Tech - Swarm Queen Swarm Queen Pressure (Frame Traps, WGC, and Mixups)

[KillaGthug4Life]

D'vorah's Swarm Queen pressure is 100% godlike in this variation. Her 2 and her 21 are neutral on block. Her F11 is only -1 on block and her d4 is an 8frame startup that's +19 on hit.

So! Taking all that into account we can throw in some very fun Mixup blockstrings with her WGC (Wasp Grenade Cancel)

F112, WGC, 21 is a frame trap

This block string cannot even be armored out of if done properly. (212 has a gap on the last hit that can be armored). 21 also leaves us neutral on block. I have no idea how big the frame gap is between 212, but supposing the opponent doesn't armor through that then D'vorah can do some stagger string mixups:

F112, WGC, 21, d4.

On hit, the d4 gives us a 50/50 mixup, she can dash in for the b12 airthrow (17%) or continue with F22 overhead, which on hit leads to a 32-34% combo (F22, WGC, 212, Swarm, F44, F112, Ovi Charge) OR you can continue frame trap pressure with F112:

F112, WGC, 21, d4, F112, WGC, 21 or 212 or F11
or
F112, WGC, 21, d4, F22, WGC, 21 or 212 or F11 (F22 for mixups after d4).

Furthermore, If they expect the d4 after 21, you can just continue into 212 combo which is an overhead. F22 into 212 is unforuntately not a frame trap and can be armored/ poked out of, but the timing for the opponent is strict.

If they try to poke out of the d4 stagger string or block low, you can just instead finish the string with a 212 overhead into a combo (212, Swarm, walk forward, F44, F112, Ovi Charge 30%).

You can repeat the F11, WGC, 21, d4 THREE TIMES before the run bar won't allow you to sprint.

FInally, after every F11 WGC string, there is a 50/50 mixup, you can go for the frame trap (212) or you can do b12 airthrow (17%) or F34, F44, F112, Ovi Charge (30%)

P.S: I know you can combo off the B1 with a WGC, but for those who can do it consistently you have fingers capable of olympic gymnastics.

#ThisBitchIsBroken

@TopTierHarley
@Blind_Ducky
@ChatterBox

And I really don't know who else are the big D'vorah Players. Where all y'all at?!

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

Last note: Her F112, WGC, 21, D4, F112, WGC, (21/212/F34/B12) Build 72-80% of a bar of meter just on block. And does in-between 7-9% of chip damage.

 

[AK partyeagle]

This pressure isn't bad, remember d4 isn't the fastest move and since 21 is neutral they can mash d1 or something to beat you out.
But this is exactly the type of thread I was talking about , a place to show off our pressure strings.

Since 21 is 9frames have you checked this against reversals like hat spin? I can't test right now but we should see how +frames f11 WGC is so we can mix in additional strings and maybe some cancels into db1 to discourage button presses.

 

[Vak Phoenix]

Glad more people play her. Nice thread btw.

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

This pressure isn't bad, remember d4 isn't the fastest move and since 21 is neutral they can mash d1 or something to beat you out.
But this is exactly the type of thread I was talking about , a place to show off our pressure strings.

Since 21 is 9frames have you checked this against reversals like hat spin? I can't test right now but we should see how +frames f11 WGC is so we can mix in additional strings and maybe some cancels into db1 to discourage button presses.

D4 is an 8 frame start up and more importantly hits low. So unless they're scouting out the d4, it is very difficult for them to poke out. Just a mind game mixup. As for the reversals I tested it against Sub zero's Slide and he couldn't get it out. I believe thats the fastest special move in the game, I'll test it with KL's hat spin.

Question: Do you know what the frame gap is between 21 and the last 2 in the 212 string? That could be really important for this character.

 

[AZ MotherBrain]

I play D'vorah, but haven't messed with Swarm Queen yet. This should get me started.

 

[GambitTheFirst]

Question: Do you know what the frame gap is between 21 and the last 2 in the 212 string? That could be really important for this character.

Isn't it the startup on 212 minus cancel advantage of 21? Or vice versa?

May I request a video of the block strings with a fast reversal set to on?

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

Isn't it the startup on 212 minus cancel advantage of 21? Or vice versa?

May I request a video of the block strings with a fast reversal set to on?

