What's new

General/Other - Ravenous Why I feel Ravenous is Mileena's best variation.

Which variation do you feel is best with Mileena (excluding recent tournament results)?


  • Total voters
    86

SaltFace NS

Ultimate Mileena Exterminator
Since the beginning of MKX there has always been this debate on which variation is best with Mileena. Most people will say that it's Piercing & some say Ravenous now (mainly due to my tournament placements with it). Some nowadays even say that it's Ethereal after the recent buffs. I'm writing this thread here to explain why without a doubt the Ravenous variation is Mileena's best variation as of right now.

Let's look at the facts & break the character down. With no variation added Mileena has no...I repeat NO OVERHEAD starters outside of the F3 or MB Ball (which of course requires meter). This first fact here hurts the Ethereal variation. Ethereal is super meter dependent in order to have a safe wake up, getting ok damage, or being able to actually mix an opponent up. I feel that at high level this variation just won't cut it when fighting the higher tier characters.

Now let's look at Piercing. Piercing does offer some pretty good tools. You get sais with your B1,2 string, you gain the low sai that every Mileena player swears is the greatest thing on Earth, you get two unique strings & enders for your combos. Once again Mileena's core problem with NO OVERHEAD starter outside of F3 & MB Ball still exist. You do however gain the re-stand resets (which is an awesome tool to have) but I say it's not very powerful due to the fact that it's only a mixup once you have meter. Low Sai isn't that great to me due to the fact people at high level jump it almost on reaction & punish me for it hard. So to me her quote on quote zoning in this variation isn't even that strong.

Now my reasons for playing & choosing Ravenous over the other two. My biggest reason is that the core weakness of NO OVERHEAD starter or option without meter outside of F3 no longer exists. If your opponent wants to block low all day you now have the Low Pounce option which will hit them over & over again until they stand. You can tick throw into it as well off of a safe string which always gives you practically a free 50/50 every time someone blocks a Standing 2. Eventually it can open up the opponent by forcing stand blocking & now F4 now becomes useful. The High Pounce being -7 is a blessing since most characters have no way of punishing it & it makes many unsafe things Mileena has safer. Since you know you can't be punished MB Ball becomes a 50/50 after blocking High Pounce because it will hit any counter poking option your opponent tries to do. Once that fear is instilled in them they think twice at swinging at you & it opens up more offensive options for you. The final usefulness of the High & Low Pounce is the ability to control the position of you and your opponent on the screen. And the anti-wake up game that exists in all variations is still prominent in Ravenous.

This is a small breakdown as to why I feel Ravenous is Mileena's best variation.

@Mr. Mileena @Method @theGabStandard @Blonde_Huntress @SonicFox5000 @all other Mileena mains.

Care to elaborate fellas?
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
Completely agree, I've been feeling that same way for a few weeks now, I also believe that her healing is very good, and you get to use all your meter to escape pressure and wake-up, since in some cases she doesn't need a bar of meter to mix her oponents up.

Also, F12 whiffing is what will end up killing Piercing as her best variation IMO.
 

Blonde_Huntress

Edenian Witch <3
I agree 100.

I've been saying this. The pounces really help shape up her strings, her mix ups, and most importantly, overall pressure.

Couple that with being her highest damage output variant as well.

I will say Piercing does get fabulous, and I do mean FABULOUS range off B12. However, I still feel that at the end of the day that Ravenous is her most useful and overall safest variant, thanks in large part to pounces.
 

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
Since the beginning of MKX there has always been this debate on which variation is best with Mileena. Most people will say that it's Piercing & some say Ravenous now (mainly due to my tournament placements with it). Some nowadays even say that it's Ethereal after the recent buffs. I'm writing this thread here to explain why without a doubt the Ethereal variation is Mileena's best variation as of right now.

