MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

[-Nachtmahr-]

The frames of his f4 are not even that good or good enough to try playing the cassie meta lol

 

[SwiftEagle]

I was definitely an advocate for "F3 doesn't need to be a mid" but after waves and waves of Jacqui's and Cassie's and the multitude of characters that have solid hit confirmable mids I'm on board for F3 being a mid. Not gonna happen but a guy can wish. I'd love for Brass Knuckles to have a faster start up and an amplify option to continue pressure. Maybe they'll buff that when MK11XL drops.

The second attack in F43 should be an overhead that knocks you down. Being able to combo afterwards would be overpowered, but a simple overhead would be enough to keep your opponent blocking high. You wouldn't have to constantly watch out for D2s or pokes, and F3 can remain a high. The F43 move is stupid and should be removed entirely. You have to be a vegetable to get hit with it online anyway. Instead, the crushing blow should be with F44, to the ribs. Like Scorpion. That way F4 has a purpose. Also, a crushing blow should be on his shadow kick.
Cage would be A tier, but would still take skill to use, like he's supposed to. Instead of the overhead starter like MKX he has the low starter.

 

[NewMK11Player]

The second attack in F43 should be an overhead that knocks you down. Being able to combo afterwards would be overpowered, but a simple overhead would be enough to keep your opponent blocking high. You wouldn't have to constantly watch out for D2s or pokes, and F3 can remain a high. The F43 move is stupid and should be removed entirely. You have to be a vegetable to get hit with it online anyway. Instead, the crushing blow should be with F44, to the ribs. Like Scorpion. That way F4 has a purpose. Also, a crushing blow should be on his shadow kick.
Cage would be A tier, but would still take skill to use, like he's supposed to. Instead of the overhead starter like MKX he has the low starter.

Ive literally never hit anybody with F43, matter of fact I end up getting D2 krushing blowed or full combo punished. Another garbage move, im currently using Jax because i totally lost my mind using Cage earlier (to stressful) ... and im having a blast with Jax.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Johnny doesn’t need f3 or f2 to be a mid because he has f4. Johnny’s throw game is great. You can literally mix people off of a shadow kick by dashing in and making them guess between throw and f4. You get a mix off of d4 every time. His f3 is easily hit confirmable which would be great as a mid but is fine as is. And no way Shang’s zoning is better than Johnny’s. I’m forcing good Shang to come to me all day long.

All Johnny needs is better krushing blows and it would be nice if his whiff issues were fixed but it isn’t as important as people make it out to be.

You know what most people do after a shadow kick and a dash? they low poke. It beats whatever forward approach you make. The best people I've been playing against will literally tech 75% of throw attempts. So basically, even if you get F4 off, you're forced to block, and it's their turn. Shit lotta good that did. I mean, you can F4~caged rage, or F4~forceballs against 6 characters, but even then, you're not doing any actual work. It's ALL chip. What moron is doing anything after getting hit with amped forceballs?

I've been playing Cage all my life, and this Cage since day 1....you know what D4 gets you? Chip damage, or maybe a throw. Wow. You know what it's been getting me lately? Uppercutted. I mean, you can condition them to respect your approach after D4 with F4, but if you want actual damage, you still have o risk an amped nut punch. On block, they'll full combo you.

I can live with Cage's moveset staying exactly the same, but what is the point if you cant use a high? Our moveset drops to like, 3 moves. Spaced properly, or setup properly, you can make a go of it, but soooooo many characters have better options that simply beat Cage's. It's not worth the effort. Cage is NOT ok in his current state.

And as for Shang's zoning....Have you played against someone that really knows what their doing? His forward skull isn't as fast as johnny's green ball, but he can drop overheads that can turn into lows at a decent rate, he can bring mid hitting skulls from the ground which cause knock downs and push back, up close he can use soul steal and his slide. It can be a total minefield to move in on him. Johnny can throw a high projectile quickly that almost all characters can fucking duck block without getting hit....big deal.

