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General/Other - Unbreakable Reevaluating Unbreakable Subzero

Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
I'd like to hear the Subzero community on this one. I've unfortunately been away from the game since kp1 and have since come back. I have not had the opportunity to play Unbreakable with the new buffs, but have been thinking about them a decent bit.

My question: Are we so sure that Unbreakable is still his worst variation? Dmg reduction has always been nice. And because slide has always been a threat, it now leading into a full combo seems fairly significant. Thoughts?
 
I think it's considered the worst still because it doesn't have the options that the other 2 have. Cyromancer has good dmg and grand master has all the options and setups with clone.

If I'm not mistaken I think unbreakable has the same problems GM has, in that phantom limbs can hit him even after shield and anyone with a Tele can hit opposite side and not get frozen.

Haven't played unbreakable in a long time so some of this info might not be accurate for the current game.

Don't get to play against alot of them either lol.
 

Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
Not quite. Limbs still get frozen on parry. Unbreakable has respectable dmg for no meter. Has easy upkeep on armor for no chip. And converting off of a slide seems really good.

Again, I've not been able to play the new buffed unbreakable, but based on the vids I've seen, it seems way better now.
 
It might be. I never play any unbreakable subs so I'm not sure how the char/variant is right now. Their is a unbreakable main somewhere on the sub forums I think. He was putting a guide up. May have to ask him.
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
Depends on what angle you're going with. At tournament level, Unbreakable is not viable unless you make Sonicfox-levels of reads on the parry.

If we're talking online casuals, yes, Unbreakable can work. Standing 1 is a great anti-air, he can get plus frames off of F4xxAura, he can get good damage off of B2 in the corner (42% 1 bar), parry can condition someone to play more patiently... Unbreakable isn't that good but he's not F-tier like he's regularly made out to be.
 

Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
Forget parry for a moment tho. It is my understanding that if frost aura is on, slide leaves the opponent frozen in the air.

Now aura already provides you with chip immunity. And ex aura provides you that plus like... 30% dmg reduction. And if either is active, any slide will convert to a full combo. Ex aura can be combod into as well using both b12 and b33 followed by b12 into iceball.

In addition, since regular aura can be applied any time the opponent is frozen with enough time to combo afterwards.

Imo, parry is just icing on the cake. And helps in the dvorah, takeda, and war god MUs.
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
Forget parry for a moment tho. It is my understanding that if frost aura is on, slide leaves the opponent frozen in the air.

Now aura already provides you with chip immunity. And ex aura provides you that plus like... 30% dmg reduction. And if either is active, any slide will convert to a full combo. Ex aura can be combod into as well using both b12 and b33 followed by b12 into iceball.

In addition, since regular aura can be applied any time the opponent is frozen with enough time to combo afterwards.

Imo, parry is just icing on the cake. And helps in the dvorah, takeda, and war god MUs.
It's one of those cases where it all sounds good on paper, but in practice it doesn't work out as well as you'd think. Although Aura does indeed provide nice bonuses, its bonuses like converting slides into full combos and using EX aura cancels all requires bar. Midscreen you don't get too much damage off of EX-aura cancels so it's often not worth the meter there. EX-slides do help the midscreen game because you can get like 33% 1 bar off of B2 now.

In general though, it's hard for aura to carry the whole variation. The bonuses are nice, but... I dunno they're not that spectacular on their own.
 

Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
Hmmm.. well thanks for the well thought out comments, Dutch. Idk why but I just feel like Unbreakable is, with the recent buffs, arguably on par with GM. Maybe I'm insane lol.
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
Hmmm.. well thanks for the well thought out comments, Dutch. Idk why but I just feel like Unbreakable is, with the recent buffs, arguably on par with GM. Maybe I'm insane lol.
If you think Unbreakable is on par with Grandmaster you have been smoking too much crack.

For real though, Unbreakable's neutral is just very naked. Besides stuff like F4~Aura, you have no plus frames to work eoth (neither does Grandmaster but clone is fantastic in the neutral), you don't have any mixups besides B33 and B2 and it's just generally hard to enforce your game on anyone besides using a risky parry. I'd advise you to go out into the field with Unbreakable yourself to see what he's all about, if you haven't already.
 

