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PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale: Notes on 3/19/13 Balance Patch

PoliceBrutality

Let's go green!!!!
Here is the post from Seth Killian

"Hi guys,

This is Seth Killian from Sony Santa Monica. As some of you know, when Zeus and Isaac launch on 3/19, there's also going to be a significant balance and bug-fixing patch going live for All-Stars. I wanted the hardcore players to have a chance to digest some of the upcoming changes in advance, so I'm sharing these notes with you before they go live in the game next week.

**All balance notes now complete below, with additional information beginning after Kat with Kratos.

xoxo,
Seth
--


General Combat Changes:
--- Characters can not Block or Evade until frame 5 after landing during an air attack; Previously they were able to do so on the first frame if landing during air attacks
--- Characters have been standardized to not be able to Super until frame 12 after landing during an air attack
--- While blocking a hit while already in Block Hit reaction, character’s X velocity no longer gets set to zero



Character changes:

Big Daddy
--- Air Forward Triangle has 11 additional frames of start up
--- Air Down Square now gains 20 AP (up from 10), and victim’s reaction is reduced by 3 frames
--- Level 1 Super now has an additional hit volume that occurs on frame 36 and causes a Butt Drop reaction. Little Sister will then land as a killing blow to most victims of this earlier hit
--- Level 2 Super - Triangle attacks are sped up
--- Level 3 Super:
--- Attacks now breakout 6 frames earlier
--- Attacks now become active on frame 9 (previously 12)
--- Adjusted hit volume on attack to be more centered around Big Daddy
--- Victims can now swim faster
--- Fixed a bug where floating characters would get stuck upon entering Infinite Avoidance



Good Cole
--- Forward Square -> Square hit volume enlarged to hit small characters even if they are in Crumple reaction
--- Moved 4 frames of recovery time from the Neutral Triangle attack state to the exit state
--- Lowered recovery of ground neutral circle to 20 from 28 frames
--- Level 3 Super - Movement speed of tornado has been increased



Dante
--- Dante can change his facing direction between attacks during his Square and Forward Square Combo
--- Up Square is now jump-cancellable on both active frames
--- Air Neutral Square hit volumes adjusted to combo more consistently against short characters
--- Down Square (Helm Breaker) generates 20 AP now (previously 10)
--- Up Triangle has 2 more frames before Dante can cancel into the Counter (Neutral Circle)
--- Neutral Circle (Counter) has reduced active time (25 frames, down from 30) and increased recovery by 5
--- Level 1 Super cost reduced to 125 (previously 150)
--- Level 2 Super cost reduced to 325 (previously 400)



Drake
--- Neutral Circle (Barrel):
No longer explodes if countered or destroyed by opponents
Increased size of hurtbox
Explosion is now only active for 5 frames (previously 30)
Lifetime reduced 24 frames
Teammates will no longer cause damage to barrel
If Drake is hit by twitch attacks while creating the barrel, the barrel will still come out
--- Up Triangle - Explosion is now only active for 5 frames (previously 15)
--- Up Square - Explosion is now only active for 5 frames (previously 15)
--- Level 1 Super hit volume reduced (from 2.25 meters to 1.85 meters)
--- Level 3 Super - Drake and the Descendants now become controllable at the same time, 50 frames after the Super is initiated



Emmett Graves
--- Level 2 Super cost reduced to 325 (previously 350)



Evil Cole
--- Forward Square -> Square hit volume enlarged to hit small characters even if they are in a Crumple reaction
--- Moved 4 frames of recovery time from the Neutral Triangle attack state to the exit state
--- Neutral Triangle Overload has an increased explosion hit box (from 5 meters to 5.5 meters). Evil Cole also recovers from the Overload state after 40 frames (previously 70)
--- Neutral Circle max punch start-up increased by 4 frames from 6 to 10, super armor reduced to 10 AP, active hitbox decreased from 13 to 11, increased recovery by 2 frames
--- Stand and Air Up Circle AP standardized to 5, 5, 20
--- Up Throw trajectory changed to no longer allow guaranteed follow up into Level 1 Super
--- Level 2 Super start-up reduced from 26 frames to 16
--- Level 2 Super now blows up it’s victims much faster, but it can be extended to the full length by holding R2. You also now drain AP from the victims as you grab them, instead of at the very end of the super



