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Match-up Discussion Green Arrow In Depth Match Up Discussion (1.06)

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Bane

What I said before still stands but the match is pretty damn bad, it's in banes favor by far. GA needs a favorable stage to win this match IMO. Hall of justice, gotham street and fortress of solitude are probably the best.

The thing with this match is it's similar to the lex (minus the projectiles) match but you have no way to stop him from getting armor. On top of that bane can get in a lot easier than lex can. His forward and back dash are both very good. He also has an extremely long and fast low that gives him good advantage to close the distance.

Arrows really don't do much in this match at all. In a lot of cases if I used arrows they took too long to recover to stop his armored charge move with a MB b3. That leads to good chip and bane in your face with venom. Level 3 venom blows through armor too so if he's in with that it's game over.

On wake up vs bane bow spin will work well against his 50/50 but can be baited obviously, it is his best wake up options vs bane though imo. Back dash will escape his low started but loses to the overhead. I need to test if back dash avoids the grab, I'm assuming it does.

If you run into bane I would do my best to get a favorable stage or counter pick.
Backdash doesn't avoid the grab, also bow spin loses to double punch.
Also if we meaty b.23 you on wake-up, the 3 will hit you out of backdash.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Backdash doesn't avoid the grab, also bow spin loses to double punch.
Also if we meaty b.23 you on wake-up, the 3 will hit you out of backdash.
Good to know. I'm guessing double punch has to be timed early right? because I did lose to it with wake up bow spin at times. I edited my post with your info.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Good to know. I'm guessing double punch has to be timed early right? because I did lose to it with wake up bow spin at times.
Yes, it has to be meaty. However, most Banes will simply back up a small bit and charge your wake-up to get through savage blast. That or do a point blank b.3 which covers the savage blast distance and blows up everything else barring slide which goes under it. Since Bane is never hurting for meter, its worth it to learn the motions. Most Banes won't do it, but with the new changes some might start adopting it since our <b b.3 beats out most wake-ups and backdashes.

Meaty Body Press will also stop a lot of your wake-ups because its a touchbox so the moment you lose wake-up invuln if you aren't grab immune or jumping you can count yourself as scooped.

If a Bane dashes in, its a Mb b.3. If Bane stays put, its likely a DP or BP. If Bane backs up slightly, its a charge.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Yes, it has to be meaty. However, most Banes will simply back up a small bit and charge your wake-up to get through savage blast. That or do a point blank b.3 which covers the savage blast distance and blows up everything else barring slide which goes under it. Since Bane is never hurting for meter, its worth it to learn the motions. Most Banes won't do it, but with the new changes some might start adopting it since our <b b.3 beats out most wake-ups and backdashes.

Meaty Body Press will also stop a lot of your wake-ups because its a touchbox so the moment you lose wake-up invuln if you aren't grab immune or jumping you can count yourself as scooped.

If a Bane dashes in, its a Mb b.3. If Bane stays put, its likely a DP or BP. If Bane backs up slightly, its a charge.
Yeah, I stopped trying to use savage blast a long time ago lol. I'm going to training to try some stuff out. Thanks for the info.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
So GA's only real options on wake up are pretty much block, push block and jump. Pretty rough lol.

If arrow had a way to keep bane out it wouldn't be that bad but his mobility combined with armor is insane. Pretty much 1 forward dash from more than half a screen away puts him in d1 range. If arrow had a way to stop his advancing armor (besides dead on) he could keep him out better. As of now the character totally kills arrow up close and has no issue's getting in at all.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
So GA's only real options on wake up are pretty much block, push block and jump. Pretty rough lol.

If arrow had a way to keep bane out it wouldn't be that bad but his mobility combined with armor is insane. Pretty much 1 forward dash from more than half a screen away puts him in d1 range. If arrow had a way to stop his advancing armor (besides dead on) he could keep him out better. As of now the character totally kills arrow up close and has no issue's getting in at all.
Yep. Everyone has their problem match-ups.
 