Sorry I'm not entirely sure what you're looking for. There is a gap between the 21 and 2. I've been testing it with even D'vorah's armored Ovi Charge and it can hit. I'm assuming the gap is around 10 or so frames large. It can be armored out of with less than 10 frame start up and strict timing. but it CANNOT be poked out of from my attempts.

I'll continue to test

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

So, here's the deal. The 212 Can be hit out of any armored move that is 10 frames or less. HOWEVER! The timing is decently difficult and D'vorah can do 21 then block to read the armor and punish. So the mindgames in this pressure as to when the opponent should armor out is dope.

 

[BenGmanUk]

I'd expect you could back dash after 2 or 21 and punish some poke or armor attempt with f11. Need to test.

Also, is it me or does 2 seem to hit mid on most characters?

 

[OGBlacKout]

Just when I started to work on wasp cancels. Thank you this is very useful

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

I'd expect you could back dash after 2 or 21 and punish some poke or armor attempt with f11. Need to test.

Also, is it me or does 2 seem to hit mid on most characters?

Nope, F11 WGC into 212 is a 100% Frame trap. And there is no poking, parrying, or back dashing out of the last 2 string in 212.

 

[BenGmanUk]

Nope, F11 WGC into 212 is a 100% Frame trap. And there is no poking, parrying, or back dashing out of the last 2 string in 212.

I actually meant rather than d4 after a blocked 21 and getting beaten to the poke, you could back dash the poke and punish with a f11. Just tested and her back dash takes her just out of range and takes too long for a punish though.

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

I actually meant rather than d4 after a blocked 21 and getting beaten to the poke, you could back dash the poke and punish with a f11. Just tested and her back dash takes her just out of range and takes too long for a punish though.

Oh yeah, it can be poked out of, but the point of the 21 is that they're expecting the full string and you can stagger it low. If they try to poke out if you do the full 212 string they can hit. But yes back dash is a good idea to keep everything safe when needed.

 

[Deleted member 9158]

Damn, I guess I'll have to play around with her once my last exam is finished on tuesday

 

[Krayzie]

If you guys are looking for frame traps other than F11. Cancel after B2, it leaves her very plus.

You can follow up with 21, etc.

 

[Take$$$]

Can't Swarm Queen just start a vortex off of any f22 or b1 hit?

For example: b1 wc 212 db1, then njp db1 or 113. Both ways are hard knockdowns with the same damage, but the njp db1 gets you a tiny but closer I think . If you think they'll armor wakeup, you can just space yourself properly and blow it up with db4 and get the 6% or so back since you cut the combo short. If you suspect a backdash, f11, f22, and short run xx f4 all catch it and put them back in the same situation. Otherwise you have the options of b1 and f22(throw too but that doesn't put them back in the same spot), and if they guess wromg just repeat or kill them if they're on their last 40%.

Best part is if they guess right you just wc and either backdash or 21, both are safe but 21 is safer

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

Can't Swarm Queen just start a vortex off of any f22 or b1 hit?

For example: b1 wc 212 db1, then njp db1 or 113. Both ways are hard knockdowns with the same damage, but the njp db1 gets you a tiny but closer I think . If you think they'll armor wakeup, you can just space yourself properly and blow it up with db4 and get the 6% or so back since you cut the combo short. If you suspect a backdash, f11, f22, and short run xx f4 all catch it and put them back in the same situation. Otherwise you have the options of b1 and f22(throw too but that doesn't put them back in the same spot), and if they guess wromg just repeat or kill them if they're on their last 40%.

Best part is if they guess right you just wc and either backdash or 21, both are safe but 21 is safer

Yup, that's exactly right. Although why would you go for a vortex on a F22/ B1 hit when you can just convert it into a combo.

Question: Is f22 into say 21 a frame trap? I keep getting poked out of it. Also, sometimes if my timing isn't totally on point with Scorpion and Subzero (because they have a very low hit box crouch) then 2 in 212 sometimes hits high instead of mid and they poke out.

 

[Take$$$]

Yup, that's exactly right. Although why would you go for a vortex on a F22/ B1 hit when you can just convert it into a combo.

Question: Is f22 into say 21 a frame trap? I keep getting poked out of it. Also, sometimes if my timing isn't totally on point with Scorpion and Subzero (because they have a very low hit box crouch) then 2 in 212 sometimes hits high instead of mid and they poke out.