Fat Princess
--- Neutral Square now causes Light Overhead reaction and gains 5 AP
--- Armor does not activate until frame 6 (was frame 1) on Charge Up Neutral Square
--- Air Forward Circle (Summon Warrior) now has 21 additional frames of start-up as well as longer recovery
--- If Fat Princess summons any assists in the air she will land in the Attack Land state instead of the normal land state
--- Level 3 Super - Increased number of mages and bombs that show up and removed delay of warriors showing up



Heihachi
--- Up Square - Will not collide with other players for the first 26 frames of the attack allowing second hit to hit easier if first hit whiffs
--- Air Up Triangle - Now gains 20 AP (previously 10)
--- VFX for Wind God Fist and Electric Wind God Fist changed to be more distinguishable
--- Level 2 Super will no longer be extended if Heihachi is hit by a freeze missile



Jak
--- Air Forward Square now activates on frame 6, so it no longer drives through opponents
--- Neutral Triangle - Now causes a heavy reaction and gains 20 AP (previously 10.) Has faster start-up (20 frames, previously 28) and increased recovery (18 frames, previously 8)
--- Air and Stand Forward Triangle - Last hit no longer causes Eject Roll and each shot now gains 6 AP (previously 10); In addition, the shots fire faster faster (12 frames apart, down from 15) and travel 2 meters less (down to 9 meters); You can also hold the button down to continue to fire
--- Air and Stand Neutral Circle (Drone) now bounces off of walls and level bounds instead of exploding on contact; Also lasts 1 second longer so that it can fire a total of 21 shots (previously 12) The shots also have an increased lifetime (from 0.225 seconds to 0.3).
--- Air and Stand Forward Circle has increased range (~8 meters) and speed, causes a Mini-Launch Lift reaction, and will gain 20 AP (previously 10)
--- Air and Stand Up Circle has has a reduced start up (25 frames, previously 41) and 2 frames more frames of recovery
--- Down Circle has a reduced hit volume (50% smaller) and no longer hits behind Jak
--- Level 1 Super cost reduced to 125 (previously 150)



Kat
--- Is now considered on the ground for the first 10 frames of jumping (previously 9)
--- Kat’s Backwards Roll now works like the rest of the cast
--- Ground Down Square’s reaction caused is 1 frame less (50 to 49) and Down Triangle cancel times have increased by 1 frame (9 to 10 frames) to prevent Down Square, Down Triangle->Square infinite.
--- Level 1 Super will no longer kill people who have a Gravity Shield


[Begin part 2]

Kratos
--- Last hit of Square Combo is now increased from 0 to -10 on block.
--- Reduced blocked frame disadvantage on 2nd neutral square to -10 from -14.
--- Neutral Triangle - In certain situations, this move could previously gain up to 40 AP. It should now only gain 20 AP in all situations.



Nariko
--- Air Up Square - Increased start-up by 2 frames; Gravity turns back on later in the attack reducing instant short hop spam
--- Air Down Triangle - Causes Heavy Slam Down reaction when victim is grabbed from the air (or if not on ground)
--- Air Up Circle on land will complete entire animation instead of prematurely truncating it
--- Level 2 Super cost decreased to 325 (previously 350)
--- Level 2 Super - Fire limit has been removed and rate of fire has been decreased. Turning the cannon around will knock any nearby opponent away
--- Level 3 Super - Ends Super during circle move if the timer is done
--- Fixed a bug where Narioko's level 3 Super would not end if Nariko held block



