bar but at least you have BS and meterless damage is better.
There is not optimal way as there are guaranteed vs. potential damages, oki vs. restand, etc. So everybody can decide how to play. That's good.

I just saw that D2 KB with 2 bars (into 212 KB) is 49% with dot lol. D2 Kb is very strong even meterless - 1 bar.

What is your d2 kb combo?

 

[Hor_PeT]

What is your d2 kb combo?

D2 kb, S4 amp tele, ender (21 2+4, 112, 11xx spear, etc.)

It can be dropped though if S4 is not in good height need practicing. I drop it sometimes too as it is not a frequent combo I can do.

I am not a good fighter but try to compensate it with lot of practicing and labbing.

 

[Hor_PeT]

Look what I just found lol.

 

[da800don]

I’m really impressed by Scorpions f3. It staggers very well. I can play dirty mind games on my opponent. I can train my opponent to expect a grab after the f3, then finish it with 4 making a krushing blow (assuming they attack, or grab tech). Searing rage adds another element to it. Burning spear adds an extra 30 to throw damage (170) and the added move further conditions the opponent. (F32) It is very fun and satisfying. It also gives people a hard time when they expect you to spam teleports all day, where instead you’re in their face. My strategy? Read and punish an unsafe attack they do with a hell port AMP, and do a large combo. 9 times outta 10, they’re gonna escape out of that which will use all their defense meter. Then I just stagger with f3 into grab, f3, f34, f32 until their defense meter is back up. This also goes without saying, maintain your footsies as well. This method has bagged some games for me. I’ll try and post a vid later of real gameplay. As we all know, there is no silver bullet. We must adapt to the situation. You win games when your opponent cannot adapt to you. So it’s good to have a lot of variety in your play style.

Shot out to @Grizzwald304

 

[spidey300]

remember how they gave erron a bullet indicator on his rifle? how about a burning spear meter for scorpion?

 

[Hor_PeT]

remember how they gave erron a bullet indicator on his rifle? how about a burning spear meter for scorpion?

It would be not a bad idea to give counters for active buffs, yes.

 

[OutworldKeith]

I'm still on the fence on which is better between SR and Reborn. The damage output on SR is serious. Significant more damage in combos and throws enhances all faucets of his game. His footsies are better in SR because a whiffed F3 commands more respect and allows him to get in easier. Death Spin as a round ender is nothing to scoff at either. Also F34 has more pushback when your opponent blocks it standing. Something SR forces them to do therefore enhancing the effectiveness of F34.

Reborn has option select off single hit moves like F3 and B2, better mobility and stage control vs everyone in the cast. More of a hit and run style that nobody can stop. Whereas SR is more of a traditional MK11 style and it works because of better footsie options, damage output, and Death Spin. He just has to guess right less often to win.

I'm still trying to learn both. You can't really go wrong with Reborn but I can pull off some quick wins with SR if I get a good beat on someone.

A this point, it’s a matter of preference. I favor SR over Reborn, but they’re both good variations.

Neither variations really change his MUs too much from my XP. Jade MU being a perfect example. She still gets her best tools shut down against both variations.

 

[Hor_PeT]

A this point, it’s a matter of preference. I favor SR over Reborn, but they’re both good variations.

Neither variations really change his MUs too much from my XP. Jade MU being a perfect example. She still gets her best tools shut down against both variations.

I started playing Reborn and maybe he will be my go to.
I already posted several times I do not even use SR tools lol. I used F32 as fear tool and risk tool.
I still think it is pretty good.

Nowadays I experience massive disrespect of F3 lol and without taking risk I only have an F3 into plus frames and they even disrespect more after F3 hit.

With Reborn I have the chance to hitconfirm F3 xx tele which is huge (and on whiff it will not come out). However the execution is probably will not there.
With Searing Rage I have to do the same risk with no way back.

Stagger game of Reborn might be weaker but I am not that type who is in the face anyway (rather shimmy into whiff punish B1 walk back).

Today I played a lot Reborn and I did not really feel the lack of Searing Rage tools. Yes I missed F32 when I had the read of the poke but at least I used more F34. And did several successful F3xx tele but it was also read as execution is not good yet.
And I missed the chip out tool and lost several matches just because I could not chip him out properly. But need to get used to the situation.

I started being sick of B14 whiffs against jumps (it was even whiff punishable without 3 ender) I can not use it properly and therefore F3 is much better in certain situations.

Tele cancel for whiff punish is also good but probably normal teleport can do it too.
Only downside of using def bar is the lack of ability of break away / wake up. That's a trade off.