Edit: needed to add this....I’m not trying to say Cage is bad. There’s a ton of potential and I love the way he moves. I really do enjoy him. The issue here is that he’s not playing the same game as many characters. He’s not bad, but he sure as shit isn’t good and the problem with that is that it’s not because he was poorly designed. The fucking game with its whiffing bullshit is mostly the problem. A problem since 2011. How the fuck is this still an issue??? I’m beyond frustrated at this point. I don’t even want to play with cage anymore after seeing how good Shang is.

 

[Owerbart]

yep, indeed i've been saying it. F3 needs to be a mid. Been saying it since day 3 or 4. Not only that, but literally 80% of the roster have faster, better mids than our ""great""f4. B3 is too damn slow. There's no reason to block high vs johnny. And I'm not even starting with the hitbox issues that literally make the programmers look amateurish. You know what bugs me the most? Comparing him to other characters. Sub zero has better normals, better specials. Better damage, better KBs.

the nut punch being only +5 is laughable. The shadow kick is a huge commitment and does the damage of an infant.

 

[Frank Reed]

You know what most people do after a shadow kick and a dash? they low poke. It beats whatever forward approach you make. The best people I've been playing against will literally tech 75% of throw attempts. So basically, even if you get F4 off, you're forced to block, and it's their turn. Shit lotta good that did. I mean, you can F4~caged rage, or F4~forceballs against 6 characters, but even then, you're not doing any actual work. It's ALL chip. What moron is doing anything after getting hit with amped forceballs?

I've been playing Cage all my life, and this Cage since day 1....you know what D4 gets you? Chip damage, or maybe a throw. Wow. You know what it's been getting me lately? Uppercutted. I mean, you can condition them to respect your approach after D4 with F4, but if you want actual damage, you still have o risk an amped nut punch. On block, they'll full combo you.

I can live with Cage's moveset staying exactly the same, but what is the point if you cant use a high? Our moveset drops to like, 3 moves. Spaced properly, or setup properly, you can make a go of it, but soooooo many characters have better options that simply beat Cage's. It's not worth the effort. Cage is NOT ok in his current state.

And as for Shang's zoning....Have you played against someone that really knows what their doing? His forward skull isn't as fast as johnny's green ball, but he can drop overheads that can turn into lows at a decent rate, he can bring mid hitting skulls from the ground which cause knock downs and push back, up close he can use soul steal and his slide. It can be a total minefield to move in on him. Johnny can throw a high projectile quickly that almost all characters can fucking duck block without getting hit....big deal.

Edit: needed to add this....I’m not trying to say Cage is bad. There’s a ton of potential and I love the way he moves. I really do enjoy him. The issue here is that he’s not playing the same game as many characters. He’s not bad, but he sure as shit isn’t good and the problem with that is that it’s not because he was poorly designed. The fucking game with its whiffing bullshit is mostly the problem. A problem since 2011. How the fuck is this still an issue??? I’m beyond frustrated at this point. I don’t even want to play with cage anymore after seeing how good Shang is.

I know you aren’t being literal but there’s no way your throws are teched 75% of the time unless you are being predictable with your setups and only throwing in one direction. In terms of Cage’s highs, f3 is nice to check someone who is advancing. Do I wish his highs were mids? Sure, but I think he has plenty to work with.

In terms of Shang’s zoning, his stuff is slower than yours. At worst you trade. And I get that it sucks the balls don’t hit a crouch blocking opponent but they do hit people jumping and dashing towards you. I strongly believe Johnny can trade projectiles with most of the cast. People should use that to their advantage. Some matchups force you to go to characters (Cassie, Skarlet). Those are harder but I’m of the opinion you should be throwing balls at them when you are advancing.