Parappa
--- Stand Forward Square does not push the victim as far away, allowing Parappa to follow up with more attacks
--- Stand Down Square chain into Stand Forward Square has been be removed to allow easier input into the Stand Up Square combo
--- Level 2 Super - Skateboard time shortened to 4 seconds (previously 5 seconds)
--- Down Circle Boxy will not repeatedly eject AP when dropped inside a ledge



Radec
--- Up Circle active frames increased by 30 (Upped from 40 to 70 frames)



Ratchet
--- Ratchet is now considered on the ground for the first 10 frames of jumping (previously 9)
--- Neutral Circle (Mr. Zurkon) now shoots 15 shots (previously 17) and each shot is worth 2 AP (previously 1 AP)
--- Down Circle (Tesla Spike) has 6 AP of durability (previously 1)
--- Removed hit volumes on Ratchet's throw victims
--- Shrunk Level 1 Super’s physics collision hitboxes on projectiles by 90% to make kills when firing up ramps work better
--- Level 2 Clank can now be hit by Raiden’s Level 2 initial burst hit and Jak’s level 2 initial shock hit.



Raiden
--- Air Down Triangle, Air Forward Circle and Air Forward Triangle are all more punishable on block
--- Down Throw now causes a bounce reaction, allowing combo follow-ups
--- Level 1 Super - Removed stick velocity during the Super and increased recovery by 8 frames
--- Level 2 Super - Air Square and Air Triangle attacks are no longer block-able
--- Level 3 Super:
--- Game camera will now follow boxes controlled by NPCs (previously the camera only followed boxes controlled by players)
--- Fixed bug where NPC Boxes would not disappear
--- Air Up Circle move (during Super 3) will not puppet the Box or victim



Sackboy
--- Neutral Triangle (Jam Session) has start-up reduced to 40 frames (previously 57)
--- Forward Triangle - You can now roll and jump cancel during the charge portion of this attack; This move’s frame advantage has also been increased +5 on hit--- Sackboy now considered on the ground for the first 10 frames of jumping (previously 9)
--- Down Square (Bounce Pad) now goes away after 0.3 seconds (previously, the Bounce Pad would stay out as long as the button was held down), in line with the behavior of the air version
--- Stand and Air Down Circle (Electric Panel) has 16 more frames of start-up; If Sackboy is hit before frame 16 it prevents the panel from coming out; Breakout on this move has been removed
--- Down Circle Electric Panel can now be absorbed and reflected
--- Neutral Circle (Cake Mine) will disappear after 5 seconds
--- Level 1 Super cost reduced to 125 (previously 150)
--- Level 2 Super cost reduced to 325 (previously 400)
--- Level 3 Super victim bubbles are able to move 50% faster



Sir Daniel
--- Sir Dan Level 1 Super’s active hit frames increased by 8; Recovery on this Super has been reduced by 4 frames
--- Level 2 Super - The Homing Spirits now have delayed activation; They will now not blow up on opponents as they leave the Chalice; This improves the consistency of the Super and improves the chance that there will be one Homing Spirit per opponent
--- Level 2 Super cost reduced to 325 (previously 350)
--- Down Throw - Sir Daniel will no longer end up on the wrong side of the victim after this throw



Sly Cooper
--- Sly Cooper is now considered on the ground for the first 10 frames of jumping (previously 9)
--- Neutral Circle (Counter) is now only active for 15 frames (previously 26) and has 25 frames of ground recovery (previously 11)
--- Level 1 Super - Super is cancelled if Sly is hit during start up; Vulnerable from frames 5 until the first frame of Murray’s hit volume
--- Level 1 Super - The hit volume that appears when Murray splats onto the ground has been made smaller



