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Guide - Swarm Queen How D'vorah's wasp grenade cancels work and to properly do them

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
It seems like lots of people having trouble with the cancels so I'll try to make it clear how they work:

How to do the string:
this is really easy you have plenty of time to hit 212 after the cancel. it doesn't matter how fast you cancel there is no delay time in that string so it works both ways, dialing the string very fast or dialing the string slow and patient

Frame Data:
f11,wgc (On Block) = ~ -1/-2 (safe on block)
f11,wgc (On hit) = +30/+32 = ~ +31

Can be canceled into:
212 (easy)
f22 (easy)
112 (easy)
f44/f42 (easy)
f11 (easy)
b1 (moderate)

How to do the string:
f22 has a longer animation and slower startup than f11 thus you have to delay the cancel after the wasp grenade input a little bit. it's basically the same motion as f11 BUT the difference is that if you try to cancel the wap grenade to fast d'vorah will just throw the bug instead of canceling. f22 has good hit advantage so you don't have to hurry that much with 212 but you need to be faster than with f11 though. may be weird at first but it's really not that hard.

Frame data:

f22,wgc (on Block) = 0/+2 = ~ +1
f22,wgc (on hit) = +24/+28= ~ +26

Can be linked into:

212 (easy)
f11 (easy)
112 (easy)
f44/f42 (easy)
f22 (moderate)
b1 (moderate)

How the string works:

so this string seems to be the pure horror for people who are new to d'vorah. the key is NOT to just dial the string. this again will end up in just throwing the bug instead of canceling. this string is a mixture of delaying the run cancel until you can see the bug coming out, then run cancel the wg and press 212 as soon as possible. this string requires some practise so to make life easier to you I suggest to learn this step by step by the following :

1. just do 112,wg withouth canceling it and hold the bug. most if the time this string is messed up by not being patient and trying to cancel to early. you HAVE to get that feeling down in your muscle memory this is more important than connecting with 212 since you can at least do some pressure kind of.

2. try to do wgc,212 as fast as possible. it's important that you do 212 as soon as it is possible after you run cancel the bug. this is not only important for this string but for d'vorah in general especially for f112,wgc,2 since you won't jail your opponent if you can't do that motion and you'll eat unnecessary punishes.

3. now do the whole string in one. don't confuse yourself but rely on that timing you practised and (hopefully) saved in your muscle memory.

Frame data:

112,wgc (on block) = +2/+4 = ~ +3
112,wgc (on hit) = +20/+22 = ~ +21

Can be linked into:
212 (hard)
112 (hard)
f11 (very hard)
b1 (very hard)

How to do the string:

now this called the hardest wgc by most of the d'vorah players but imo it's harder to do consistently f112,wgc,f112,wgc,f112,ovi on block. now the the hard part about this is not the delay since it's so little (or even non-existent) that this won't be your problem probably. Problem 1 for me is that d'vorah don't even do the wasp grenade and just do b1. to prevent that this wgc is the only one were I don't slide my thumb but only do clear inputs that means: b,1,d,f,1. now the 2nd problem is that you release 1 without even cancel the run because your mind is so messed up by pressing 5 direction buttons in less than a second. not like the other wgc's this one feels really unnatural for me. the only thing that helps here is practise the timing. problem 3 is just that you have to input everything extremly fast. but in my opinion the hardest part is do get the grenade out consistently after that it's cake.

Frame data:

b1,wgc (on block) = -4
b1,wgc (on hit) = +20/+22 = ~ +21

Can be linked into:

212 (hard)
112 (very hard)

How to do the string:

there is nothing to say about this really other than f112,wgc needs to be delayed a lot. it's easy to cancel into 2 but other strings can be harder. It's kinda stupid that the timing is different on block but it's basically jst delaying the cancel a lot. be patient, look at the bug coming out and then you can cancel into another string safely.

Frame data:

f112,wgc (on block) = +14 ( If done perfectly), +12 otherwise
 
Last edited:

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
Very nice and helpful post, useful not only to newcomers but to us day 1 mains as well. You're so right about the b1 wc in her other 2 variations I can easily do her b1 df1 but in SQ I somehow end up doing only b1 lol
If only 112 had the same cancel window as b1 things would have been so much better. Even though it's seen worse with that 1f window in that summer patch :p
yeah b1 is so weird I don't know why they did an other timing in swarm queen than in venomous and brood mother. I usually don't even do it that much since b1 has so little reach. There was a time where I tried to do it mid pressure with f112,wgc,b1,wgc,full combo but I ended up not using it anymore that way because most of the time I couldn't even get out the bug lol. Now I only use it at the wall after f112,wgc,2 jail or after a throw reset. It also feels more consistent from Right to left for me for some reason.

