Question - Summoner Summoner Mains! did we make it?

[STB Shujinkydink]

There's been endless complaining about our character on these forums as of late. Bandwagoners have been using the "pseudo-unblockables" online and making people everywhere complain about us. I know as a Quan Chi Summoner main, it is not as easy in top competition to get this to Loop as everyone thinks it is. Plus at the highest level, characters like Shinnok, Dvorah, and Kobu Jutsu Tanya do not let us play this game. So what do you think? did NRS listen to the fools losing to the low tier quans online? Because i havent played any of the people i see complaining, and i havent seen them play michaelangelo either.

Hopefully they do the right thing and remove the pseudo unblockables as a whole with a universal nerf to 5 frames, instead of same frame and leave quan as is right now. Let's chime in on the subject as we await the stream. I will tag fellow Quan chi mains @General M2Dave @michaelangelo

 

[juicepouch]

@EGP Wonder_Chef whatever happened to your quan anyway?

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

@EGP Wonder_Chef whatever happened to your quan anyway?

I still use him. Used all Sorc quan at Evo and got 49th. Got 3rd last night at SCR Prelude 2 with a mix of Summoner and Sorc. 7th with him at SCR Prelude 1 too. Not great, but I'm still doing fine with him.

Just nobody watches West Coast tournaments, haha.

 

[legion666]

I'd love to see them buff Warlock. Maybe tracking on his f3 and df2. Or maybe make his Portal Stab a non Ex move that doesn't cost meter, so he can get a meterless vortex going saving some meter for Ex Runes and Armored wake up/reversal attacks:/

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

There's so many things they can do to Quan that it's hard to guess what direction NRS will take. With the double portal bug being discovered recently, I worry he'll get more nerfs than "normalizations."

 

[FrankOceansWaifu]

Quan's been dodging the last couple of patches but since this next one is sizing up to be a big one, I'm honestly convinced this is it.The ride has stopped. I just wanna say thank you to Dink,Puggles,zoning,rune traps and the rest of our pale brethren(Shinnok players too).It's been fun but, all good things must come to an end. R.I.P.

 

[Qwark28]

Lol.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Sorry Dink but I hope they destroy him when the patch drops.

 

[Ryncage]

The sheer amounts of downplay alone is cause enough to nerf him into the dirt. At least the quan qommunity unite under that one wholesale.

But the biggest arguement iv seen to justify his nonsense is "other characters have the same stupid, similar busted mechanics that quan has, so he shouldnt get nerfd. :,((((( cant wake up inside"

Hopefully he get sorted, and every other character with a block inf gets slammered this patch too.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

If anything changes than a fix to the 1 frame block links, and a fix to his bugs, it'll be a poor change. QC does not need nerfs at this point.



That being said, I think the tards defending the block link ridiculousness that you are now agreeing should be changed, are the main ones you have to blame if he gets it worse. The funny thing is if those threads got posted, and QC mains just said "yep, this sole mechanic of the character is pretty dumb, nothing else needs to be changed however" the threads would have died out pretty quickly with no real fire, and all would have been nearly unanimous in agreement to what you are now asking for in the OP (just the flexible timing psuedo unblockable to be removed), and the few people asking for further nerfs would have been shut down by people on both sides of the debate. Instead the bulk of you, Dink included, fought tooth and nail to keep this stupid ass shit in, and in doing so basically did everything you could to foster debate into what balance changes this character needs, so just saying it now the day before the patch that you you now think it is a fair change, is probably a little too late. So if he gets retarded changes to his low bat or something else really stupid from NRS's end, I'll be disappointed, but at the end of the day you'll have nobody to blame but yourselves, and I'll feel bad for the QC mains who did not participate in the disgusting downplay.