Spike
--- Spike now considered on the ground for the first 10 frames of jumping (previously 9)
--- Forward Square changed from an Eject Tornado to a Butt Drop reaction if it is not fully charged
--- Air Down Triangle now gains 5 AP (previously 10 AP), does Shock Rumble reaction, has correct hit stun and can be countered by projectile counters
--- Neutral Circle has an extra 5 AP running hit added to second stage of the attack
--- Throws have been remapped to be more intuitive
--- Down Throw: Crash Hurricane (causes Flatten)
--- Forward Throw: Monkey Trip! (causes Eject Roll)
--- Up Throw: Sonic Revolution (cases Eject Tornado)
--- Monkey Trip! (Forward Throw) now causes Eject Roll and is no longer frame negative on success
--- Level 2 Super - The projectile travels faster and explodes on impact with solid walls
--- Level 1 and Level 2 super can change facing direction at start of super



SweetTooth
--- Stand Neutral Triangle can now be directed while it is active; Now gains 30 AP (upped from 8 AP) from a victim caught in front with all hits; Victims hit on the back side get ejected (Light reaction before) and also earn 30 AP (upped from 10)
--- Air Neutral Triangle AP gain upped to 30 on all hits (used to be 25 for front hits and 15 on back hits)
--- Stand and Air Up Triangle (Machete Toss) after a successful hit now continues through all opponents. Machete on ground no longer has a hit volume
--- Level 2 Super - Explosion radius increased by 0.5 meters, control strength increased, speed increased, minimum detonation time decreased by 9 frames to 6 (previously 15)
--- Level 3 Super - Reduced active time from 15 second to 13.5



Toro
--- Toro's Ground Neutral Circle’s duration is now infinite
--- Level 1 Super - Toro can now turn around during the first 5 frames of activation and will no longer slide
--- Level 2 Super - Toro can now turn around during the first 5 frames of activation and will no longer slide during the activation if he was running
--- Air Up Triangle can only be used once per jump
--- Toro's Oni Air Down Triangle has 9 frames increased start-up and 4 frames more recovery



Items
--- Doubled LR3 Railgun hit volume thickness and reduced aiming sensitivity
--- Added 21 AP of armor to Spear of Destiny start-up and active frames, and increased initial AP gain amount from 10 to 20
--- Increased Sonic Rift hit volume sizes
--- Extended Sturgeon power swing armor to end of active period
--- Opponents can no longer generate AP or pick up AP orbs while Sackbot is attached
--- Opponents can no longer counter the AP eject attacks caused by Sackbot or Murder of Crows"
 

PoliceBrutality

Let's go green!!!!
Well my main Drake got a pretty heavy nerf, but im working on Kat now anyway. Still want to see how he plays post patch
 

IceNine

Tired, But Strong
oh no. Raiden's level 3 puts everybody in boxes, so the following item/point are part of his level 3 details
Oh, duh. The bullets on those points somehow made it not occur to me that they weren't separate from whatever change was intended for that line.
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
I stopped playing once I figured out that Big Daddy was bad.

Seemed like the balance was kind of terrible in this game.
 
I stopped playing once I figured out that Big Daddy was bad.

Seemed like the balance was kind of terrible in this game.
I stopped playing when I accidentally linked my online account to my Playstation Vita (Because you got a code to download the game for free on Vita), spent hours on the phone with Sony tech support only to be told they couldn't do anything and that I was pretty much forced to purchase the game again if I wanted to play online.

When the game initially released, you could not purchase an online access code. I would hope by now that you can at least purchase an online access code (probably somewhere between $10-$20 bones).

It honestly discouraged me from even wanting to play this game. I liked Toro for the brief period of time that I did though.
 

PoliceBrutality

Let's go green!!!!
I stopped playing when I accidentally linked my online account to my Playstation Vita (Because you got a code to download the game for free on Vita), spent hours on the phone with Sony tech support only to be told they couldn't do anything and that I was pretty much forced to purchase the game again if I wanted to play online.

When the game initially released, you could not purchase an online access code. I would hope by now that you can at least purchase an online access code (probably somewhere between $10-$20 bones).

