Video/Tutorial - Kotal Kahn Safe Kotal

[Chameleon_Silk]

I see a lot of people that struggle with understanding how to use Kotals slow startup specials in battle so I put this together to showcase some of the ways you can use these specials safely. I also show some of his best mix-up options using the Sun God variation.

I hope this helps some other Kotal players out there.

 

[x-azeez]

Nice Video

 

[regulas]

Cool video, though as one of the vocal complainers I will chime in that what I find problematic is not how to use them but why I would want to. Like a sun grab will land more damage then a ray will putting you in a better position so why would I want to ray?

 

[Chameleon_Silk]

8 frame wake ups make the cancel into Sunlight or God ray unsafe in the corner (know the matchup)

Cancelling into Blood Offering is always a good thing to do (unless really hurt) and should be the main goal most of the time over any other cancel. Landing a single EX burning disc after blood offering does a whooping 24 pct damage by itself, that is far more then a sun choke at 3 charges would do and its always good to enhance your already massive damage potential.

Cancelling into Sunlight or God Ray is only a good thing to do if you have fullscreen distance and not anywhere near a corner (even reptiles 5 frame EX slide fails to punish in time)

Some further food for thought below:
Burning disc = 11 pct
Ex burning disc = 16 pct
Ex burning disc with blood offering = 24 pct
Airthrow = 9 pct
Ex Airthrow = 9 pct
Ex Airthrow with blood offering = 13 pct
3 charge Choke = 16 pct
3 charge Choke with blood offering= 20 pct

 

[Chameleon_Silk]

did some testing on wakeup punishes to these cancels and have edited my original assumptions to be more then assumptions but actual facts.

 

[regulas]

Appreciate the effort, a few things;

Your damage should be considering the Blood offerings bonus not the total damage; so 8% for sun disc EX rather then 24.

The 10% self damage is significant, in MK9 these buffs were in fact entirely avoided because the self damage was considered worse then any gain, a simple way to do this is subtraction, so three ex sun dics -10% makes for 14% Benefit.

Then there is blocking. When it comes to knowing the match-ups Kotal Kahn is pretty damn easy to block, and avoiding obvious parrys (and it's set-ups) will be a big deal. Realistically I would probably average the damage between blocking and hitting, which is still giving the dmg a big beneifit as it's assuming you don't do any low dmg hits. So we are getting something closer to 16% total bonus damage at -10% self dmg for a 6% advantage, similar to what you would get for the throw. If you ever do anything lighter you rapidly loose out and start getting into negative damage.


But wait there's more, by using the blood you are loosing out on a lot of oki pressure. While you can parry set-up and hope they fall for it, you otherwise loose out on the ability to directly pressure them, which is one of the big advantages of a knocdown. This is especially bad for Blood God which is lacking in offense to begin with.

All this combined means that Blood offering can be good but it will be inconsistent, which is why the guaranteed dmg and oki tend to just be better.

 

[Tomo009]

Ok I don't want to sound mean in my response to this thread, but you COMPLETELY missed the point.

You showed some single strings into slow moves... good job? I'm not sure how to make it sound any better, that isn't going to do us any good whatsoever. To be worth it, you wouldn't want to be sacrificing much damage at all from a combo for a setup into ray or even blood offering to be worth it. I think some setups might exist but they are huge risks in this game.

If you are intent on furthering Kotal and want to find actually useful ways to use these moves, try to find some high damaging combos into these that are completely safe.

So far the thing I like most is throw into setup. Works midscreen even against a lot of forward moving fast reversals, not perfectly safe but pretty good. Good for when the opponent has lots of meter and you really don't want to risk their armour.

I do think it is a good thing to look for uses, but this video is not going to silence those of us who really don't think these moves are great, I'm not going to sacrifice like 25% GUARANTEED damage AND my oki pressure setup to get like 10% POTENTIAL damage and neutral, that is just a bad idea in 100% of situations.

 

[regulas]

Ok I don't want to sound mean in my response to this thread, but you COMPLETELY missed the point.