Lets Look at Ravenous. Ravenous got some pretty great buffs. The enlarged hitbox on B12~1+3 and the self regen was great, and she has a pseudo overhead. While Mileena has no true threatening overhead without meter, the low pounce can be used to condition some opponents. However, the fact that it comes out after only one good tickable string makes it predictable. If the opponent blocks either the pounce or the low I become punishable by a string interupt or the pounce being -10 on block. It works, but it's the same meta as 2(ex overhead) and 21. Just meterless. Having larger damage off of EX Roll is great, however the low pounce still needs a little more versatility and both of her pounce enders leave her in a negative situation on block.

Now let's look at Piercing. Piercing does offer some pretty good tools. You get sais with your B1,2 string, you gain the low sai that every Mileena player swears is the greatest thing on Earth, you get two unique strings & enders for your combos. Once again Mileena's core problem with NO OVERHEAD starter outside of F3 & MB Ball still exist. You do however gain the re-stand resets (which is an awesome tool to have) but I say it's not very powerful due to the fact that it's only a mixup once you have meter. Low Sai isn't that great to me due to the fact people at high level jump it almost on reaction & punish me for it hard. So to me her quote on quote zoning in this variation isn't even that strong.

Now my reasons for playing & choosing Ethereal over the other two. My biggest reason is that the core weakness of always negative strings (aside from 12, 123) is completely negated by use of vanish at the end of block strings. This creates a situtation where Mileena can not only build meter for free after every touch, but space herself to use her mediocre zoning or teleport away again. This allows her to build meter safely and easier than any other variation. Ex Fade provides her the ability to safely check an opponent with F4 and continue the combo if it hits, or be 100% safe if it's blocked. It also allows her to safely check 21 and other strings. F21 just like in Ravenous does not suffer hitbox issues like piercing. While she does lose about 3-4% damage per combo compared to Ravenous and Piercing, she can make up for it with her knockdown setups. Vanish towards during techable knockdowns (if you end your combos in sai to build more meter) actually do not concern Mileena when she uses this and she can safely assess the situation. The gem of this variation is that it's the ONLY mileena variation that gets a safe invincible wakeup tool that not only has combo potential, but gets out of the corner for free. This is huge in some matchups due to the risk Mileena has to take when she is on her back and her poor defensive options.

This is a small breakdown as to why I Ethereal is Mileena's best variation.



:p
 
Last edited:

Endding

You picked a bad time to get lost friend
I think all of Mileena's variations are capable in the right hands, why just limit yourself to Rav, Piercing or Ethereal?

Play them all, variation could be chosen on what you feel comfortable with in a certain MU. For example maybe you like Low Sai verse Kitana etc

Also props to all the Mileena's at Evo.
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
@YOMI RM SaltFace i disagree with parts of your summary to be honest man (not about what her best variation just some the points you wrote)
i feel your looking through rose tinted glasses only talking about the good rather than the whole picture

were in it is it mentioned low pounce is a full combo punish by the whole cast? that's kind of a big deal.
even with the OS off 21u4 (which can be blown up with armor) that 50/50 is very yolo and pounce doesnt work in the same way ex roll does for mixup seeing as besides 21 where theres lows in strings low pounce currently doesnt work

yes high pounce cant be punished by alot of the cast but when you take alook at who can and there likelyhood to be used in tourny its not as solid as your trying to make out.
you mentioned you feel ethereal wont cut it against high tiers, imo pounce's current design doesnt.

cassie - flip kick
kung lao - spin
jax - 1
radien - F1
liu kang - F1
reptile - ex slide
scorpion - D1
shinnok - D1, ex hellsparks
ermac - D1
kotal - D1, D4
goro- D1, D3
ferra/torr (lackey only) D1
(obviously d1 isnt much of a punish % wise but mileena is then put into pressure/guessing game because d1s are so heavily plus on hit in this game)

imo mileenas "core problem" is not the lack of overheads, its her frame data on alot of her normals (no i dont mean speed up f3 either lol)


also one question if you dont mind, why do you always do f12b4~high pounce so much when you play,
any character can blow that up with armor just like f4~pounce can, i was really surprised even when watching your local yomi tournies that no one doing it,
but maybe im missing something???


ps.also not sure if said it in another thread or not but major major props for getting 9th with her at a 1000+ tourny, being honest i thought the elder gods where on the empresses side(like gross not knowing what to do with a blocked telekick,mk9 syndrome im guessing) and you were going to go all the way with way stream was going, maybe if we'd of cried like kitana and kenshi players mileena would have less problems :(
 

Jolt

Uprise
I'm just a no-name (haven't posted in ages!) but I'm inclined to agree with this. Ravenous is Mileena's BEST variation in terms of the character and design. It has the fewest disadvantages, and the most important advantage in high-level gameplay.