It honestly discouraged me from even wanting to play this game. I liked Toro for the brief period of time that I did though.
Yeah they do have an online pass for $10 I believe. To be honest I wasnt really sure how many ppl on this forum was still playing hehe. But I thought I would share the patch note anyway. The whole situation about your code sucks. Sorry to hear about that :(
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
Yeah they do have an online pass for $10 I believe. To be honest I wasnt really sure how many ppl on this forum was still playing hehe. But I thought I would share the patch note anyway. The whole situation about your code sucks. Sorry to hear about that :(
yeah I really enjoyed the system, but the balance was just too far gone for my taste
 

KIllaByte

PSN: playakid700. Local name: BFGC MonkeyBizness
Here's your negativity:
Kratos Up+Square trollery remains unnoticed- That move has huge range, and what, .08 recovery frames?
Evil Cole getting buffed is insane- his nerfs are nice, though- well executed.
They fucking nerfed one of three of Jak's useful moves.
And, Sweet Tooth's chainsaw will still be completely useless, knowing that a horizontal shotgun in either direction generates the same amount of AP, in one one hundreth of the time that the chainsaw does. The chainsaw can on;y become practical if it were to build 55 AP per strike.
The Sackboy nerfs are unnecessary, aren't they? He takes the hardest nerf, when he was what, mid-tier?
Here's your positivity:
Every gameplay tweak and item tweak is brilliant, as are most of the changes. Shoutouts to Superbot, yo. They're still hype AF. The Dante changes especially are brilliant.


See you Tuesday.
 

KIllaByte

PSN: playakid700. Local name: BFGC MonkeyBizness
PoliceBrutality
My opinion on the changes depend highly upon how effectively we will be able to control Sweet Tooth's movement during this new chainsaw attack.
The Machete toss is finally what it needs to be- I love the idea of the collateral-
but all of these are completely offset by his level three being nerfed down to 13.5 seconds.
It's completely ridiculous. Not only do they take away his level one kill confirm, but also a final stage clar on his level three is likely to be gone- minimizing the chance of him winning an FFA.
My meter building with Sweet Tooth was fine- and that's what they buffed.
However, the results of the match are not determined by meter building, or even overall skill- they are determined by a Kill to Death ratio- and now, scoring kills with him, is even more impossible than it used to be.
Though I will continue to fight such impossible odds.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
no he isn't lol

in fact they slowed down one of his moves....
That's one of the Nerfs but universally he got Buffed.

Buffs
---Air Down Square now gains 20 AP (up from 10), and victims reaction is reduced 3 frames
(Second part is a minor nerf.)
---Level 1 Super now has an additional hit volume that occurs on frame 36 an causes a Butt Drop reaction. Little Sister will then land as a killing blow to most victims of this earlier hit.
---Level 2 Super - Triangle attacks are sped up
---Level 3 Super:
---Attacks now breakout 6 frames earlier
---Attacks now become active on frame 9 (previously 12)
---Adjusted hit volume on attack to be more centered around Big Daddy

Nerfs
---Air Foward Triangle has 11 additional frames of start up
---Air Down Square now gains 20 AP (up from 10), and victims reaction is reduced 3 frames
(Second part is a minor nerf.)
---Level 3 Super: Victims can now swim faster


Your Supers are better now and that's the important part.
 