RYX

I will downplay anything for 5 dollars
Are there any thoughts on Shazam and Lobo match-ups right now?
 
Lex

I'm going to say lex is 6-4 right now. Arrow does have the tools to keep him out and win the match that way. As I said before keeping arrows on the screen is key. Holding arrows is a great way to get the positioning that you want on the screen which can lead to good situations for arrow. Still though if lex gets momentum and armor you will have a very hard time.

MB sky alert works pretty well against lex's armor jump ins and MB dead on woks in some situations to get rid of armor because it knocks down.

Also fucking J3 crossup setups into MB dead on (34% if all arrows hit) are pretty damn good after a J2. If you end a combo with freeze then j2 the stagger makes it so you set up some tricky crossups with j3 and dead on. Works really well in some match ups, not really lex specific.

Bane

What I said before still stands but the match is pretty damn bad, it's in banes favor by far. GA needs a favorable stage to win this match IMO. Hall of justice, gotham street and fortress of solitude are probably the best.

The thing with this match is it's similar to the lex (minus the projectiles) match but you have no way to stop him from getting armor. On top of that bane can get in a lot easier than lex can. His forward and back dash are both very good. He also has an extremely long and fast low that gives him good advantage to close the distance.

Arrows really don't do much in this match at all. In a lot of cases if I used arrows they took too long to recover to stop his armored charge move with a MB b3. That leads to good chip and bane in your face with venom. Level 3 venom blows through armor too so if he's in with that it's game over.

If you run into bane I would do my best to get a favorable stage or counter pick.

EDIT

The wake up info I previously posted was wrong and corrected by Doombawkz. his exact post - Backdash doesn't avoid the grab, also bow spin loses to double punch.
Also if we meaty b.23 you on wake-up, the 3 will hit you out of backdash.
I wanted to kill you on gotham alley, lmao. Yea honestly it's 6-4 bane on a favorable stage, but I think on a heavy stage like Arkham or Insurgency, it becomes 7-3. Only thing that beats out DP that Arrow has is slide and MBB3. And not to mention the buffs we've received make it really damn difficult.
 

LEGEND

YES!
Premium Supporter
Bane didn't seem THAT bad for me

i think GA can actually play a better keep away game then is being suggested

i'm going to test some things later today to make sure i wasn't getting away with stuff
 
Reactions: 7L
GA can play keep away, but his shallow jump doesn't help for sure. And honestly once Bane has you pressured on a knockdown it's crazy for Arrow. Eventually Savage Blasts are going to drag you to the corner, and then it becomes real hell lol. This is one of Bane's matchups that I feel is really in his favor.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Bane didn't seem THAT bad for me

i think GA can actually play a better keep away game then is being suggested

i'm going to test some things later today to make sure i wasn't getting away with stuff
It really depends on the stage. If you can't use the stage to help keep him out it's going to be a problem. That dash bane has is insane and once he gets within range of his d1 it gets crazy. I really don't see it being that hard for him to get in.
 

7L

Heads up!
Premium Supporter
Thanks! And your green arrow is hype as shit man.
Thank you,

Grundy. Main things are, he has no answer for savage blast. You can't just aimlessly do it from full screen though because you will get hit by swamp hands.

When walking corpse is coming, 22 savage blast will allow you to get away. Everytime that grundy gets hit, the input for canceling the WC is taken away. So a quick hitting 22 to savage blast will cancel the input. If he does cancel in time, he is still eating the 22 savage blast, jailing him into not being able to pressure. If he tries to WC at a savage blast coming out, another one will get you safely away.

The big thing about WC is that it will not hit the active frames of savage blast.

On knock down, you have the option to guess if he will WC or Cleaver. The cleaver has so much invisibility that it will catch you if you try to run in and 22/d1 to savage blast, the best thing to do is to wait until he wakes up and read it. If he ex or normal cleavers, armored b3 to blow it up for 35%+ or simply block. For many of his tricks, you can simply d1 to savage blast to get away or just savage blast.