All that aside, it's possible NRS will get it right here. But yeah in all honesty, I'd be worrying if I was a QC main as well. Biggest patch of the release, I'm sure some changes are going to be less thought out then others, and NRS have made bad decisions relating to balance before just because there was so much debate around the character (SZ's Ice Clone), and I feel like if they go wrong with anyone, it'll likely be Quan. Hopefully they get it right, I don't want to see QC changed fundamentally in any way at all, but there's a lot of things I got my fingers crossed for tomorrow, and I know they ain't gunna get everything right

 

[M2Dave]

If some of the top tier characters are changed in a way that Quan Chi can defend against semi-block infinite combos, I will not mind an overall damage reduction and the low bat hitting mid. I personally dislike the concept of "semi-unblockables" for any character. Based on the way the game has been patched, I highly doubt the normalizations will be severe, though.

 

[legion666]

If anything changes than a fix to the 1 frame block links, and a fix to his bugs, it'll be a poor change. QC does not need nerfs at this point.



That being said, I think the tards defending the block link ridiculousness that you are now agreeing should be changed, are the main ones you have to blame if he gets it worse. The funny thing is if those threads got posted, and QC mains just said "yep, this sole mechanic of the character is pretty dumb, nothing else needs to be changed however" the threads would have died out pretty quickly with no real fire, and all would have been nearly unanimously in agreement to what you are asking for in the OP (just the flexible timing psuedo unblockable to be removed), and the few people asking for further nerfs would have been shut down by people on both sides of the debate. Instead the bulk of you, Dink included, fought tooth and nail to keep this stupid ass shit in, and in doing so basically did everything you could to foster debate into what balance changes this character needs, so just saying in the OP that you you now think it is a fair change, is probably a little too late. So if he gets retarded changes to his low bat or something else really stupid from NRS's end, I'll be disappointed, but at the end of the day you'll have nobody to blame but yourselves, and I'll feel bad for the QC mains who did not participate in the disgusting downplay.



All that aside, it's possible NRS will get it right here. But yeah in all honesty, I'd be worrying if I was a QC main as well. Biggest patch of the release, I'm sure some changes are going to be less thought out then others, and NRS have made bad decisions relating to balance before just because there was so much debate around the character (SZ's Ice Clone), and I feel like if they go wrong with anyone, it'll likely be Quan. Hopefully they get it right, I don't want to see QC changed fundamentally in any way at all, but there's a lot of things I got my fingers crossed for tomorrow, and I know they ain't gunna get everything right

I think in previous threads Dink meant that the set ups with a low bat shouldn't be taken away from Summoner (like don't make his low bat mid or don't take the ability to summon it during the trance). And here he is saying that universal removal of a 1 frame link blocks will be for the better. And I agree, if universal window for pseudo unblockable protection is widened to like 3 frames than characters like Hunter Predator and SpecOps Cassie lose it as well. And that is fair. If only Quan loses his set ups, but say Predator keeps his that is some BS.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I think in previous threads Dink meant that the set ups with a low bat shouldn't be taken away from Summoner (like don't make his low bat mid or don't take the ability to summon it during the trance).

Then your interpretation would be absolutely incorrect, as he made the video I'm about to link, and then the follow up post defending the holes in his video (such as the fact that he never actually performed the pseudo-unblockable or even blocked it) just here, and has from that point onwards done nothing but continue to defend the pseudo-unblockable, all the way up to this thread.

Spoiler

Just Gonna leave this here...

It can and thats the danger. in tournament you're trying so hard to make it frame perfect it can hit simultaneously and if that happens your opponent automatically blocks it. they dont have to guess.





1. You're right. there are lots of ways to escape it. its a 50/50 on what quans gonna do. just like most characters in this game. Shoutouts to Erron Black, Dvorah, Ferra Tor, Shinnok, Sonya Blade, Liu Kang, Ermac, Kotal Kahn, Reptile(yeah i said Reptile), raiden, Tanya, Predator and Cassie.

2. Perhaps. But the trick is wait for the low to hit and just let go of down on the pad. as long as you keep holding block it doesnt matter how fast the follow up is. Having rumble on is a saviour in this MU

3. Yes. See #1. its MKX. Quan has weaknesses though.

4. Twas implied. at least the salt was or a video would not have been made.

5. <3

And here he is saying that universal removal of a 1 frame link blocks will be for the better.