With that said, I think that Milena's a character where you switch variations to counter certain player's weaknesses. Mileena is ultimately THE mind game of MKX. All of her variations have a time and place, but Ravenous is the most universally successful.

Lately, I've been finding a lot of success with ethereal personally. If you are careful, the other player CAN NOT start pressure. If they can't start pressure, it doesn't matter that you don't have the meter to breakout. I'd say I almost always have a minimum of one bar and I hardly think twice before using it as I normally get it back.

If ethereal had just a bit higher damage output, I'd give it a solid contender spot for defensive/counter players.

My opinion for best variation:

Rushdown/Pressure = Ravenous
Defensive/Counter = Ethereal
Master of None (Jack of all trades) = Piercing

If vanish were a universal tool, she'd be S++ tier lol

the thing about ethereal is currently you can get away with some gimmicks, it won't always be that way especially not high-level. So yeah, Ravenous takes the cake even though it's my personal least favorite in terms of design.
 

SaltFace NS

Ultimate Mileena Exterminator
@YOMI RM SaltFace i disagree with parts of your summary to be honest man (not about what her best variation just some the points you wrote)
i feel your looking through rose tinted glasses only talking about the good rather than the whole picture

were in it is it mentioned low pounce is a full combo punish by the whole cast? that's kind of a big deal.
even with the OS off 21u4 (which can be blown up with armor) that 50/50 is very yolo and pounce doesnt work in the same way ex roll does for mixup seeing as besides 21 where theres lows in strings low pounce currently doesnt work

yes high pounce cant be punished by alot of the cast but when you take alook at who can and there likelyhood to be used in tourny its not as solid as your trying to make out.
you mentioned you feel ethereal wont cut it against high tiers, imo pounce's current design doesnt.

cassie - flip kick
kung lao - spin
jax - 1
radien - F1
liu kang - F1
reptile - ex slide
scorpion - D1
shinnok - D1, ex hellsparks
ermac - D1
kotal - D1, D4
goro- D1, D3
ferra/torr (lackey only) D1
(obviously d1 isnt much of a punish % wise but mileena is then put into pressure/guessing game because d1s are so heavily plus on hit in this game)

imo mileenas "core problem" is not the lack of overheads, its her frame data on alot of her normals (no i dont mean speed up f3 either lol)


also one question if you dont mind, why do you always do f12b4~high pounce so much when you play,
any character can blow that up with armor just like f4~pounce can, i was really surprised even when watching your local yomi tournies that no one doing it,
but maybe im missing something???


ps.also not sure if said it in another thread or not but major major props for getting 9th with her at a 1000+ tourny, being honest i thought the elder gods where on the empresses side(like gross not knowing what to do with a blocked telekick,mk9 syndrome im guessing) and you were going to go all the way with way stream was going, maybe if we'd of cried like kitana and kenshi players mileena would have less problems :(
I do it because of this reason. It's another type of mind game that comes from doing it...by completing F1,2,B4 (which has no gap but is -6) people like to poke at me & by conditioning them with the High Pounce ender I train them not to attack back for fear of getting hit. Also if I train you & you think I will High Pounce & you armor...well guess what you just blew a bar on a bad read & are probably about to get punished. And I said a small summary not a full one...Read the OP.

Also yes Low Pounce can be punished on whiff but trust me NOT EVEN SONICFOX himself punishes that move on whiff on a consistant basis. You can't be afraid to use it because your thinking of what the worst case scenario can be. You go for it believing it will hit.
 