His d2 to 4 (ability chain grab) can he interrupted by d1. The ability can actually catch your savage blast at some points but it isn't too likely. f13 to 4 can be backdashed. This will beat most of his options that he can do afterward. The antiair grab(a read) will wiff, the cleaver will come out but you can block in time, swamp hands will be able to be blocked in time. Also a thing to do with him after his mix ups is armored b3, this is a huge help to arrow. Super won't really be used in this match up.

If you start catching their wake up cleavers, they'll start to respect you on knockdown. Then you can start sneaking in b2's and more pressure on wake up.

A lot of this match up is knowing what grundy can do and how to counter it.

112 to WC for example, if you just try to savage blast, he can cancel and sometimes catch you with d2. The best thing to do is d1 to savage blast because this will delay input for a cancel, if he did it and then the savage blast will escape the WC if he doesn't cancel.

http://www.twitch.tv/kombatnetwork/b/465799616

start at 1:22:00. People say I just have Mike's number. I think the MU isn't bad
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
If anyone here knows something about how to keep bane out I'm all ears. If GA cant keep him out he can't win imo and I can't keep that character out at all.
 
If anyone here knows something about how to keep bane out I'm all ears. If GA cant keep him out he can't win imo and I can't keep that character out at all.
I don't know much about the Bane match up because I haven't played too many good ones but here is whats been working for me. When I seen a Bane in venom 1,2,3 i run away. This can make the game longer but it helps since he takes less damage and does more. I run by doing a jump 3 away from him so that way if he tries to jump he will get hit by it and I continue to run. If they try to dash in I do a few savage blasts to push them back and keep them blocking. Then most Banes will try to do their charge. As you said already neutral jump it. If i'm in the corner when he charges I do go for a punish just to do a little damage and to run down the time of his venom. Once you hit the corner just try to block and find an opening out; this is REALLY difficult. If he hits you with a combo I usually do a wake up mb stinger to try to create space. Also If he does his charge you can do a mb dead on to knock him down giving you time to run. Although i wouldn't recommend it meter plays such a huge factor in this match up. When his venom runs out just rush him down and try to deal as much damage as possible. Another thing to keep in mind is when you're running I've played a few banes that will start doing their venom uppercut, if you can read they are going to do it just block it and punish it. When I play Banes i also typically use Electric Arrows because of their speed and stun. If you can hit him with those he will have a few seconds of venom wasted doesn't sound like a lot but really anything helps. Again I don't know how reliable this is against a very good Bane because I've played so few but I'm just trying to help out. Map does play a HUGE part and I do feel like this is 6-4 in Banes favor 7-3 dependent on map.
 

LEGEND

YES!
Premium Supporter
If anyone here knows something about how to keep bane out I'm all ears. If GA cant keep him out he can't win imo and I can't keep that character out at all.
i'll just run through some things, hopefully some of it is helpful:


be smart about how you use regular arrows and what you do after one hits, load arrow (fire at range, ice closer up) or if you hit a regular arrow within a dash's distance you can go in for a quick mix-up and hopefully send him back full screen

Savage blast, lots of them. As long as you are paying attention to what the bane player is doing you will be able to react to a Charge and either block it or MB B3 it

Jump back 3 can keep him in check and open up empty backward jumps to gain space. Will lose to Charge on a read, as well as Venom uppercut if you are too close

using the occasional Slide to check him, will get beat out by random charges or jumps, so if the bane player starts trying to make random reads like that it works in your favor

saving your meter for MB B3s and MB Slides is a must, if you have it use it. You can't afford to sit on full meter in hopes of a super reset

Don't be so afraid of the double punch when you're knocked down, its better to get hit by a few of them then get hit by the grab or B23

you can jump back or forward out of repeat double punches, but it will lose to AA grab every time if its read and can be caught by a F2 (back jump) and D2 (forward jump)

If you block a double punch at its max range you can savage blast out off a follow-up (somewhat useless information, also can get beat out by level 3 venom F2)