 

[Owerbart]

seriously nut punch being only +5 is fucking pathetic

 

[Name v.5.0]

I know you aren’t being literal but there’s no way your throws are teched 75% of the time unless you are being predictable with your setups and only throwing in one direction. In terms of Cage’s highs, f3 is nice to check someone who is advancing. Do I wish his highs were mids? Sure, but I think he has plenty to work with.

In terms of Shang’s zoning, his stuff is slower than yours. At worst you trade. And I get that it sucks the balls don’t hit a crouch blocking opponent but they do hit people jumping and dashing towards you. I strongly believe Johnny can trade projectiles with most of the cast. People should use that to their advantage. Some matchups force you to go to characters (Cassie, Skarlet). Those are harder but I’m of the opinion you should be throwing balls at them when you are advancing.

I don't want characters like sonya and cassie to be far away from me, so yes, I tend to want to throw them towards a corner. If I throw them away from it, I get zoned for half an hour. That's literally part of the problem. I'm not saying F3 doesn't land, the issue is when it doesn't, which is more often than not. I want to emphasize that I'm not being dominated as a cage player. Online, I'm running at about .500. You do get wins. What's frustrating is knowing i'm so much better than my character allows me to be. The game is literally rigged against us right now. If cage didnt whiff, and had maybe one KB, and still sucked, I could live with that. We literally cannot know thanks to this game's terrible design.

I'm not worried about zoning against Shang. I'm saying Shang's is more comprehensive. I'm saying he gets all these tools along with his zoning and it's incredibly unfair. This is not a match up discussion. Mids land in this game, and we play a character with nothing but highs that whiff. How is that not unfair? Let me suck, but let me suck because I'm bad, not because this game is shit.

 

[Rodney Quillz]

I don't want characters like sonya and cassie to be far away from me, so yes, I tend to want to throw them towards a corner. If I throw them away from it, I get zoned for half an hour. That's literally part of the problem. I'm not saying F3 doesn't land, the issue is when it doesn't, which is more often than not. I want to emphasize that I'm not being dominated as a cage player. Online, I'm running at about .500. You do get wins. What's frustrating is knowing i'm so much better than my character allows me to be. The game is literally rigged against us right now. If cage didnt whiff, and had maybe one KB, and still sucked, I could live with that. We literally cannot know thanks to this game's terrible design.

I'm not worried about zoning against Shang. I'm saying Shang's is more comprehensive. I'm saying he gets all these tools along with his zoning and it's incredibly unfair. This is not a match up discussion. Mids land in this game, and we play a character with nothing but highs that whiff. How is that not unfair? Let me suck, but let me suck because I'm bad, not because this game is shit.

I wouldn’t reply to this dude until he has footage man playing competent players and living his best Johnny Cage life, like he’s making it seem.

 

[Frank Reed]

I don't want characters like sonya and cassie to be far away from me, so yes, I tend to want to throw them towards a corner. If I throw them away from it, I get zoned for half an hour. That's literally part of the problem. I'm not saying F3 doesn't land, the issue is when it doesn't, which is more often than not. I want to emphasize that I'm not being dominated as a cage player. Online, I'm running at about .500. You do get wins. What's frustrating is knowing i'm so much better than my character allows me to be. The game is literally rigged against us right now. If cage didnt whiff, and had maybe one KB, and still sucked, I could live with that. We literally cannot know thanks to this game's terrible design.

I'm not worried about zoning against Shang. I'm saying Shang's is more comprehensive. I'm saying he gets all these tools along with his zoning and it's incredibly unfair. This is not a match up discussion. Mids land in this game, and we play a character with nothing but highs that whiff. How is that not unfair? Let me suck, but let me suck because I'm bad, not because this game is shit.

This is a matchup discussion though. Characters with a bunch of losing matchups need buffed and characters with a bunch of winning matchups need nerfed. What matchups are not winning or even with Cage? What matchups does he not have the toolset to compete? I want buffs for the guy just like everyone else but to act like he is trash is ridiculous. Hell, Kombat is beating Sonicfox with him. Is he the best character in the game? Absolutely not but he is definitely a really solid character that when played smartly can compete with just about anyone.