Well the f22 and b1 vortex combos do 23 and 24%, whereas the full combos themselves do 30-31%ish without meter. You're not losing that much damage, and in fact if they guess wrong even once you gain damage. If they armor and you db4 properly you get the damage you lost back. If they guess wrong twice there goes 69%+ of their life and next touch is death. You can also always mb throw to replace a combo ender to get a little extra damage yet still have them in the vortex.

What makes it very appealing is you have an answer for everything they do on wakeup. If they block they have to guess but you can backdash your df1 and be safe if they guess right(against most opponents anyway), if they backdash you have 3 options to easily catch them in it and toss them back in, you can even throw, and db4 gives you lost damage back if they armor.

I don't think f22 WC 21 is a frame trap, and most opponents will be ready to reversal you if you run and try to 21 since the f22 takes so long and they'll be ready(once people get used to her anyway), but b1 WC 21 seems very safe against most everyone since it happens so fast and they're likely to just hold block or attempt to punish too late.

 

[chemist4hire]

Have you guys tried whiffing a f4,2 on knockdown to corpse hop and reverse inputs?

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

Well the f22 and b1 vortex combos do 23 and 24%, whereas the full combos themselves do 30-31%ish without meter. You're not losing that much damage, and in fact if they guess wrong even once you gain damage. If they armor and you db4 properly you get the damage you lost back. If they guess wrong twice there goes 69%+ of their life and next touch is death. You can also always mb throw to replace a combo ender to get a little extra damage yet still have them in the vortex.

What makes it very appealing is you have an answer for everything they do on wakeup. If they block they have to guess but you can backdash your df1 and be safe if they guess right(against most opponents anyway), if they backdash you have 3 options to easily catch them in it and toss them back in, you can even throw, and db4 gives you lost damage back if they armor.

I don't think f22 WC 21 is a frame trap, and most opponents will be ready to reversal you if you run and try to 21 since the f22 takes so long and they'll be ready(once people get used to her anyway), but b1 WC 21 seems very safe against most everyone since it happens so fast and they're likely to just hold block or attempt to punish too late.

For this are you doing F22, 212, Swarm, dash njp swarm. Or just walk forward, njp swarm. Which combo puts us at the best position?

 

[Take$$$]

For this are you doing F22, 212, Swarm, dash njp swarm. Or just walk forward, njp swarm. Which combo puts us at the best position?

I've only really attempted it in 2 games since I just thought of it recently, both yesterday, but I did whichever got them closer to the corner. Walk up keeps you on the side you started the combo on, dash puts you on the other and both are almost equally close to the db1 lift. It didn't seem to make much of a difference otherwise, since you'll always have enough stamina to do whatever you want even if you run up after the knockdown.

I wonder if 113 is better than njp db1 myself, 113 is less likely to drop I guess but I have to see if there's any huge difference.

 

[BenGmanUk]

Any reason you're not doing 212~swarm, NJP, b21~swarm? You need a short walk before the NJP and b21 but it works fine and is only beaten by ex wakeups. Gives free f11 pressure or can be confirmed into f34 or whatever your raw swarm combo is.

 

[Take$$$]

For this are you doing F22, 212, Swarm, dash njp swarm. Or just walk forward, njp swarm. Which combo puts us at the best position?

Alright so njp db1 knocks them further away, but it allows for stuff like db1 on their wakeup to be a little safer than 113 since you can delay the input a bit. If you want to keep vortexing them without a db1 setup, you can still do a short run to be right on top of them in time with enough stamina for a WC combo and continue the vortex. It also gives more room for mind games than 113, but that gives you extra room to mess up as well.

113 is the safer option that will always lead to them having to guess, but gives you less options overall due to how close you end up to them on the knockdown. That is not necessarily a bad thing though, and in fact it may be the reason to use it over njp db1.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Any reason you're not doing 212~swarm, NJP, b21~swarm? You need a short walk before the NJP and b21 but it works fine and is only beaten by ex wakeups. Gives free f11 pressure or can be confirmed into f34 or whatever your raw swarm combo is.

This is especially deadly after a f11 EX Wasp, because you can run for a solid second and a half and then do this to land them straight in the corner for free pressure.