I'm still thinking that after the hotfix the timing to link 212 after b1,wgc ins't that tight anymore. It feels like you have a little bit more time after the cancel. Someone should test that out if it's the same for him so that I can be sure that I'm not crazy lol.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
great post, i feel this will help many new D'Vorah players grasp her easier now, with this to guide them. glad someone put the time to show this to new players:)

D'vorah has always been easy for me. but i understand how others can have problems with her many different cancel times;)
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
great post, i feel this will help many new D'Vorah players grasp her easier now, with this to guide them. glad someone put the time to show this to new players:)

D'vorah has always been easy for me. but i understand how others can have problems with her many different cancel times;)
yeah for me she wasn't hard to learn as well I played marksman erron for quite a long time and imo her cancels just feel way more natural to do.

If you guys have anything to add feel free to tell me so I'll edit the OP then.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
yeah for me she wasn't hard to learn as well I played marksman erron for quite a long time and imo her cancels just feel way more natural to do.

If you guys have anything to add feel free to tell me so I'll edit the OP then.
you should make a list of Formulas for:

like a working list for moves canceled into specials and what they are on block!

like eddys formula he shared with me:

Startup + Active + Recovery - Cancel = Cancel Result
Cancel Result - Hit Advantage = Cancel advantage on hit
Cancel Result - Block Advantage = Cancel Advantage on Block

like 112 into db4
and how to calculate 112/F11 into df1RC into all of the following: 212/B12/F22/U+3/F42 or F24/1+3


I feel that would hewlp them alot if someone made a working list. id help OFC with anyone willing to put this on Threads
 

Rey

Reycier
Nice guide @Blewdew ;)
You got the frame data for the wgc's?
I think after the f112 wgc you are +12
But how is it with the other strings?
 

stamatis

Όσα δε φτάνει η αλεπού. ........
This is a very nice guide but we must explain that everything except f112wgc can be armoured through!!
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
Thanks for the replies guys

@ESG Jagged this is a great idea. Would you help me with the calcs?

@Rey hey man year f112,wgc is at least +12 I believe. But like @stamatis said on block every other wgc on block can be armored through. I guess most of them are slighty - since they're still safe so I suggest when your f22 wgc get blocked cancel into low block that way you can punish reversals. When esg jagged wants to help me with the calcs you can get some frame Information though.
 
Reactions: Rey

Israfel

Designer for BxA
It seems like lots of people having trouble with the cancels so I'll try to make it clear how they work:

How to do the string:
this is really easy you have plenty of time to hit 212 after the cancel. it doesn't matter how fast you cancel there is no delay time in that string so it works both ways, dialing the string very fast or dialing the string slow and patient

Frame Data:
f11,wgc (On Block) = -4/-6 = ~ -5 (safe on block)
f11,wgc (On hit) = +30/+32 = ~ +31

Can be canceled into:
212 (easy)
f22 (easy)
112 (easy)
f44/f42 (easy)
f11 (easy)
b1 (moderate)

How to do the string:
f22 has a longer animation and slower startup than f11 thus you have to delay the cancel after the wasp grenade input a little bit. it's basically the same motion as f11 BUT the difference is that if you try to cancel the wap grenade to fast d'vorah will just throw the bug instead of canceling. f22 has good hit advantage so you don't have to hurry that much with 212 but you need to be faster than with f11 though. may be weird at first but it's really not that hard.

Frame data:

f22,wgc (on Block) = 0/+2 = ~ +1
f22,wgc (on hit) = +24/+28= ~ +26

Can be linked into:

212 (easy)
f11 (easy)
112 (easy)
f44/f42 (easy)
f22 (moderate)
b1 (moderate)

How the string works:

so this string seems to be the pure horror for people who are new to d'vorah. the key is NOT to just dial the string. this again will end up in just throwing the bug instead of canceling. this string is a mixture of delaying the run cancel until you can see the bug coming out, then run cancel the wg and press 212 as soon as possible. this string requires some practise so to make life easier to you I suggest to learn this step by step by the following :

1. just do 112,wg withouth canceling it and hold the bug. most if the time this string is messed up by not being patient and trying to cancel to early. you HAVE to get that feeling down in your muscle memory this is more important than connecting with 212 since you can at least do some pressure kind of.

2. try to do wgc,212 as fast as possible. it's important that you do 212 as soon as it is possible after you run cancel the bug. this is not only important for this string but for d'vorah in general especially for f112,wgc,2 since you won't jail your opponent if you can't do that motion and you'll eat unnecessary punishes.

3. now do the whole string in one. don't confuse yourself but rely on that timing you practised and (hopefully) saved in your muscle memory.