 

[Deleted member 35141]

This is a matchup discussion though. Characters with a bunch of losing matchups need buffed and characters with a bunch of winning matchups need nerfed. What matchups are not winning or even with Cage? What matchups does he not have the toolset to compete? I want buffs for the guy just like everyone else but to act like he is trash is ridiculous. Hell, Kombat is beating Sonicfox with him. Is he the best character in the game? Absolutely not but he is definitely a really solid character that when played smartly can compete with just about anyone.

Wow sonic fox lost to johnny cage who at the time maybe played the character once and if he picked any of his other characters like jaqui and cassie half his gameplan is gone.
I love cage but he has major whiffing issues, no useful KBs and 22 other characters have faster mids. Can I work around all that sure but im not blind and if you look at pro tier he has slowly slid down the tiers from mid tier to bottom 5.

Im also pretty sure you dont know what mix means a slow mid or grab is not a mix because all d2 are faster than his f4 so your not doing that up close, so your option up close is throw right? Well that d2 I mentioned also beats highs AND grabs with a easy KB. That is the most predictable "MIX" ive heard of.

Edit- did you really say after shadow kick you can dash forward and mix people up lol shadow kicks them across the full screen

 

[Rodney Quillz]

Wow sonic fox lost to johnny cage who at the time maybe played the character once and if he picked any of his other characters like jaqui and cassie half his gameplan is gone.
I love cage but he has major whiffing issues, no useful KBs and 22 other characters have faster mids. Can I work around all that sure but im not blind and if you look at pro tier he has slowly slid down the tiers from mid tier to bottom 5.

Im also pretty sure you dont know what mix means a slow mid or grab is not a mix because all d2 are faster than his f4 so your not doing that up close, so your option up close is throw right? Well that d2 I mentioned also beats highs AND grabs with a easy KB. That is the most predictable "MIX" ive heard of.

Edit- did you really say after shadow kick you can dash forward and mix people up lol shadow kicks them across the full screen

This dude is trolling man.

 

[Bronzefist]

I have pretty much given up on Cage and started using Shang instead. It's nice having a character with better zoning, better KBs, better 1 EX bar combo damage, actual overheads and better lows.

Shang doesn't have fast mids either but his other tools are so much better than Cage's.

I'll still play Cage for fun but Jesus, it's too uphill of a battle.

 

[NewMK11Player]

I have pretty much given up on Cage and started using Shang instead. It's nice having a character with better zoning, better KBs, better 1 EX bar combo damage, actual overheads and better lows.

Shang doesn't have fast mids either but his other tools are so much better than Cage's.

I'll still play Cage for fun but Jesus, it's too uphill of a battle.

Yeah man, I recently picked up Jax because of I was tired of Cages issues and started enjoying the game more That should tell you something

 

[kevkopdx]

I’m pretty much done with Cage too... playing Kitana now... it feels nice to close out a game or clutch moment with a krushing blow.

 

[Tundra81]

God damn it fellahs everybody jumping ship?!? I refuse to let go, I may be fighting with my wife on a daily basis since KL started and yelling at my kids for no reason other than the fact that this character isn't allowed to play MK11 but I'm not letting go. Bring on the divorce and child support I'm a Johnny Cage main for Christ's sakes.

 

[Tundra81]

Baraka been feeling pretty damn strong lately though.....

 

[heildan]

Playing Johnny Cage is making people insane it seems.

 

[NewMK11Player]

God damn it fellahs everybody jumping ship?!? I refuse to let go, I may be fighting with my wife on a daily basis since KL started and yelling at my kids for no reason other than the fact that this character isn't allowed to play MK11 but I'm not letting go. Bring on the divorce and child support I'm a Johnny Cage main for Christ's sakes.