Laos_boy

Meow Hoes
I think unbreakable is some what decent.

Blow me up.

Sub has no plus frames outside of unbreakable ( maybe clone toss )
F4 Aura is like +2-3 which off a mid is pretty good. But f4 has shit recovery which is the down side. But he also has ex parry/parry to cover his slight negative frames. Thatll make opponents want to bait the parry or just jump and one of the those options are reactable.

And ex slide is a decent reversal and is a threat in the neutral

He just requires way more thinking than the normal mkx character.

But imagine if another character had unbreakablez tools.
 

Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
I actually look forward to doing so, Dutch. Like I said, I haven't been able to. Gotta buy a ps4. Thanks wb/nrs lol.

I just think he has more potential now in the neutral. Extremely dangerous oki outside of the corner.

I'm open to hearing opinions though. The crack I'm smoking is alright :)
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
I think unbreakable is some what decent.

Blow me up.

Sub has no plus frames outside of unbreakable ( maybe clone toss )
F4 Aura is like +2-3 which off a mid is pretty good. But f4 has shit recovery which is the down side. But he also has ex parry/parry to cover his slight negative frames. Thatll make opponents want to bait the parry or just jump and one of the those options are reactable.

And ex slide is a decent reversal and is a threat in the neutral

He just requires way more thinking than the normal mkx character.

But imagine if another character had unbreakablez tools.
I'm not gonna deny and say F4~Aura really helps Unbreakable in the neutral, it gives him a way to force respect out of the opponent that is not clone like how Grandmaster does it.

The 'problem' here is that once you have Aura on, you can no longer use this valuable neutral tool. You'll have to get rid of the Aura somehow if you want to regain your plus frames. But when you do that, you no longer get the benefits of EX-slide combos and nullified chip. It's a constant management of your Aura.

"So you have to use your brain for a change Dutch." Using your brain for Aura management isn't bad at all, but without the mixups of Cryomancer to back you up or the clone to dictate the pace of the match it becomes a problem.

"Alright so you just use parry." Which is in turn full combo punishable and they better not be jumping in on you. Another thing with parry is that it loses to Oki constantly. Normal parry is 6 frames which is slow as balls for a parry. EX-parry is 3 frames, but you have to spend a bar on this high risk, decent reward move. Even more so, you kinda need your bar for stuff like EX iceball and EX-slide wakeups and reversals.

I agree, Unbreakable is somewhat decent. He's on the bottom of the tier list for sure, but in this game that doesn't say much at all.

Also Kitana doesn't suck sue me.
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
I actually look forward to doing so, Dutch. Like I said, I haven't been able to. Gotta buy a ps4. Thanks wb/nrs lol.

I just think he has more potential now in the neutral. Extremely dangerous oki outside of the corner.

I'm open to hearing opinions though. The crack I'm smoking is alright :)
It's very important to know the distinction between theory and practice. I've caught myself many times going "Pff you guys are just downplaying again, this character isn't nearly as bad as you make him/her out to be." Next thing you know I play the character and I get mopped. The lab can be hype, but the hype doesn't always extend outside of the lab.
 
It's very important to know the distinction between theory and practice. I've caught myself many times going "Pff you guys are just downplaying again, this character isn't nearly as bad as you make him/her out to be." Next thing you know I play the character and I get mopped. The lab can be hype, but the hype doesn't always extend outside of the lab.
This is so true.

Lab hype can ruin you sometimes lol.
 

boba_buster

Noob saibot
I think it's considered the worst still because it doesn't have the options that the other 2 have. Cyromancer has good dmg and grand master has all the options and setups with clone.

If I'm not mistaken I think unbreakable has the same problems GM has, in that phantom limbs can hit him even after shield and anyone with a Tele can hit opposite side and not get frozen.

Haven't played unbreakable in a long time so some of this info might not be accurate for the current game.

Don't get to play against alot of them either lol.
Umm everything u said was wrong
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
His EX slide is nice, but his other tools are hard to use effectively - and he seems slow to build meter.
 

Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
I will admit, i was under the impression that if aura was up, regular slide froze. I must have misseen the videos i saw on the changes.

That changes things imo.