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Tech - A-List Johnny Cage Pressure/Combo tech

A

AskMeLater

Noob
hey all so I was messing around with A list johnny cage today specifically looking at his unique special moves in that variation. I figured there had to be something more than just his standard F3, run cancel, into F24.
I started playing around with his BF4 move and cancelling it from some of his universal strings and found something pretty nice. If you cancel his 113 string into BF4 then cancel that into run into F24 it creates a nasty situation for whoever is blocking it.

On hit the entire string will combo,
On block they have to block low then quickly high, and even if they somehow block it all F24 is only -5

the inputs are as follows:
113xxBF4, run cancel, F24, into combo I usually do a D1, F3xxBD3 for 25%
Obviously there are more combo options but the part I wanted to highlight is that first part of the string.

The timing is kind of odd, run canceling his BF4 is definitely not as easy as say run canceling his F34.
I know this isn't ground breaking but its a nice option for Johnny to have.
 
Mikemetroid

Mikemetroid

Who hired this guy, WTF?
Seeing as how he doesn't have any other overhead or low starters, its pretty safe to quickly block high after 113.

Try going into training mode, put reptile or kunglao on reversal, see if you can do the pressure without getting dashed/spun.
 
A

AskMeLater

Noob
Haven't had time to test the kung lao/reptile reversal thing you mentioned, but just from eye balling it it looks like a true block string.
But even if they can reversal out it just adds another layer to the mix up, Im not saying after 113 you should go overhead everytime obviously mix it up with another 113, F3 run cancel, grab, ect and even if they can reversal out you can always bait it out by canceling the run into block.

Point is doing this puts you at advantage after using an otherwise unsafe string, which as you mentioned is his only low option for combos so why not make it safe regardless of what you do afterwards.
 
#GreenHalo

#GreenHalo

Noob
Been experimenting with what you said basically for the past two days. I haven't found any groundbreaking discoveries, but I do find that these players have very itchy fingers, like try to convince a Scorpion to sit for a 4-5 second blockstring. I think the great part about A List is when we get better we can consistently keep ourselves safe and keep a fundamentally powerful setup-punish game.
*edit* which, I think this game rewards more than big combos.
 
A

AskMeLater

Noob
Yea in the days since I made this post I've tested it out just a bit more, turns out the 113,BF4, into run, into F24 is not a true block string. You can be beat by a d1,d3,uppercut, ex moves, ect. Idk if I'm not doing it fast enough but the few times ive tried I feel I'm doin it pretty damn fast.
Ps if u cancel the BF4 into a back dash instead of a run you will avoid most of the normal pokes however the special moves will most likely still hit depending on the character.

however, I still keep the cancel in my arsenal, I just have to go about it a bit differently.
Usually when i play Johnny people for some reason don't block high against me so I just spam F24 into combo till I win, but in the off chance I run into someone who knows to block high I change the game plan up a little.

Once my opponent is so afraid of that overhead I start bringing in that 113 string into the mix. What I like to do is cancel my 113 into ex projectile, usually since they are blocking high the low part of the string will hit and then the projectile will connect for a solid 17%.
once they start blocking low I will still cancel 113 into ex projectile since it leaves johnny at some crazy plus frames.
eventually when they keep blocking the 113 expecting the ex projectile, I will then begin incorporating that run cancel to hit them with that overhead after the 113.
BTW 113xx Projectile is a true block string so don't be afraid to throw it out, I feel johnny can be a bit more lenient with his meter in this variation since you don't really need it for combos
This honestly depends on conditioning your opponent to do what you want them to do once you get a read on how they like to play.
Some people even prefer to just stand block and take the low hit of the string and avoid the overhead at all cost once they start doing that the cancel is wonderful since that low hit can lead to a full combo.

Again in my opinion if your opponent blocks the 113 you should:
A. Cancel into BF4 then backdash
B. Cancel into ex projectile
C. If you're feeling lucky or you think you have a read cancel into BF4 than into F24 into combo.

I usually go with A or B just because like you said ppl like to hit buttons.
I think this variation is very reliant on conditioning, punishing, spacing ect. Its not easy to use but winning with A list is very satisfying.

At the end of the day use a lot of F3 into run cancel, that move is god like
make 113 "safe", well safer by using options A or B
and if all else fails go full screen and spam projectiles ( the anti air one really gets on their nerves)
 
Epy69zSmallBoys

Epy69zSmallBoys

No respect for Kung Jin
AskMeLater said:
Yea in the days since I made this post I've tested it out just a bit more, turns out the 113,BF4, into run, into F24 is not a true block string. You can be beat by a d1,d3,uppercut, ex moves, ect. Idk if I'm not doing it fast enough but the few times ive tried I feel I'm doin it pretty damn fast.
Ps if u cancel the BF4 into a back dash instead of a run you will avoid most of the normal pokes however the special moves will most likely still hit depending on the character.

however, I still keep the cancel in my arsenal, I just have to go about it a bit differently.
Usually when i play Johnny people for some reason don't block high against me so I just spam F24 into combo till I win, but in the off chance I run into someone who knows to block high I change the game plan up a little.