Youre a better man than me, I lasted until a day ago, the game is stressful as it is, but with Johnny? its that x 100.

 

[ShepherdOfFire]

I said I was dropping Cage for, but who am I kidding ? Of course I'll keep playing him, he's my best character by far. But damn I hate how NRS deals with the issues of its characters, especially Johnny. I never thought Johnny would have the same issues than in MKX with DIzzy being part of the Q&A team.

Dizzy, you were the chosen one ! You were supposed to destroy the whifing issues, not create them !

 

[Rodney Quillz]

God damn it fellahs everybody jumping ship?!? I refuse to let go, I may be fighting with my wife on a daily basis since KL started and yelling at my kids for no reason other than the fact that this character isn't allowed to play MK11 but I'm not letting go. Bring on the divorce and child support I'm a Johnny Cage main for Christ's sakes.

Johnny Cage is the titanic man.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

This thread beginning to end is like documentation of people going insane over time bc of Johnny.

Tfw @M.D. was right

 

[Rodney Quillz]

This thread beginning to end is like documentation of people going insane over time bc of Johnny.

Tfw @M.D. was right

Yeah man I’m thinking about joining the lin kuei

 

[K3M1K4l]

I appreciate johnny for lvling me up faster. It would be nice to see a post regarding new tech or something amongst all this.lol. I guess a man can dream.

 

[K03bIPb]

I am going to drop Johnny a little too. The day before I got destroyed by Jade who knows match up. She knows that I can’t actually hit her crouching and she sitting all the time and spam d4 If I try to close distance or apply pressure. I tried f44 three times after 10 uppercuts or d4 from Jade, then she blocked the next one and throw me out of that fucking game. I can actually jail Jade with f344 xx EX forceballs(unbelievable, famale Jade can’t crouchblock it!) but I can’t catch her to do this shit! I done f4 forceballs once and then she destroy me again. Yeah, I am masochist and play on second Johnny var. I can’t confirm f4 + camera of b34 camera - it fucking whiffs. My choice: risky f44 to 116 damage reward and I lost my advantage if blocked or try to f3 and got destroyed too because uppercut or d4 again.
Seriously, if your enemy knows match up, Cage is fucking garbage right now. Not about his whiffing issues, but all roster has much better options to win.
Far reaching but very slow normals is Kotal preference too. Is he good right now? NO. Cage is better, but not so much better. You can outplay your enemy, but if you both knows how to play this game your opponent win not because he is better player.
KB issues, whiffing issues(-9999 on match-up, if your opponent can crouchblock forceball and it whiff - > full combo punish for EX option), no mids(WTF Scorpion’s f3 is 13 frames MID with -2 with counterhit KB-TO-COMBO on f34, TOTALLY SAFE -7 with BIG PUSHBACK and has ALMOST Cage range, but we has 14 frames MID f4 with -9 ON BLOCK WTF NRS but we can continue into f44 ONLY -5 ON BLOCK, NO PUSHBACK, THANK YOU MUCH NRS! I am done about character who MUST apply pressure and has his ONLY(except b2) mid like that. f3 is good, but -4 on block too(should be +frames of 0 at least for HIGH), it’s fucking HIGH and 14 frames.
I am tired of Johnny. Not a deal if enemy can spam me(hello Sonya, Cetrion, Scarlet etc., melee destroy me (hello, nine-frame safe & cancelable mids from Liu, Jackie, Cassie etc.), 50/50 low overhead me(Erron, Sub, Geras, Sonya etc.), but Johnny sucks all the time. If you knows match up you really can destroy JC very easily. IT’S NOT OKEY WHEN CROUCHING WITHOUT BLOCK MOST OF TIME DESTROYING YOUR CHARACTER

I am going to try Jade’s second var. She has at least a little bit WORKING KB’s and enemy can’t spam her very hard. Still waiting for balance patch... my last hope.

I’m very sorry for my English, IDN is that English. I will totally happy if you understand me a little.