Frame data:

112,wgc (on block) = +2/+4 = ~ +3
112,wgc (on hit) = +20/+22 = ~ +21

Can be linked into:
212 (hard)
112 (hard)
f11 (very hard)
b1 (very hard)

How to do the string:

now this called the hardest wgc by most of the d'vorah players but imo it's harder to do consistently f112,wgc,f112,wgc,f112,ovi on block. now the the hard part about this is not the delay since it's so little (or even non-existent) that this won't be your problem probably. Problem 1 for me is that d'vorah don't even do the wasp grenade and just do b1. to prevent that this wgc is the only one were I don't slide my thumb but only do clear inputs that means: b,1,d,f,1. now the 2nd problem is that you release 1 without even cancel the run because your mind is so messed up by pressing 5 direction buttons in less than a second. not like the other wgc's this one feels really unnatural for me. the only thing that helps here is practise the timing. problem 3 is just that you have to input everything extremly fast. but in my opinion the hardest part is do get the grenade out consistently after that it's cake.

Frame data:

b1,wgc (on block) = -4
b1,wgc (on hit) = +20/+22 = ~ +21

Can be linked into:

212 (hard)
112 (very hard)

How to do the string:

there is nothing to say about this really other than f112,wgc needs to be delayed a lot. it's easy to cancel into 2 but other strings can be harder. It's kinda stupid that the timing is different on block but it's basically jst delaying the cancel a lot. be patient, look at the bug coming out and then you can cancel into another string safely.

Frame data:

f112,wgc (on block) = +14 ( If done perfectly), +12 otherwise
Great work. Thanks for putting the time in. I play venomous but I may give this variation a shot now.
 

Israfel

Designer for BxA
Thank you. You should definitely give this variation a shot it is so fun and good when you have the cancels down.
I'll put work into after this weekend. Gotta focus everything I have on Quan for a tournament I'm hosting on Saturday. If your on PSN hit me up. The_Israfel
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
I'll put work into after this weekend. Gotta focus everything I have on Quan for a tournament I'm hosting on Saturday. If your on PSN hit me up. The_Israfel
I hope everything goes well for you. I'll add you the following days.
 

stamatis

Όσα δε φτάνει η αλεπού. ........
@ESG Jagged
@Rey
@Sindelia
@stamatis
@BMartin

Guide has been completly reworked. thanks to ESG Jagged the guide now includes frame data for every wgc on block and on hit and in what string you can cancel those strings. since I can only record at 30fps the frame datas can vary between the numbers I wrote down. I recorded them multiple times so I can't get them more accurate than that.
Nicely done!
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
Is there a trick to getting the cancels online?
As long as the connection isn't too bad you should not have problems doing them online. F11,wgc and f22,wgc work even with kinda bad Connection but f112,wgc,2 won't jail anymore and 112,wgc is also almost impossible with bad connection.

The timing is pretty much the same as offline but if you want a life saving tip I'd suggest Go practise step 2 from the 112,wgc guide. The more you're able to cancel the run cancel into 212 as fast as possible the more sucess you'll have with her cancels in general
 

Rey

Reycier
I personally have problems to do the cancels on block for pressure.
Like blewdew said it's hard to jail the 2 after f112 wgc
Most of the time the opponents just duck and the 2 wiffs.
F22 wgc on block feels week online but it depends on connection.
Very sad that the online play is very fucked up most of the time.
Specially for the characters with hard execution like cancels or something like that.

@Blewdew we have to train more online ;)

Nice thread here!
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
I personally have problems to do the cancels on block for pressure.
Like blewdew said it's hard to jail the 2 after f112 wgc
Most of the time the opponents just duck and the 2 wiffs.
F22 wgc on block feels week online but it depends on connection.
Very sad that the online play is very fucked up most of the time.
Specially for the characters with hard execution like cancels or something like that.

@Blewdew we have to train more online ;)

Nice thread here!
sure man. Still need to get a headset lol it's hard to find time beside university.

when the opponent ducks after f112,wgc,2 you have to change your string you're using after f112.

1. f112,wgc,d4,swarm -> d4 jails after wgc as well and on hit swarm is garantued. on block you shouldn't use swarm or hope that your opponent isn't reversal happy.

2. f112,wgc,f22,wgc, Combo/block -> kinda risky since the opponent can reversal out of wgc,f22 but we're talking about ducking people so this string is really great to mix things up. when f22 is blocked cancel into block since it's safe and you can punish the opponents reversal.

3. f112,wgc,f112 (when you're good at conversations use f11 ex wg on hit and f112,wgc on block) -> not as dirty as pre patch since it doesn't jail anymore but when you know the opponent wants you to whiff 2 you can get a full combo 1 bar/43%-45%.
 
Reactions: Rey

Rey

Reycier
Seriously...
The last few days I have extremely problems with d'vorah online.
Is it me or is the connection even worse than before?
Maybe Im playing too many offline?
What are ur experience online with d'vorah?