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Strategy - Commando I Think it's Time to Re-evaluate Commando

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
So amidst the doom and gloom here, I notice the general consensus seems to be that Commando is still unviable trash and is akin to picking Dan or Sean and giving up against the opponent. To be fair, I thought this to be the case as well, even despite the buffs that were given in the Predator patch. Lately, however, I took a look again, and perhaps I may have misinterpreted what those buffs did to Kano's overall game.

I have a video here, a little visual aid that will help explain what I mean (Also, I recomend turning the sound off, something glitched in the Upload Studio and the sound is way off. Plus, you can just make the sounds yourself as you watch! Fun!)

http://1drv.ms/1GyeKaI

So what I'm going through here is the options, the meta game, if you will (RIP Dusty), that follows the newly safe choke on block. A disclaimer: despite my blocking the f4 xx choke standing, I assure you that it jails on block, as choke does in almost all of Kano's strings.

So we can see here in the video that EN Upball done after choke is a pretty safe option. It will beat pokes, even d4's that go a little low, foward, neutral and back jump, and even a reversal backdash (One could still backdash, but it can't be reversal timing, has to be a bit delayed). Both Spin and EN Spin, which are probably some of the fastest specials in the game, lose to EN Spin, with a bad trade for Kung Lao since both hits knock him out of the armor. Even if you crouch block, you'll see that you're close enough to where EN Upball will hit twice on crouch block, keeping you at the -5.

I also explore some of the other options after choke. You'll see command grab will beat pokes and throw, but will whiff on certain strings due to them being unthrowable. EN Spin will also trade, a bad trade for Kano since it will only do 1%. Slower armored moves may not have the same trade, so play with it and see what you can find. Lastly, I show Parry and EN Parry, which are 4 and 2 frames, respectively. Choke being -4, it's almost the perfect setup to use a Parry, and you can see that most normal moves will lose to the regular one, with only Spin needing an EN Parry.

Using the new Upball and Choke, Kano can not only safely get up in many scenarios, but also build extensive meter on block, which is something he could not do very well before. Not only that, but the Choke, even on block, has a little game going on after it that has a lot of ins and outs and will require guesswork on the part of both opponents. Another neat trick you can do is use Choke and bank on the opponent holding crouch block, which opens up D4 xx Rib Breaker. This is an unjumpable tick, and can only be escaped by armor or backdash on a strong read.

I don't have a video for it, but let's also take into account how this affects his own getup game. As the bellyaching in the forum shows, EN Upball can be crouched at certain ranges and will whiff the second hit, which is supposed to make it safe on block. To do this, the opponent has to crouch at a certain range and block. There are two flaws to this, however; 1) You're gonna let Kano just get up and probably use his great backdash to get out of dodge and therefore avoid a precious Okizume (TM) moment, and 2) Crouch blocking at the range to make Upball whiff makes you prey to Rib Breaker, which will reach at that distance and knock you on your ass. You could crouch a little farther back, I suppose, but I'm not sure how well you can pressure your opponent on knockdown at that distance.

There are still flaws to his gameplan. I have no doubt Commando Kano gets zoned out pretty harshly, due to his terrible jump and lack of long mid range pokes besides f4 and d4. I also have no doubt that his damage is low, and only gets into the 30's after a hit confirm into EN Cannon Ball. He also requires quite a bit of guesswork, and none of his options are absolutely foolproof.

I don't think this is broke, or probably even top tier. It's probably a mid tier character, but the point is the variation now works as a cohesive unit and can probably place given the right player. All it needed was the tools to work properly, and I think with those two buffs, minimal as they were, Commando Kano got some really nice things to work with.

Discuss, fellas!

Edit: I also don't mean to insult those who have been using Commando Kano for awhile now, for which this discussion is no doubt day 1 stuff. I'm merely trying to provide a visual aid against a strong defensive character and how the Commando options work even against top tier options. It's good to revisit the basics every now and again!
 

DFC

Cutthroat Truther
I always held the opinion that commando was viable, but could do with that developer love. And choke does whiff on top many low blocking hitboxes, even after strings
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
I'm not a fan of saying a character sucks, but Commando sucks. He's a grappler that works much better defensively than offensively and that's his biggest problem IMO.

Do I want him to get buffed? Probably not, it would hard to buff him in a way that doesn't make him too good since NRS doesn't know how to make grapplers. God bless all you Commando Kano's who are sticking with him.
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
See, I ENJOY being a defensive grappler, that's just the difference.
Good for you and that's nice and all, but this game is heavily favors offense and commando Kano's slow methodical gameplay doesn't work well in a game where 90% tournament matches happen in less than 7 minutes( btw Zyphox vs Sonic fox was finished in under 4 minutes even with Zyphox brainstorming after he lost the first game).

He's just a character that happens to be in the wrong game. Both Commando and Cybernetic would be so good in USF4 lol.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Some of this is known but good to see visuals, especially for those who don't apply some this. Like Doug said though Choke has that oh so fun whiff at times which kinda sucks. After the EVO usages I think people will start trying out Commando more now. Hopefully to some dirty play.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Both Spin and EN Spin, which are probably some of the fastest specials in the game, lose to EN Spin, with a bad trade for Kung Lao since both hits knock him out of the armor.

Using the new Upball and Choke, Kano can not only safely get up in many scenarios, but also build extensive meter on block, which is something he could not do very well before...I don't have a video for it, but let's also take into account how this affects his own getup game. As the bellyaching in the forum shows, EN Upball can be crouched at certain ranges and will whiff the second hit, which is supposed to make it safe on block.
Well that's all well and good for the Kung Lao mirror but what about Kano? :DOGE

Also I don't know if you mistyped or not but crouch blocking EX Upball makes it UNsafe, it's -5 as is if both hits actually connect. His getup game isn't the greatest because of this.
 

FlappyDaniel

Snappin' spines all day e'ry day.
Yeah, the timing on cancelling the ball fast enough AND dashing + jumping is pretty tight, I can't get it 100% either.
 
I almost made evo top 64 (1 game away) with commando kano only. I feel like I could have won the two matches I won easily if i had more MU knowledge and more patience. He's a good character... could use a few minor buffs but overall he has good tools. d3/d4 command grab OS keeps this character viable imo.

Regarding upball after choke, it is good... but only against some characters. Some characters the second hit whiffs against crouch block... so it is pretty much unusable against them. Also 10/12% for 1 bar and full screen positioning is really bad against characters that can zone kano out... so you don't really want to use it against them either.
 

DavS13

Noob
If he could tick throw off one or two more strings I think he would be super good...Right now the only one he can do this is off of F33 and that string is very unreliable, Erron has so many, and even sungod kotal has two.

Mixups with his choke and command grab off those would make him pretty strong IMO.
 

IMakeItL00kC00L

Do not provoke a god
Im so glad someone posted this. In the hands of a fundamentally strong player commando kano can be good imo. I've picked up commando kano and i really enjoy playing him and I believe there is potential to be fleshed out in this variation
 

tatterbug4

Bug of tater's
Bottom 10 is midtier lol
Theirs like 30 or so characters I go by top 10, mid, bottom 10.

Im just saying the creator of the thread said kano was unviable. I gave him proof all characters are viable. Some just have to work a lot harder to win.