SaltFace NS

Ultimate Mileena Exterminator
I think all of Mileena's variations are capable in the right hands, why just limit yourself to Rav, Piercing or Ethereal?

Play them all, variation could be chosen on what you feel comfortable with in a certain MU. For example maybe you like Low Sai verse Kitana etc

Also props to all the Mileena's at Evo.
Oh trust me I will use the other two. I just want to put the "which variation is the best overall?" talk to bed finally.
 

Method

Full Combo Punishable
imo mileenas "core problem" is not the lack of overheads, its her frame data on alot of her normals (no i dont mean speed up f3 either lol)
There's not much I can say to elaborate on what's already been said, except that I strongly agree with the above statement. Mileena is SO unsafe ... I'm not sure why NRS feels it necessary. Her frame data needs help. It would be nice to have EX whatever be super plus on block like orbit hat, etc. but I'd be content with offensive options that are safe(r), with fewer gaps to armor through.

I also agree that Ravenous is the best variation. I mained Piercing for the longest time but I've since made the switch. It's equally yolo, but I feel Ravenous has a better overall toolset, improved ability to condition, and is far more consistent (fuck you, B21 2+4). Plus maskless + Vampiress skin wins all. I really want to love Ethereal, but I can't make it work beyond abusing EX fade to escape corner pressure (which is amazing).
 
Oh trust me I will use the other two. I just want to put the "which variation is the best overall?" talk to bed finally.
How are people jumping low sai on reaction? When placed right it's damn near a force block unless you got predictable and they read it. The meterless overhead makes this variation for sure. Piercing's F12 whiff issue hurts that variation a bit as well.

@YOMI RM SaltFaceimo mileenas "core problem" is not the lack of overheads, its her frame data on alot of her normals (no i dont mean speed up f3 either lol)
^THIS. Been saying this for a while now.
 

Awkward Sloth

Lamest Harley, still better sloth than Jer
Saltface I respect what you're saying about Ravenous but what if hear me out. We buffed f3 to be 22 frames? Crazy right ? That way the universal weakness of the character could fixed and people could using the designated variation system for what it was intended for.

P.S. RavenAss Piercing bois :DOGE
 

Blonde_Huntress

Edenian Witch <3
Also yes Low Pounce can be punished on whiff but trust me NOT EVEN SONICFOX himself punishes that move on whiff on a consistant basis. You can't be afraid to use it because your thinking of what the worst case scenario can be. You go for it believing it will hit.
Agreed--I don't think I've EVER played a match that punished a whiff on Low Pounce.

With that being said, while we ALL know F3 is horribly telegraphed and unsafe--I don't see it punished NEARLY enough. I still see SaltFace hit people in tournaments with it consistently, and from my own experience, I have a surprisingly good track record with it as well. I think the key is to just not spam the hell out of it. Throw it in randomly at times--it really seems like people have trouble responding to it. I only mention it because it potentially nets Mileena her highest damage output if it connects. 40%+ is what you SHOULD be netting from a connected F3 in Ravenous.
 

Method

Full Combo Punishable
Plus, isn't F34 zero on block? So long as you confirm into full combo (which is easy as hell), you're not risking much. On the other hand, mashing out F343 at every opportunity is gonna get you rekt. I always worry about the inevitable poke during startup, however ...

Someone should post a clinic on how/when to use F3. It's still a hot topic.
 

Ninjaguy446

all I have is the Green
Rav master race. All hail Emperor Saltface and Mileena Kahnum.

And congrats at EVO man. 9th is amazing considering the turnout, especially with Mileena. Our Empress would be proud of you! :)
 
I guess the best feature of her in this variation that completely trumps the other variations, is the fact that she can make everything -7, so you are only unsafe when you choose to be.
Low Pounce is best feature. Meterless overhead that she currently lacks.
And -7 is ok and all, but you're really not that unsafe on most of her strings anyway aside from F4 and the full F343/F344 enders.