You showed some single strings into slow moves... good job? I'm not sure how to make it sound any better, that isn't going to do us any good whatsoever. To be worth it, you wouldn't want to be sacrificing much damage at all from a combo for a setup into ray or even blood offering to be worth it. I think some setups might exist but they are huge risks in this game.

If you are intent on furthering Kotal and want to find actually useful ways to use these moves, try to find some high damaging combos into these that are completely safe.

So far the thing I like most is throw into setup. Works midscreen even against a lot of forward moving fast reversals, not perfectly safe but pretty good. Good for when the opponent has lots of meter and you really don't want to risk their armour.

I do think it is a good thing to look for uses, but this video is not going to silence those of us who really don't think these moves are great, I'm not going to sacrifice like 25% GUARANTEED damage AND my oki pressure setup to get like 10% POTENTIAL damage and neutral, that is just a bad idea in 100% of situations.

A bit too angry guy.... he's showing ways you can get out the moves without being punished for it, for principle. Obviously you would be using a full combo before hand in most cases rather then a short one he's just making the point as to having enough frames using those. As per my post this doesn't make the move good, but this doesn't mean you should be bashing him...

 

[Tomo009]

I'm not angry at all, I tried to distance the post from sounding like that actually haha. I did say I didn't know how to make it not sound that way. Text is difficult to communicate through.

When you do these in a combo, the increased gravity means you will be at less advantage, so using the moves in the ways shown actually doesn't help.

I don't want to sound mean, I'm really trying not to, I want the moves to be good. It seems the video was trying to silence those of us who find little use out of the moves, I don't see how sacrificing 2/3rd or more of a combo's damage for the setup is going to help.

I want sun ray in particular to be useful, a combo that sacrificed maybe 4% for the ray while being completely safe would be useful I think, but I'm struggling to find anything like that.

 

[Chameleon_Silk]

The video has nothing to do with anything previously posted by anyone, I really don't give 2 flying monkeys about anything previously posted here about Kotal... this was for myself and I decided to share... if you notice I have 1 post count here and was done for myself so that I could rememeber Kotal while I learn another character.

If people are just as toxic here as on the steam discussion boards I just wont bother.

You are also looking for a combo that doesn't exist -- the best you could do is a standard combo into ex airthrow 1,2 cancel to sun ray, your gonna lose more then 4 pct damage but it will be safe.... every single one of these can be done off a jump in. If your expecting 50+ pct damage and a safe cancel with no meter then you expect Kotal to do stuff that he just can't do.

Instead of complaining go to the lab and work on a combo. As for Kotal being easy to block this is pretty much true however he still has overheads, lows and highs just like any other character just not a whole lot of them and also none that alternate high low high.

And why is this guy opening every post with "I don't want to sound mean" ahhh yes you do otherwise you'd just engage in a calm discussion.

Thanks for the warm welcome at Test Your Might....

 

[Tomo009]

I genuinely tried to make my post NOT sound that, I know people take things very personally on forums it is hard to further discussions sometimes. The fact it was your first post was exactly why I tried to avoid that angle. You posted a new thread when one on the topic already existed stating that people struggle to see the use of the move (which is true) so I assumed you were trying to further that discussion.

I have been in the lab, I've tried to find a way to really set it up and the only decent way seems to be off a throw.

Blood sacrifice though, is much easier, but you still do need to sacrifice the 10% life obviously on top of the bit of guaranteed damage. This risk can actually pay off and end up in a damage profit though, so I feel it is a much better idea.

War God suffers much less of the problems with opening people up, in fact his mix up is up there. It isn't as difficult to block as Covert Ops Sonya, but is quite similar in that any blocked normal turns into a high/low. Better mixup than most characters have without more setup I think.

You can ignore me if you will, I meant no ill will at any point. I just want to further this character and the meta as a whole, I have some issues Kotal but I'm sticking to him and think that War God is viable, just a little bit of work.

 

[Chameleon_Silk]

The main point is to make it safe to use, I've noted the moves which can punish and where they can.

I think overall sun ray when fullscreen distance is the best choice and blood offering in the corner, but with reptile you must be careful.

with blood offering in the corner you are setting up big damage with a 50/50.