Yup, my entire point.

 

[legion666]

Then your interpretation would be absolutely incorrect, as he made the video I'm about to link, and then the follow up post defending the holes in his video (such as the fact that he never actually performed the pseudo-unblockable or even blocked it) just here, and has from that point onwards done nothing but continue to defend the pseudo-unblockable, all the way up to this thread.




Yup, my entire point.

Well, in that video he is just trying to make fun of Tom, I personally didn't take that seriously. I am not saying he wasn't defending it. He obviously was. But I mean if the threads he was posting this into were named "training against pseudo-unblockables in MKX" or "Remove the 1 frame block links from mkx" instead of "Training against Quan's pseudo unblockable vortex", or "Do we need to nerf Summoner" Dink would be more reasonable. Because getting a new "Nerf Quan" thread every week is kind of annoying when the problem with pseudo unblockables is universal, and Quan isn't the only character who can exploit that.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Well, in that video he is just trying to make fun of Tom, I personally didn't take that seriously. I am not saying he wasn't defending it. He obviously was. But I mean if the threads he was posting this into were named "training against pseudo-unblockables in MKX" or "Remove the 1 frame block links from mkx" instead of "Training against Quan's pseudo unblockable vortex", or "Do we need to nerf Summoner" Dink would be more reasonable.

That wasn't a nerf Quan thread. That was someone doing the exact opposite, and trying to figure out how to beat out without asking for nerfs. Dink posted this by page 2 of the thread, at which point absolutely nobody had asked for nerfs except for ONE person, and that one person was a freaking Quan main.

You can say "it was all in jest!" (really? ) but that really doesn't take away from the statements being made, and whether or not it was "just poking fun" ( ) really doesn't change my point in fact it more supports it, remember all I'm saying is that making such posts is what added the fuel to the fire.

Because getting a new "Nerf Quan" thread every week is kind of annoying when the problem with pseudo unblockables is universal, and Quan isn't the only character who can exploit that.

This is what I mean bro. There is arguably one thread that fits this description, the "is summoner being downplayed?" thread. Hell, I'll even give you the Tom Brady thread, even though he quite literally SPECIFIED that he was not asking for nerfs. So link me the other ones or admit that this is a wild exaggeration.


On top of all this, your last sentence kinda exemplifies why everyone thinks you guys are downplaying. We CAN discuss characters individually. Having 2 other characters with similar issues except on a smaller scale does not make QC's any better. Even less so when you AGREE that it's bad on the other two. Defending something that you know is bad, SOLELY because its the character you play, is the absolutely DEFINITION of downplay. This is why I'm worried for Quan. The downplay of legitimate issues could possibly get him looked at even further, and I really don't want to see what the character actually is, changed in any actual way.

 

[The_Tile]

Hopefully they do the right thing and remove the pseudo unblockables as a whole with a universal nerf to 5 frames, instead of same frame and leave quan as is right now.

The solution I've been saying to all the scubletts for quite a while. #BuffQuan

 

[WakeUp DP]

Nerf him to the ground, the only way scrubs will be satisfied.

Also buff Sorc Quan!

 

[ABACABB]

I hope they dont nerf anything and buff his d3 .... pls nrs pls

 

[legion666]

That wasn't a nerf Quan thread. That was someone doing the exact opposite, and trying to figure out how to beat out without asking for nerfs. Dink posted this by page 2 of the thread, at which point absolutely nobody had asked for nerfs except for ONE person, and that one person was a freaking Quan main.

You can say "it was all in jest!" (really? ) but that really doesn't take away from the statements being made, and whether or not it was "just poking fun" rolleyes really doesn't change my point in fact it more supports it, remember all I'm saying is that making such posts is what added the fuel to the fire.