I need more play to be able to judge about the personal preference.

Unfortunately (?) I also got taste of "tele cancel pressure" and when it worked (pretty always) it was very evil. Easy to get used to it until somebody blow it up. It can cause bad habit over real footsies. That was one of the reasons I wanted to stick to Searing Rage.
On the other hand when I sense whiff punish opportunity I can use tele cancel which is a safer option. And in case of longer recovery move I can also punish it. Or a throw.

 

[OutworldKeith]

I started playing Reborn and maybe he will be my go to.
I already posted several times I do not even use SR tools lol. I used F32 as fear tool and risk tool.
I still think it is pretty good.

Nowadays I experience massive disrespect of F3 lol and without taking risk I only have an F3 into plus frames and they even disrespect more after F3 hit.

With Reborn I have the chance to hitconfirm F3 xx tele which is huge (and on whiff it will not come out). However the execution is probably will not there.
With Searing Rage I have to do the same risk with no way back.

Stagger game of Reborn might be weaker but I am not that type who is in the face anyway (rather shimmy into whiff punish B1 walk back).

Today I played a lot Reborn and I did not really feel the lack of Searing Rage tools. Yes I missed F32 when I had the read of the poke but at least I used more F34. And did several successful F3xx tele but it was also read as execution is not good yet.
And I missed the chip out tool and lost several matches just because I could not chip him out properly. But need to get used to the situation.

I started being sick of B14 whiffs against jumps (it was even whiff punishable without 3 ender) I can not use it properly and therefore F3 is much better in certain situations.

Tele cancel for whiff punish is also good but probably normal teleport can do it too.
Only downside of using def bar is the lack of ability of break away / wake up. That's a trade off.

I need more play to be able to judge about the personal preference.

Unfortunately (?) I also got taste of "tele cancel pressure" and when it worked (pretty always) it was very evil. Easy to get used to it until somebody blow it up. It can cause bad habit over real footsies. That was one of the reasons I wanted to stick to Searing Rage.
On the other hand when I sense whiff punish opportunity I can use tele cancel which is a safer option. And in case of longer recovery move I can also punish it. Or a throw.

I just enjoy death spin and the damage more in SR.

I like that I can always make b2 safe in Reborn though.

 

[Hor_PeT]

I just enjoy death spin and the damage more in SR.

I like that I can always make b2 safe in Reborn though.

Yes in the last few days of SR (as forcing me to use the variation!) I started using DS vs. several characters it was not bad. A little extra - and safe BS after that.
And also more DS ender into BS setup - at least I did not have to worry about the wake ups lol. After DS ender and Bs up the opponent is a bit more careful about his movement and DS becomes pretty strong. That is advantage of Scorp.

Of course against characters who can full combo punish everything about DS (even no safe BS setup) it is not that fun lol.
E.g. Jaqui can only punish max. range DS with dash punch which is not a disaster. Erron Black / Sonya can not really punish it either.

Fortunately both are fantastic.
I try to "master" (= feel and use his tools properly) Reborn as well and at least I can use both whenever I want and decide which is more fun.
Yesterday there were matches where I did not even use tele cancel lol. Need to get used to it, too. I need time to become the true "Reborn teleport noob".
Teleport cancel itself gives a bit more respect in neutral - even more than teleport itself.

Unfortunately Cassie is fun too (and she is a bit more close to my traditional approach) - I do not have enough playtime to use everyone I want.

 

[NaughtySenpai]

DS is the only move in Scorpion's arsenal that is not a poke and can punish Kano's forward roll mid thingy people throw out willy nilly.

I dunno, I think both variations are fine, with Reborn being less risky.

 

[Matix218]

Man, the scorpion teleport nerf threads are in full effect today... Feels like Injustice 1 over here lol

 

[Hor_PeT]

Man, the scorpion teleport nerf threads are in full effect today... Feels like Injustice 1 over here lol

Nerfing B1 to high shocked me.
I am interested in the first big balance patch.

 

[Zhidoreptiloid]

Nerfing B1 to high shocked me.
I am interested in the first big balance patch.

Yes, people are idiots. Their hysterical ideas can nerf scorpion to the ground. TP is high? Really? one of two core moves is high? b1 is high? what a pot you smoking

 

[Hor_PeT]

Yesterday a played against Erron - I had not much match up exp against him.
When he pulled the riffle I though me smart and teleported between shots - riffle shot auto corrected and hit my teleport.

I tried it several times with the same result lol. Good counter zoning.