PoliceBrutality

Let's go green!!!!
PoliceBrutality
My opinion on the changes depend highly upon how effectively we will be able to control Sweet Tooth's movement during this new chainsaw attack.
The Machete toss is finally what it needs to be- I love the idea of the collateral-
but all of these are completely offset by his level three being nerfed down to 13.5 seconds.
It's completely ridiculous. Not only do they take away his level one kill confirm, but also a final stage clar on his level three is likely to be gone- minimizing the chance of him winning an FFA.
My meter building with Sweet Tooth was fine- and that's what they buffed.
However, the results of the match are not determined by meter building, or even overall skill- they are determined by a Kill to Death ratio- and now, scoring kills with him, is even more impossible than it used to be.
Though I will continue to fight such impossible odds.
Hopefully you will find a couple of setups for his level 2. Your defense was always on point, although I dont know how you are going to manage with the whole "not being able to block or dodge after an air dodge" system change. I can already see Sir Dan being annoying up close after he launches into electric arrow. If you manage to dodge the arrow you land right in from of him. Your only option is to attack since you cant block. Hopefully im overreacting when thinking about this senario.

The one thing im super happy about is the cool down on kratos 3x square string. Although i wished they'd also nerf the up square as well. I really hate when ppl spam that move (ugh). BTW raiden seems to have comedown the tier list quite a bit. I guess we'll have to wait and see :rolleyes:
 

PoliceBrutality

Let's go green!!!!
Big Daddy is getting a speed Buff!

PS: My mains Evil Cole and Dante got buffs! =)
Well E. Cole did get some buffs but the main concern has been taking care of

--- Neutral Circle max punch start-up increased by 4 frames from 6 to 10, super armor reduced to 10 AP, active hitbox decreased from 13 to 11, increased recovery by 2 frames

That's a decent nerf if you ask me. it's a little unsafe now so I dont think ppl will be able to mash on level 1 anymore after the giga punch is blocked. At the same time we are talking about 2 frames here lol (I still think that's plenty of time to punish)
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Well E. Cole did get some buffs but the main concern has been taking care of

--- Neutral Circle max punch start-up increased by 4 frames from 6 to 10, super armor reduced to 10 AP, active hitbox decreased from 13 to 11, increased recovery by 2 frames

That's a decent nerf if you ask me. it's a little unsafe now so I dont think ppl will be able to mash on level 1 anymore after the giga punch is blocked. At the same time we are talking about 2 frames here lol (I still think that's plenty of time to punish)
I didn't even notice that nerf...

Fuck..

lol. Well at least Kratos got Nerfed a lil. They should have Nerfed his F1...

Edit: And that was already unsafe.
 

PoliceBrutality

Let's go green!!!!
Here's your negativity:
Kratos Up+Square trollery remains unnoticed- That move has huge range, and what, .08 recovery frames?
Evil Cole getting buffed is insane- his nerfs are nice, though- well executed.
They fucking nerfed one of three of Jak's useful moves.
And, Sweet Tooth's chainsaw will still be completely useless, knowing that a horizontal shotgun in either direction generates the same amount of AP, in one one hundreth of the time that the chainsaw does. The chainsaw can on;y become practical if it were to build 55 AP per strike.
The Sackboy nerfs are unnecessary, aren't they? He takes the hardest nerf, when he was what, mid-tier?
Here's your positivity:
Every gameplay tweak and item tweak is brilliant, as are most of the changes. Shoutouts to Superbot, yo. They're still hype AF. The Dante changes especially are brilliant.


See you Tuesday.
Oh I almost missed this post. I do agree with you on the E. Cole buffs, he definitely didnt need them. Kratos Up square still remains a concern to me. it feels like it is literally +3 on block :D. I dont know about you but I do agree with the sackboy nerfs...maybe not the eletric pad but the damn bounce pad need to be tweaked. The ability to hold it out as long as the player was holding down the button was a bit ridiculous. Sly electric roll was left untouched as well. That's another spamming move that should have been addressed, but given the heavy nerf that he'd had received I think i'll live with it lol
 

PoliceBrutality

Let's go green!!!!
I didn't even notice that nerf...

Fuck..

lol. Well at least Kratos got Nerfed a lil. They should have Nerfed his F1...

Edit: And that was already unsafe.
I was hoping they would also reduce the range on that forward 1 move. Sometimes I think im pretty safe from it by spacing pretty far only that find out that I was still too close lol