Once my opponent is so afraid of that overhead I start bringing in that 113 string into the mix. What I like to do is cancel my 113 into ex projectile, usually since they are blocking high the low part of the string will hit and then the projectile will connect for a solid 17%.
once they start blocking low I will still cancel 113 into ex projectile since it leaves johnny at some crazy plus frames.
eventually when they keep blocking the 113 expecting the ex projectile, I will then begin incorporating that run cancel to hit them with that overhead after the 113.
BTW 113xx Projectile is a true block string so don't be afraid to throw it out, I feel johnny can be a bit more lenient with his meter in this variation since you don't really need it for combos
This honestly depends on conditioning your opponent to do what you want them to do once you get a read on how they like to play.
Some people even prefer to just stand block and take the low hit of the string and avoid the overhead at all cost once they start doing that the cancel is wonderful since that low hit can lead to a full combo.

Again in my opinion if your opponent blocks the 113 you should:
A. Cancel into BF4 then backdash
B. Cancel into ex projectile
C. If you're feeling lucky or you think you have a read cancel into BF4 than into F24 into combo.

I usually go with A or B just because like you said ppl like to hit buttons.
I think this variation is very reliant on conditioning, punishing, spacing ect. Its not easy to use but winning with A list is very satisfying.

At the end of the day use a lot of F3 into run cancel, that move is god like
make 113 "safe", well safer by using options A or B
and if all else fails go full screen and spam projectiles ( the anti air one really gets on their nerves)
Click to expand...
Best post I've read so far in all the Johnny threads
 
Sulfur

Sulfur

Winning feels better when you take a little damage
I was so pumped when I read this at first, reading further; it seems that the more I learn about Johnny Cage; the more I realize he's not all that great.
I hope somebody comes up with some good tech for him soon otherwise he might be taking a back seat to other characters I wanna play.
 
A

AskMeLater

Noob
Alphabattack said:
How are you getting that information? Because when I do 113xxbf4 and run cancel it, Kung Lao's ex spin gets blocked.
Click to expand...
The only possible way it could be getting blocked is that they are not inputting the ex spin as a reversal.
Idk how you are testing it but when i did it i put johnny as AI while i controlled kung lao. Record johnny doing the string and try to ex spin out. It works everytime.
Sorry but the cancel is not safe. Like at all. Seriously.
 
A

Alphabattack

Noob
AskMeLater said:
The only possible way it could be getting blocked is that they are not inputting the ex spin as a reversal.
Idk how you are testing it but when i did it i put johnny as AI while i controlled kung lao. Record johnny doing the string and try to ex spin out. It works everytime.
Sorry but the cancel is not safe. Like at all. Seriously.
Click to expand...
I set an AI Kung Lao to do a Reversal EX Spin, so if the training reversal system doesn't work properly, that would have affected my test.

Edit: I just tried it again, except this time, I recorded Johnny doing the string then blocking, and I did the EX spin, and it always says reversal, but sometimes it would hit and sometimes it wouldn't, so it may be just a reversal timing, where the earliest reversal can get it, and later it can't. But with that, if I don't input it fast enough, it would also affect what I'm saying.

Edit: So I found that if the 1st hit of Johnny's 113 whiffs, then you can punish with EX Spin, but if it connects, then you can't punish it. I think. I'll link my two videos below in a sec
 
Last edited:
A

Alphabattack

Noob
Alright. So this Video is where I am Kung Lao, and I set Johnny to do 113xxrunxxBlock. It says in the corner that I am getting the reversal EX spin so that is good, and Johnny Still blocks it. If the first hit whiffs, then you can't block in time. Not sure why that is, just is.

The second video is where I control Johnny and I set Kung Lao to do Reversal EX Spin. I block it the first time. Show what it looks like without the cancel, and then show just how long it takes johnny to end his animation.
 
rafaw

rafaw

#YouSuck
Alphabattack said:
Alright. So this Video is where I am Kung Lao, and I set Johnny to do 113xxrunxxBlock. It says in the corner that I am getting the reversal EX spin so that is good, and Johnny Still blocks it. If the first hit whiffs, then you can't block in time. Not sure why that is, just is.

The second video is where I control Johnny and I set Kung Lao to do Reversal EX Spin. I block it the first time. Show what it looks like without the cancel, and then show just how long it takes johnny to end his animation.
Click to expand...
Good find man!
 
A

AskMeLater

Noob
hmmm thats weird it would make sense as to why i was able to punish it repeatedly i was crouching the first hit of 113.
I can't argue with the video its right there in front of me I guess you can make it safe.
Thats such a weird condition though.
 
MadeOfMetal

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
Alphabattack said:
With what? Because I can block Tempest Kung Lao's EX Spin, and I thought that was the fastest move in the game.
Click to expand...
im pretty sure tempest isn't the fastest special in the game. reptile, cassie, jax, subzero comes to mind, and im pretty sure mileenas roll is 8frame startup, up close it should be faster
 
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