This is what I mean bro. There is arguably one thread that fits this description, the "is summoner being downplayed?" thread. Hell, I'll even give you the Tom Brady thread, even though he quite literally SPECIFIED that he was not asking for nerfs. So link me the other ones or admit that this is a wild exaggeration.


On top of all this, your last sentence kinda exemplifies why everyone thinks you guys are downplaying. We CAN discuss characters individually. Having 2 other characters with similar issues except on a smaller scale does not make QC's any better. Even less so when you AGREE that it's bad on the other two. Defending something that you know is bad, SOLELY because its the character you play, is the absolutely DEFINITION of downplay. This is why I'm worried for Quan. The downplay of legitimate issues could possibly get him looked at even further, and I really don't want to see what the character actually is, changed in any actual way.

I do believe that Hunters Pseudo unblockable situation is just as broke as Quan's. And Predator only needs one combo into such set up to take your whole lifebar so it doesn't need to be a vortex. And you know even though Tom did say he wasn't asking for nerfs, his tone and every single word in that thread were implying otherwise. The fact that he created that thread right after he had lost to it at Evo and was just coated in salt, and the fact that he was asking to nerf Quan since Wonder Chef won NWM with Summoner and since Quan got only a 1 sec recovery added to the bat while the clone was made to go away on block. Dink's thread about Quan' s need of a 7 frame normal turned into a nerf Quan pretty fast as well) although, it was partially Dink's own fault))) and yeah plus that thread "Is Summoner being downplayed" ..... These 3 threads appeared in one month. So I can understand why it was annoying for Quan mains especially the ones like Dink, who use him in majors and travel for that.
I personally don't care if they nerf Summoner) as I said I'd rather see Warlock buffed than Summoner left untouched. And since Impostor Shinnok has been my main since day one I just can relate to how Quan mains feel.
Part of the reason I may be exaggerating the number of nerf Quan threads is probably because I associate them with all those nerf Shinnok threads ) hahaha
Just nerf BS but give something to Impostor please!!!!

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Nope.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

Then your interpretation would be absolutely incorrect, as he made the video I'm about to link, and then the follow up post defending the holes in his video (such as the fact that he never actually performed the pseudo-unblockable or even blocked it) just here, and has from that point onwards done nothing but continue to defend the pseudo-unblockable, all the way up to this thread.




Yup, my entire point.

The video I made was just poking fun at Brady. I don't think quan needs nerfs in any way. Just a few changes so he can stay competitive. But if they nerf the characters that have block infinites on him he'll be fine untouched

 

[omooba]

There's been endless complaining about our character on these forums as of late. Bandwagoners have been using the "pseudo-unblockables" online and making people everywhere complain about us. I know as a Quan Chi Summoner main, it is not as easy in top competition to get this to Loop as everyone thinks it is. Plus at the highest level, characters like Shinnok, Dvorah, and Kobu Jutsu Tanya do not let us play this game. So what do you think? did NRS listen to the fools losing to the low tier quans online? Because i havent played any of the people i see complaining, and i havent seen them play michaelangelo either.

Hopefully they do the right thing and remove the pseudo unblockables as a whole with a universal nerf to 5 frames, instead of same frame and leave quan as is right now. Let's chime in on the subject as we await the stream. I will tag fellow Quan chi mains @General M2Dave @michaelangelo

tried playing quan after about 6 hours my roomate could block the 'unblockable everytime which made my quanchi blah

 

[SEV]

So less than a handful of characters can cause the same effect against Quan, that he has against the entire cast? My deepest condolences.

 

[Israfel]

Quan's pseudo is very blockable. I hope they change very little on Quan as a whole if anything. I feel like there is a reason that he has been skipped over on the recent patches.

Quan is a "Finished" character IMO

 

[ienjoywinning]

He shouldn't get nerfed unless its a universal nerf to all characters with hard to blockables. Maybe if we could give him a faster poke so he stops getting bullied by liu kang , kung lao , tanya , shinnok , reptile (yup) jax and quan chi himself oh and i forgot johnny cage.